Loads for a 2X4 shoot

[Sasquatch-1]

The range I belong to has a monthly 2X4 shoot (cut a 2X4 in half with you bullets) I am just wondering, for cutting wood is slow and heavy better then fast and light? (No, comments about chainsaws and axes please :p) I really need to know because I plan on taking a SBH up against a lot of 1911's.

[Milsurp Junkie]

Two 45 caliber round balls w/ piano wire in between? It worked for clearing the rigging and sailors off the deck of ships...

[frnkeore]

I did some testing on 2x4's back in the 80's. In muzzle loading we had what we called a "stake shoot" a speed event with teams of about five. We of course used round balls.

I built a 62 caliber just for it and tested velocity. About 600 fps was best. 900 fps just punched a 62 cal hole, when the velocity was lowered it started spiliting out the back side. A round ball or two might work well, too. You might also try loading your pure lead bullets backwards so, you have the full caliber flat base to hit the 2x4.

Frank

[Sgt Petro]

+1 on what frnkeore said.

[bigboredad]

I would shoot a wadcutter at about 850 like frnkore the faster bullets will just cut a nice clean hole slower will do more damage and you will have a faster recovery time to help compete against the 1911's

[Sasquatch-1]

I would shoot a wadcutter at about 850 like frnkore the faster bullets will just cut a nice clean hole slower will do more damage and you will have a faster recovery time to help compete against the 1911's

I was actually thinking subsonic. About 700 fps. I have a 310 grn semi wadcutter that I can make for the 44. I am waiting for some zinc gas checks that get swaged to the bottom while forming the bullet.

[429421Cowboy]

I was actually thinking subsonic. About 700 fps. I have a 310 grn semi wadcutter that I can make for the 44. I am waiting for some zinc gas checks that get swaged to the bottom while forming the bullet.

Seems like that would be a load with some serious "push" and not much muzzle flip, should tear wood up pretty good!

[bigboredad]

That should work pretty good with lots of splinters and more tearing of the wood rather than cutting it

[frnkeore]

I think the 310 gr will have to much sectional density and will punch through w/o spliting out the back. You want something that will deform and flaten out, as much as possible. Try loading your lightest bullet backwards using as light a reliable (you don't want it sticking in the barrel) load of B'eye as you can find data for. The more it deforms on the front side the more it will split out the back.

Frank

[RobS]

Expanding HP will give it to you best or the largest meplat bullet you have cast of soft alloy. You won't need too much velocity to punch through a 2X4 if the weight is up around 250+ grains. I've firelapped with a 340 grain LFN style (75% meplat) in my 45 cal revolvers and with the bullet just making it out of the barrel it will start to split a 2X4 in 4-5 shots from about 6 inches away so it doesn't take much velocity with a heavy slug.

[Plate plinker]

Big and slow is the way to go.

[NLS1]

Funny you mention this. Last time out I happened to bring some 2x4 scraps.

With my slow 44 load of 8 gr unique, which from what I can tell is like 800-850 fps, it split them little chunks in two like I jammed a fire cracker in the middle. Now these were only like 8" long pieces of 2x4 so not sure how that changes things, but boy did those little pieces explode!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Dan

[Sasquatch-1]

I think the 310 gr will have to much sectional density and will punch through w/o spliting out the back. You want something that will deform and flaten out, as much as possible. Try loading your lightest bullet backwards using as light a reliable (you don't want it sticking in the barrel) load of B'eye as you can find data for. The more it deforms on the front side the more it will split out the back.

Frank

I will be using dead soft lead with a WADCUTTER bullet. I can adjust the weight down but can't go up due to a lack of a core mold any heavier. The final bullet will be swaged with a zinc washer type gascheck. I have thought about stacking two cores together to see what would happen.

I am just looking for the most destruction I can get out of this mainly because I will be using SIX bullets to do what others are doing with six mags.

BTW, the targets are 12' away.

[Plate plinker]

Funny you mention this. Last time out I happened to bring some 2x4 scraps.

With my slow 44 load of 8 gr unique, which from what I can tell is like 800-850 fps, it split them little chunks in two like I jammed a fire cracker in the middle. Now these were only like 8" long pieces of 2x4 so not sure how that changes things, but boy did those little pieces explode!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Dan

Small pieces will do that, just ask any carpenter.

[NLS1]

Small pieces will do that, just ask any carpenter.

Yep, that's kinda what's figured.

So these 2x4 shoots, what are the rules?

Dan

[Sasquatch-1]

Yep, that's kinda what's figured.

So these 2x4 shoots, what are the rules?

Dan

A 3 to 4 foot piece of 2x4 is placed in a holder. The 2x4 must be reduced to half of its original size. ( Most end up completely splintered) A competitor can use as much ammo as he wishes. It's a timed event and can have two people per team. Two classes, 22 rimfire and everything else. I don't think rifles are permited. A .25acp could conceivably compete agains a S & W 500. Another fellow and I were considering taking Super Blackhawks in which would be at a real disadvantage against the semi's. :Fire:

[smlekid]

I tried double stacked 75gr BNWC in my 357 worked like a charm 1 cylinder 12 boolits!!!!
it tore them up reall nice used tehm in an open wood chop event

[Sasquatch-1]

I tried double stacked 75gr BNWC in my 357 worked like a charm 1 cylinder 12 boolits!!!!
it tore them up reall nice used tehm in an open wood chop event

I actually swaged a few similar bullets last night. Plan on loading and taking them out to test later.

[NLS1]

A 3 to 4 foot piece of 2x4 is placed in a holder. The 2x4 must be reduced to half of its original size. ( Most end up completely splintered) A competitor can use as much ammo as he wishes. It's a timed event and can have two people per team. Two classes, 22 rimfire and everything else. I don't think rifles are permited. A .25acp could conceivably compete agains a S & W 500. Another fellow and I were considering taking Super Blackhawks in which would be at a real disadvantage against the semi's. :Fire:

Sounds like fun I gotta find one of these shoots, it sounds like a good time and a good challenge!

Boy it sure seems like accuracy would be king, along with a wide meplat, and then capacity and and then cartridge speed(which probably makes slower better!). 3.5" wide isn't that big under pressure, especially when the board starts to get widdled away.

Keep us posted!
Dan

[Sasquatch-1]

Sounds like fun I gotta find one of these shoots, it sounds like a good time and a good challenge!

Boy it sure seems like accuracy would be king, along with a wide meplat, and then capacity and and then cartridge speed(which probably makes slower better!). 3.5" wide isn't that big under pressure, especially when the board starts to get widdled away.

Keep us posted!
Dan

Watched two guys dump about 100 45 acp's and still not finish the board off.

Another guy cut it in half using a .22 rimfire and got two pieces about the same length.

Best time for the large caliber was around 50 seconds.

[frnkeore]

The way you shoot a stake shoot is to cut about 3/4 or more of it, then you shoot the highest point on the 2x4 to snap it off. So it has the leverage to break it off. You start fairly low on the board so the high shot has the most leverage. T^his is where the low velocity also helps.

Frank

[shooterg]

What distance do y'all beat the boards up at ?

[Sasquatch-1]

What distance do y'all beat the boards up at ?

10 yards.

I went to the range with a selection of bullets. I had some cast bullet that I swaged into double projectiles. They may have worked if they were not all over the place. The 310 grn with a real light load of 2400 (don't remember exactly what I put in there right now) seem to expand well. But I found that my standard 240 grn soft point with 10 grns unique seem to work just as well.

Unfortunately, with the rules at my range I cannot set up 2x4 myself and shoot them. Has to be a board sanctioned shoot.

[NLS1]

10 yards.

I went to the range with a selection of bullets. I had some cast bullet that I swaged into double projectiles. They may have worked if they were not all over the place. The 310 grn with a real light load of 2400 (don't remember exactly what I put in there right now) seem to expand well. But I found that my standard 240 grn soft point with 10 grns unique seem to work just as well.

Unfortunately, with the rules at my range I cannot set up 2x4 myself and shoot them. Has to be a board sanctioned shoot.

Interesting you mention the lighter load, I wondered about that, it seems the heavier and faster they are, maybe they would just hole punch the 2x4, instead of slow down and rip chunks out the back.

"Board" sanctioned, very punny! :grin:

[Sasquatch-1]

Interesting you mention the lighter load, I wondered about that, it seems the heavier and faster they are, maybe they would just hole punch the 2x4, instead of slow down and rip chunks out the back.

"Board" sanctioned, very punny! :grin:

Believe me there was no pun intended when I wrote this. If I had realized what I had said I would have played it up better.

I did recover a couple of slugs that looked like they cam from the 45's a lot of guys were using. They were a semi wadcutter style and had almost NO distortion what so ever after going through the board and the dirt.

[MT Gianni]

Another fellow and I were considering taking Super Blackhawks in which would be at a real disadvantage against the semi's. :Fire:

It depends on the rules. If you start with all ammo in the boxes you could do alright. If the match director lets them start with four or five loaded mags you just lost. Cap and ball bp with a slight crossing breeze and a few loaded cylinders would be fun.

[docmagnum357]

A .40 smith and wesson case will work in a >44 mag. Fill it with shot, weigh it, and load conservatively for the weight. GLASER like performance. I know flks who use a .40 case filled with lead as a jacketed wadcutter. THe shot will destroy the 2x4.

[Sasquatch-1]

A .40 smith and wesson case will work in a >44 mag. Fill it with shot, weigh it, and load conservatively for the weight. GLASER like performance. I know flks who use a .40 case filled with lead as a jacketed wadcutter. THe shot will destroy the 2x4.

I have some 300+ grn soft points that I am going to try. The ones I have recovered have expanded to double or triple in size, some even bigger. If I can hit the parts of the board that are left and do it with six shots I might have a chance.

[bigboredad]

A .40 smith and wesson case will work in a >44 mag. Fill it with shot, weigh it, and load conservatively for the weight. GLASER like performance. I know flks who use a .40 case filled with lead as a jacketed wadcutter. THe shot will destroy the 2x4.

That is very cool idea do they have to anneal the brass case first?

[Blammer]

I would anneal it first to make it soft, and I'd shoot 5 and then the 6th hit the top of the board to break it off.

[Sasquatch-1]

I would anneal it first to make it soft, and I'd shoot 5 and then the 6th hit the top of the board to break it off.

Already well annealed. I actually filled the case to weight with lead and then heated the case cherry red to melt the lead. The ones I have recovered have shown very good results.

Now as for the second part of your post, you ARE assuming that I am able to HIT the board with the first five. [smilie=1:

[1Shirt]

Back when I was shooting front stuffers we occaisionaly had stake shoots. From experiance, I can tell you that a 58 Mini Ball does great damabe to a stake/2x4 etc. And if it will shoot accurately, a Mini backwards is the biggest durn hollow point you will ever see, and will most definately take down a 2x4, or most anything else within range. Only takes about 50 gr. of 2FF.
1Shirt!

[fcvan]

I used to shoot stakes with an 1858 Remington copy. The soft round ball weighing 140+ grains did more damage than 148 grain .38 wadcutters. I also shot an old fender with a 125 grain LRN 9mm which put a 3/8" hole. The 44 round ball put a 1/2" hole and pushed the fender in 3". Load some soft round balls in your 44. The 2x4 will be shredded more quickly as the ball really flattens out on impact. Frank

[bob208]

.38 hallow base wad cutters loaded backwards. it is also a good defense load. makes a real big hallow point.

the same could be done if you had a mould for the old a-r hallow base bullet.

[Hogdaddy]

Full DE wadcutter Would Do wood Good :redneck:
H/D

[Sasquatch-1]

Went to the 2x4 shoot today. Although I didn't come close to winning (winning time was 42 seconds by 2 guys, 1 with a 45 and the other a .22 rimfire, team) I did gain some very valuble information.

I used the .44 mag loaded with 310 grn soft points with 6.5 grns unique. The preverbial slow moving freight train. I was also using a Ruger SBH gate loader against semi's with magazines. I did shoot with a partner who was using a 45 with ball ammo. He would hit the target and it would rock a little. I would hit and you could see large splinters coming off.

We did not succesfully cut the 2x4 in half. It took 3 minutes 10 seconds to shoot up our ammo. During this time I did manage to get off 24 shots. I beleive my partner used 5 mags during the time. I don't think that is to bad for having to dump each bullet singly and reload the same way.

Here are some pics of what remained of the 2x4.

[Old Coot]

Sasquatch, From looking at your 2x4 picture I would have to say that most of the rounds never hit it. If you slow down and just hit the darn thing it will get cut into a lot faster. When I was shooting man on man steel (same set ups on both sides and shot at the same time, first one finished wins) the faster I went the behinder I got. When I finally slowed down and just hit the targets nobody could believe how fast I had suddenly gotten. Brodie

[Sasquatch-1]

Sasquatch, From looking at your 2x4 picture I would have to say that most of the rounds never hit it. If you slow down and just hit the darn thing it will get cut into a lot faster. When I was shooting man on man steel (same set ups on both sides and shot at the same time, first one finished wins) the faster I went the behinder I got. When I finally slowed down and just hit the targets nobody could believe how fast I had suddenly gotten. Brodie

I beleive that I hit at least half of my shots. This was my first attempt and I was shooting rather slow because I knew I had to land on target more then the other guys since it would take a LOT longer for me to reload. I am going to load up a box of half jacket full wadcutters for the next shoot. Probably in the 250 to 270 grain range.

BTW, the board was hanging on by a pencil width piece of wood. One more good shot would have ended it. Still would have had a lousy time but would have had satisfaction.

BLAMMER
The range officer running the shoot also told me the same thing that you did. after several shots shoot the top.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Had a friend of mine show me that it can be done with his 3rd gen. SAA using #454424 bullets cast out of WW and using 6 gr. Red Dot. On my range at the 100 yd frame an old 6" fence post sat. It took him 2 cylinders of ammo to do it, but he cut the post off just nice as can be. Robert

[Blammer]

I presume you had to cut it off near the red stripe?
If you 'swing' into the target from L to R, or R to L you may have a better horizontal pattern. just a thought.

[Blammer]

I'd have to use the one on the right in my 45acp if I were gonna try that competition. :)

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/blammer8mm/Cast%20boolits/DSCN7163.jpg

[Leadpot]

Many years ago I was plinking around an old weather beaten cabin. About half of it had collapsed. I was shooting an original Remington Army, this was before replicas, I shot 2x4 that was sticking up in the air and the ball came back hitting my trigger finger! It then skipped off the top of my shoulder, bounced off a piece of still standing wall and landed at my feet. I keep it in my dresser drawer as a reminder to always load with enough power to penetrate. I don't ever want to experience anything like that again. The scar on my finger has pretty much disappeared.
Bob

[Sasquatch-1]

I presume you had to cut it off near the red stripe?
If you 'swing' into the target from L to R, or R to L you may have a better horizontal pattern. just a thought.

You guys keep assuming I can hit what I shoot at! :groner:

I did try a new bullet Sat. it was a 250 grn dead soft lead full wadcutter. Can anyone guess what I was doing for about 2 hours afterwards?

[Forrest r]

You need the biggest hp you can find/make to be competitive in 2x4 shoots. A huge hp & velocities in the 800fps range will destroy a 2x4 in 12 shots or less. Ball, wc, & swc ammo just blows thru the board. They will cause some splintering in the back of the board on exit but the damage is noting to write home about (just look at your board).

Get some hp's and make the hp larger, x them with a knife, anything, just make them so they will expand quickly as soon as contact is made.

A couple of the best rounds/loads we used to use was 125g J-word hp's in 38spl x'd with a knife & loaded to 800fps and 180g j-word hp's in 44spl x'd with a knife & loaded to 800fps. These loads would clean a 2x4 in 12 shots or less, we used to chew thru the 2x4's in seconds not minutes.

On a side note we used to have 2x2 shoots with 22's. What a blast!!! A Paco Kelly 22 reshaping tool (hp) was the cat's meow along with x'ing the 22's also. A 22 with a huge hp & x'd with a knife will easily do better on 2x2's & 2x4's than a 45acp with ball ammo.:Fire:

[Sasquatch-1]

You need the biggest hp you can find/make to be competitive in 2x4 shoots. A huge hp & velocities in the 800fps range will destroy a 2x4 in 12 shots or less. Ball, wc, & swc ammo just blows thru the board. They will cause some splintering in the back of the board on exit but the damage is noting to write home about (just look at your board).

Get some hp's and make the hp larger, x them with a knife, anything, just make them so they will expand quickly as soon as contact is made.

A couple of the best rounds/loads we used to use was 125g J-word hp's in 38spl x'd with a knife & loaded to 800fps and 180g j-word hp's in 44spl x'd with a knife & loaded to 800fps. These loads would clean a 2x4 in 12 shots or less, we used to chew thru the 2x4's in seconds not minutes.

On a side note we used to have 2x2 shoots with 22's. What a blast!!! A Paco Kelly 22 reshaping tool (hp) was the cat's meow along with x'ing the 22's also. A 22 with a huge hp & x'd with a knife will easily do better on 2x2's & 2x4's than a 45acp with ball ammo.:Fire:


I have found that I am getting incredable expansion from the bullets I have been swaging with the dead soft lead. Of the bullets I have been able to recover from the range I am getting twice the expansion of the .45's Most of the .45's have not even lost their shape unless another bullet has hit them.

I was not able to recover any of the wadcutters because I could not tell which ones they were. There was nothing in what I recovered that even faintly resembled a wadcutter.

[Blammer]

put a few of these in each case. 2 projectiles per shot. :)

http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=134

well you'll have to find the 45 cal version. :)

[ktw]

put a few of these in each case. 2 projectiles per shot. :)

http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=37&products_id=134

well you'll have to find the 45 cal version. :)

You can make something similar on the cheap by running soft lead 440/445 round balls into a 452/454 die in a lube-sizer and applying enough pressure to swage them flat. Use different nose punches for a variety of nose shapes.

I hand lubed while experimenting with loading two and three in a case. Worked well enough for 10 yards.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g232/ktwna/45wadcutter.jpg

-ktw

[bigboredad]

You can make something similar on the cheap by running soft lead 440/445 round balls into a 452/454 die in a lube-sizer and applying enough pressure to swage them flat. Use different nose punches for a variety of nose shapes.

I hand lubed while experimenting with loading two and three in a case. Worked well enough for 10 yards.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g232/ktwna/45wadcutter.jpg

-ktw
ktw-
those are really cool it's amazing what casters and reloaders can come up with

[Blammer]

hmm, 12 hits on the board in 6 shots.... :)

(ok maybe 8 or 10 hits on the board...)