Lee says don't fix Glock bulged brass

[ghh3rd]

I have fixed many bulged .40 cases after the got the "Glock smile", and I know that others on this forum do the same. I was just surfing and stumbled on this at the Lee web site. It does sound logical, but... think it's just their way to sell something to fix the bulge, but cover their butt at the same time?

Per the Lee web site:


Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture.

[6mm250]

After they got the "Glock smile " I would consider them trash.


Mike

[EDK]

Do a search for bulge buster....IIRC someone makes a resizing die that you push the case all the way through to solve the GLOCK issues. Original problem was with 1911 pattern barrels and some HOT loads for IPSC space guns.

:redneck::cbpour:

[870TC]

I have the Redding carbide push through die for 40 cal, works great. Magma engineering makes a tool to do the same, Case master? I think is the name of it.

[runfiverun]

i believe the magma is a roll sizer.
lee is covering thier butt with that statement but ultimatly safety is up to you.
35-40k in your hand with a resquished [how many times?] piece of brass.

[softpoint]

Lee is correct.

[geargnasher]

So, either make swaged .45 bullets out of the bulged ones, or only fix them and fire them in fully-supported chambers with medium loads, that's my solution. I'm seeing less and less of the bulged stuff these days since manufacturers are redesigning their chambers and feed ramps.

Gear

[Jailer]

I hate to burst you guys bubble but the glock smile problem has not been "fixed". I've got 2 - 5 gallon pails of 40 brass in my garage right now all fired from gen 4 Glock 22's and I'd give anyone 5 bux to find one without a smile on it.

Having said that I would have no problem reloading any of this brass as long as your not trying to duplicate uber hot factory loads. Mild plinkers loaded to mid range load data would be just fine for this stuff loaded many times over.

A lot of talk goes on on this big ole interenets about the dangers of glock smile brass. Just like anything else a little common sense goes a long ways when working with the stuff.

[Plinkster]

I'd just fix it permanently and sell the glock lol

[fredj338]

As noted, the "Bulge Buster" does make the brass reloadable, but it has been weakened. IMO, GLocked brass is primarily reloaders pushing it too hard or factory's, like Fedral, using brass that is too soft. Either way, it should NOT be used for anything but low pressure loads.

[ghh3rd]

Either way, it should NOT be used for anything but low pressure loads.
That makes sense - still able to use it for low pressure reloads & reserve high pressure reloads for brass known to never have "smiled".

Thanks - Randy

[dragon813gt]

I find Lee's statement amusing since they're the one that makes the Bulge Buster kit. If you truly feel that it should not be reloaded then don't make the tools to fix it. But then they'd be out money so we know what truly motivates them.


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[Ausglock]

Here in Australia, We use once fired 40 S&W cases that have been fired in the Police force Glock 22. These cases are reformed to 357Sig (yes the neck is .5mm shorter) and used to load up to Major power factor for IPSC Standard Division.

I have Glock 35 with a 357Sig barrel in it that has fired these cases with numerous reloads of the original cases.

I and my fellow IPSCers have fired many 100 of thousands of these cases with no problems at all.

I even reload the 40 cases to use in the Factory 40 barrel for the G35. Again. the loads are Major power factor. Again.. no Issues at all.

I feel the Voodoo about Glock brass is a big myth.

[gofastman]

This picture is property of Yondering, I took it from the glocktalk site.

this is a .40 case that was very bulged, and then "bulge-busted", notice the thin spot.
once the brass has started to give, just because you can push it back doesnt mean its safe:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0543.jpg

[Wal']

Doesn't mean its not either. :bigsmyl2:

[troy_mclure]

I fired many thousands of rounds in my xd40 using glocks brass. Most from police range pick up.

[XWrench3]

This picture is property of Yondering, I took it from the glocktalk site.

i do not think that has been run thru a "bulge buster", as you can clearly see where the resizing has stopped, leaving the "thin"spot. i think that it had been run thru a standard sizer die. if it was rezied all the way thru (which is how a bulge buster works, that would not have had the step on the left side.
i do think that lee is "cya"ing themselves with their statement. but it make sense that a case stretched that far out, when pushed back, would not be as strong as it was when it left the factory as virgin brass. if the case was fired again, from the same gun, and ended up indexed the same *** it was the first time being shot. i am sure there is the potential for the brass to rupture. so the question is, "How lucky do you feel, punk" as Clint said. if you are shooting lite loads, you would most likely be fine. but full power loads, maybe not. i do not own a Glock. so i do not have to worry about any of that. i wonder if the aftermarket barrels for glocks have the same problem.

[ku4hx]

The only bulges I've ever had were from my S&W 1006 using new unfired Winchester cases and AA#7 powder. That was circa 1990 and since then I've had none I could see. And that's after ten of thousands of hand loads through my various Glocks.

I don't load max charges so maybe that has a something to do with it, but my Glock once fired cases are no different from any others. I say "any others" when in reality, easily 95% of my pistol loads are fired in Glocks: 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, 357 Sig and 45 ACP.

[softpoint]

I owned a public shooting range for several years, and have seen the Glock brass let go several times. Lee's theory on the brass is correct. All kinds of factors probably make the problem lesser or worse, including how big the chamber was in the pistol that fired the brass originally, the number of times it was reloaded, the level of the loads (hot or mild), and then the reloaded round would most likely have to be chambered indexed with thin spot in the same place as the original bulge. Of course if the brass is fired numerous times, and numerous bulges are ironed out, the chance of indexing the thin spot over the unsupported portion of the chamber increases.
My own 10mm Glock showed very little bulge with the factory barrel, did Glock recognize this and make the 10 with more support? I don't know, because I haven't seen enough examples of the 10 .
Don't load max loads if the brass you are using had significant bulges in it. Keep track of the number of times the brass is reloaded, I can't tell you how many times is safe, but once fired .40 brass is relatively cheap.Maybe consider a replacement barrel with more support. I put a replacement barrel in my 10mm, because 10 brass is not nearly so easy to come by, and I wanted to shoot loads that were up to hunting levels. Even though the factory barrel had minimal bulge I decided to replace it. And got a little better accuracy as well.
And, it isn't a major catastrophe if a case does let go for this reason, the ones I have seen just blew the magazine out of the pistol, one actually disassembled the magazine as well. Some folks will likely flinch for sometime after☺ I've also seen a pistol blow due to a double charge, and that is a quite different scenario.
In defense of the Glocks, they are pretty reliable, fairly light, decent accuracy(though some folks have trouble mastering the triggers) reasonably priced (compared to Sig, HK, or most 1911's) :lovebooli

[Wrbjr]

Hmmmm.... vewy intewesting....:coffeecom I have almost 3000 pieces of 40 brass from BullShop.... have not started processing it yet... (waiting on my new Thumler's). I suppose I will have a substantial number of these cases involved with the Glock smile.... so I have a couple of questions...

1. Since more than one model of Glock's have this "unsupported" issue... as I understand it... why is the Lee bulge Buster only available the .40 crowd? Would not the 9MM have the same situation? I would suspect there to be more 9MM out there with the :D than even the 40.....?

2. As I shoot 40 and 9... in a supported pistol....Springfield Xdm9 and Xdm40 I think I will be ok with moderate loads... I never run them hot anyway... does anyone out there have a good photo of this Glock Smile?

3. Has anyone ever put a Glock Smile into an L.E. Wilson gauge...? Results? Curiosity killed the cat.... but the cat just had to know....:popcorn:

[softpoint]

Hmmmm.... vewy intewesting....:coffeecom I have almost 3000 pieces of 40 brass from BullShop.... have not started processing it yet... (waiting on my new Thumler's). I suppose I will have a substantial number of these cases involved with the Glock smile.... so I have a couple of questions...

1. Since more than one model of Glock's have this "unsupported" issue... as I understand it... why is the Lee bulge Buster only available the .40 crowd? Would not the 9MM have the same situation? I would suspect there to be more 9MM out there with the :D than even the 40.....?

2. As I shoot 40 and 9... in a supported pistol....Springfield Xdm9 and Xdm40 I think I will be ok with moderate loads... I never run them hot anyway... does anyone out there have a good photo of this Glock Smile?

3. Has anyone ever put a Glock Smile into an L.E. Wilson gauge...? Results? Curiosity killed the cat.... but the cat just had to know....:popcorn:

The '40 is the culprit most of the time. It is a high pressure cartridge. The 9mm is too, and I have heard of the same thing happening with the 9, but I have never seen it. The 9mm smaller diameter may make it inherently a little stronger, and I suspect not as many people reload the 9, or at least at the range I had that seemed to be the case. I've not heard of an incident with the .45 caliber Glocks. The .45 is much lower pressure.
I just went and got several pieces of once fired .40 with a visible "Smile" and they won't go all the way into my Wilson gauge.

[ghh3rd]

I believe that the problem is much worse in .40 becuase of the higher pressure with this round.

[Wrbjr]

The '40 is the culprit most of the time. It is a high pressure cartridge. The 9mm is too, and I have heard of the same thing happening with the 9, but I have never seen it. The 9mm smaller diameter may make it inherently a little stronger, and I suspect not as many people reload the 9, or at least at the range I had that seemed to be the case. I've not heard of an incident with the .45 caliber Glocks. The .45 is much lower pressure.
I just went and got several pieces of once fired .40 with a visible "Smile" and they won't go all the way into my Wilson gauge.

I see... I have also tried to put a few pieces of unsized normal looking 40 brass into the L.E. Wilson and they only went in a short distance due to the fact they were not sized. Was yours resized?

I have pulled a few bags of loaded .40 and all glide beautifully into the L.E. Wilson... and luckily I see nothing that to my mind is a "smile" on any of them. Too many to be sure... can't spend all day looking through them... so inquiring mind here.....

[softpoint]

I was trying a few things while you were posting.
None of the fired .40 casings that had the telltale Glock firing pin mark would go into the gauge. I have a large bag of once fired range brass, and I looked at random examples, some had more visible bulges than others. All was fired from Glocks.
I picked up a piece of .40 brass by my shooting bench that was fired out of a Baby Eagle. It went all the way into the gauge.
I fired a fairly hot load with Blue dot powder out of my 10mm Glock with the aftermarket barrel (Fire Dragon) It went ALL the way into the gauge.
I admit to having 3 10mm's on hand. Glock, Kimber targetII, and a longslide I put together with a Fusion barrel. All of the samples from these 3 guns slid easily into the gauge. ( all brass was (UNSIZED)
As I said, there are other variables, even the different brands of brass. If someone wanted to, they could mike different brands of brass out of the same Glock chamber,just to see if there is any difference. Interesting, anyway

[ghh3rd]

My Glock once locked up tight with a round partially chambered. After using a large flat tip screwdriver wrapped in tape to pry the slide loose I found that the round had a small piece of 'something' between the case and bullet. Reliable gun with unreliable ammo = unreliable carry.

Now I test every round that I will be carrying with either my Wilson Gage or by dropping it into the chamber.

[softpoint]

My Glock onvr locked up tight with a round partially chambered. After using a large flat tip screwdriver wrapped in tape to pry the slide loose I found that the round had a small piece of 'something' between the case and bullet. Reliable gun with unreliable ammo = unreliable carry.

Now I test every round that I will be carrying with either my Wilson Gage or by dropping it into the chamber.
Good idea, I would probably spring for a box of new brass for carry loads. And still try each one in the gauge. I won't get into the much debated discussion of the "Don't carry handloads" crowd, because I do carry them in my CCW guns. Unless you live in a very socially challenged part of the country, 50 or 100 rounds of new brass should last quite a spell in your carry guns.:wink:

[softpoint]

I have pulled a few bags of loaded .40 and all glide beautifully into the L.E. Wilson... and luckily I see nothing that to my mind is a "smile" on any of them. Too many to be sure... can't spend all day looking through them... so inquiring mind here..

You have "ironed out" the bulge by resizing, but the brass could still be (and most likely is ) thinner where the bulge was.

[hardy]

Here in Australia, We use once fired 40 S&W cases that have been fired in the Police force Glock 22. These cases are reformed to 357Sig (yes the neck is .5mm shorter) and used to load up to Major power factor for IPSC Standard Division.

I have Glock 35 with a 357Sig barrel in it that has fired these cases with numerous reloads of the original cases.

I and my fellow IPSCers have fired many 100 of thousands of these cases with no problems at all.

I even reload the 40 cases to use in the Factory 40 barrel for the G35. Again. the loads are Major power factor. Again.. no Issues at all.

I feel the Voodoo about Glock brass is a big myth.

Hi,so the rumor about Ned Kelly wearing all that armor cause he carried a Glock is not true?Kaboom,LOL.Cheers,Mike

[Wrbjr]

My Glock once locked up tight with a round partially chambered. After using a large flat tip screwdriver wrapped in tape to pry the slide loose I found that the round had a small piece of 'something' between the case and bullet. Reliable gun with unreliable ammo = unreliable carry.

Now I test every round that I will be carrying with either my Wilson Gage or by dropping it into the chamber.

You got that right!!!:drinks:

[Wrbjr]

I was trying a few things while you were posting.
None of the fired .40 casings that had the telltale Glock firing pin mark would go into the gauge. I have a large bag of once fired range brass, and I looked at random examples, some had more visible bulges than others. All was fired from Glocks.
I picked up a piece of .40 brass by my shooting bench that was fired out of a Baby Eagle. It went all the way into the gauge.
I fired a fairly hot load with Blue dot powder out of my 10mm Glock with the aftermarket barrel (Fire Dragon) It went ALL the way into the gauge.
I admit to having 3 10mm's on hand. Glock, Kimber targetII, and a longslide I put together with a Fusion barrel. All of the samples from these 3 guns slid easily into the gauge. ( all brass was (UNSIZED)
As I said, there are other variables, even the different brands of brass. If someone wanted to, they could mike different brands of brass out of the same Glock chamber,just to see if there is any difference. Interesting, anyway

AHHHH! Tell me the tell tale sign of a Glock firing pin please.... that would be most helpful... anybody got a photo of this?

[Wrbjr]

You have "ironed out" the bulge by resizing, but the brass could still be (and most likely is ) thinner where the bulge was.

I thought a regular resizing die would not size far enough down the case to eliminate this bulge? Maybe I am not clear on it... when I finally see one I will probably see the light bulb go on....

[ghh3rd]

Guess I neglected to say that the round that jammed up my Glock was a factory load... cheap Blazer ammo, but a factory round. Actually all I carry is factory, but after that incident I drop all of them into the Wilson gage or the barfrel before I carry them.

[frankenfab]

AHHHH! Tell me the tell tale sign of a Glock firing pin please.... that would be most helpful... anybody got a photo of this?

Don't have a photo handy, but the mark is somewhat rectangular instead of round. I belive there are a couple other makes of pistols that make similar strike marks.

[Shiloh]

fix them and fire them in fully-supported chambers with medium loads, that's my solution. I'm seeing less and less of the bulged stuff these days since manufacturers are redesigning their chambers and feed ramps.

Gear

That would be my take. The only bulged cases I have found are the ones fired in Glock
.40 S&W chamberings. That is the only caliber that has ever ruptured for me.
I have had split cases in .38/.357 and .45 ACP, but these were longitudinal splits that never made it to the case head.

The .40S&W ruptured at the web, where the Glock Smile was.

Shiloh

[quasi]

is Lee the Glock of reloading tool makers or is Glock the Lee of firearms manufacture's, or both?

[Wrbjr]

Don't have a photo handy, but the mark is somewhat rectangular instead of round. I belive there are a couple other makes of pistols that make similar strike marks.

ok... thanks

[Shiloh]

I find Lee's statement amusing since they're the one that makes the Bulge Buster kit. If you truly feel that it should not be reloaded then don't make the tools to fix it. But then they'd be out money so we know what truly motivates them.


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Strictly a liability, CYA angle.

Firearms manufacturers do the same thing by voiding warranty's if reloaded ammo is used. THey usually say in the manual somewhere "The use or reloaded or remanufactured ammunition is highly discouraged. Many of us on this and other gun related forums have firearms that have never seen a factory round put through them

Shiloh

[Shiloh]

This picture is property of Yondering, I took it from the glocktalk site.

this is a .40 case that was very bulged, and then "bulge-busted", notice the thin spot.
once the brass has started to give, just because you can push it back doesnt mean its safe:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0543.jpg

That case does not look like it was run through a LEE or other carbide "Bulge Buster" sizer. It looks like a bulged case that was run through a standard resizer then cut in half. Hence the shear line.
If run through a sizer, there would be no lip (Smile) on the outside of the case, or distinctive mark on the inside.

SHiloh

[Plinkster]

I was under the impression that the bulge buster was to remove the bulge left just above the rim after resizing so the finished round doesn't appear wasp-waisted. It's not marketed as a cure for Glock bulge is it? All of my resized .40 has a slight bulge near the base just above the rim, after a boolit is seated it clearly has a wasp-waist to it. It's all been fired in my Berretta PX4 and doesn't have any discernible bulges or smiles after being shot in it.

[yondering]

That case does not look like it was run through a LEE or other carbide "Bulge Buster" sizer. It looks like a bulged case that was run through a standard resizer then cut in half. Hence the shear line.
If run through a sizer, there would be no lip (Smile) on the outside of the case, or distinctive mark on the inside.

SHiloh

Thought I'd better clear this up. Guys, the case in that picture was not sized in any way. That case is a cross section of a severe Glock smile, from my 10mm. Gofastman left out the second picture, which is a similarly smiled case that was run through the bulge buster. See below.

This doesn't have to be complicated: lightly bulged cases can be run through a bulge buster and re-used, but do not re-use smiled cases. You can see in my picture where the brass started to shear at the lip of the smile, the bulge buster doesn't fix this.

Smiled case pushed through the bulge buster:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/Untitled.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0577.jpg

[yondering]

I was under the impression that the bulge buster was to remove the bulge left just above the rim after resizing so the finished round doesn't appear wasp-waisted. It's not marketed as a cure for Glock bulge is it? All of my resized .40 has a slight bulge near the base just above the rim, after a boolit is seated it clearly has a wasp-waist to it. It's all been fired in my Berretta PX4 and doesn't have any discernible bulges or smiles after being shot in it.

That's just because your sizing die is sizing the case diameter down more than necessary. Nothing to do with Glock bulges or the bulge buster kit.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This has all been discussed here time and time again, however there are some new points to make.

The picture in the thread showing the severly bulged case is not likely to be the fault of the gun, unless the gun was a 1st Gen Glock, and even then unlikely. I think a large powder charge or a deep seated bullet or a bullet that was pushed into the case during feeding, are more likely the cause of this.

Edit: "turns out it was a 10mm case!"

But,,,

First: Lee makes and sells the Bulge Buster Kit which is nothing more than their Deluxe factory Crimp Die with some attachments. In fact you have to buy the die separately to go with the BB kit. This is the low cost alternative to the Reddiing die which is either 3 or 6 times more expensive, and has been met with mixed reviews here at the site. Not a fan of the Redding die, IMO. The case is pushed all the way thru the FCD with a pusher See pic, BEFORE the case is full length sized.

It is a "Case Prep Operation." Not a reloading operation.

Second. None of the pistols mentioned in above posts have "Fully Supported Chambers", and Glocks are not the worst of the bunch by any means.

This moniker "The Glock Bulge" has been hung on Glocks,,, Simply because they were the first pistols that exibited this issue mainly because they were one of the first service pistols to chamber the .40S&W round, and had generous chambers to facilitate reliable feeding. The feed ramps were a little far forward for the same reason. They would feed anything and since Glock doesn't care about your reloading success or failure this was a non issue for them.

There is a big difference between an unsupported chamber. and a loose chamber. An unsupported chamber has a big opening somewhere and a loose chamber is just a few thousandths bigger than a tight chamber.

A normal Glock Chamber tapers from .435 at the back to .426 at the front, and that's why the case bulges out at the back. I have a Storm Lake aftermarket barrel for this gun whose chamber tapers from .427 to.424.

My reloaded rounds are .421, and have all been debulged.

The aftermarket barrel does not feed reliably so I don't use it,,, the Glock barrel does.

The bulge in the case is exaserbated when a sizing die is pushed onto the case and sizes the front portion of the case but not down to the extractor groove. This creates a definate bulge which since it has not been resized is much weaker. Since this portion of the case is already out to the chamber wall the open part of the chamber allows the brass to further expand into the feed ramp area. A debulged case still has the elasticity of the brass on it's way to the chamber wall to soak up some of the pressure. Similar to hitting something that is just hanging as opposed to hitting something that is backed up.

However the pic above is NOT the typical Glock Bulge. The typical bulge which is common to most auto pistols including XD's and M&P's and 1911's in .40S&W too is a uniform bulge from the case fire forming to the chamber,and a small intrusion into the feed ramp. See pic #1 below.

The other pic from above shows a radical intrusion into the feed ramp!

That case was very nearly at failure point.

There was something seriously wrong with that piece of brass in the first place or with the load! Edit: the seriously wrong part is that it is a 10 MM case!

Either it was not resized correctly, (you can see the sizing die didn't go all the way to the base.) It was definately not debulged, and/or it looks like it was loaded hot. Too soft brass could also be the issue, but would be rare.

Just seating the bullet too deep or an extra .2 gr of charge could do this easily. There is a kind of fine line between success and failure with this cartridge, and it is definately NOT the cartridge to learn reloading on. It requires some finesse.

As far as bad brass goes,,, The brand of brass that has given the most problems, is Federal brand made from 1990 to 96. Most of this brass is long gone however a few are still laying around, and this is why you need to look at your brass before you load it.

It is marked "FC".

This brass was essentially first generation .40S&W brass and had a much lower web in the case.

Subsiquent brass manufactured by Federal has a much higher web portion and is perfectly safe. This higher web is there to better bridge the gap created by the feed ramp.

The case in the pic is not an FC case. The Tapered portion of the case goes too far forward.

Loading the .40 S&W can exibit problems that are not easily recognizable, and can have serious consequences when pushing the envelope.

A near Max load with the bullet seated just .010 too deep can cause excessively high pressures which would easily explain the picture in this thread.

As far as the "unsupported chamber" statement, which I am totally sick of hearing,,,

The ONLY chambers that fully support a handgun round are revolvers.

The reason why this is is because an auto pistol must have a feed ramp, and an extractor. And that feed ramp must intersect the chamber at some point, and the extractor has to have a place to get ahold of the case rim. The extractor is not as big a problem but the intersection of the feed ramp is where the unsupported portion of the case is. The farther forward the intersection is, the more into the weaker portion of the case it is, and the more the case is unsupported.

Here's some pics to show what I'm talking about. 1. is the normal "Glock Bulge", and the left side is the portion that bulged into the feed ramp and you can see it wasn't that bad, 2. is the unsupported area of my 3rd gen G35 barrel, note how small this area actually is? 3. is the unsupported area of a Para 16-40 1911 style barrel showing much more unsupported area than the Glock. 4. a Blown FC case, 5.the FC headstamp. #6,7,8 are the debulging case prep operation, 9 is a full length sized case and 10 is the FL case left with a debulged case. Note how the debulged case is cylindrical? and the FL case has still got a bulge at teh bottom.

I hope some of this helps better explain this issue which has been talked about by so many and understood by so few. Just the understanding of exactly what a supported or unsupported chamber actually is,,, should put alot of the hoopla and oink to rest. :holysheep :killingpc

Randy

[Wrbjr]

Thought I'd better clear this up. Guys, the case in that picture was not sized in any way. That case is a cross section of a severe Glock smile, from my 10mm. Gofastman left out the second picture, which is a similarly smiled case that was run through the bulge buster. See below.

This doesn't have to be complicated: lightly bulged cases can be run through a bulge buster and re-used, but do not re-use smiled cases. You can see in my picture where the brass started to shear at the lip of the smile, the bulge buster doesn't fix this.

Smiled case pushed through the bulge buster:
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/Untitled.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0577.jpg

That really helps... now I know what the "smile" is vs the bulge. I definitely have not seen any "smiles" so far in my 40 brass. Crosses fingers....

[softpoint]

I was under the impression that the bulge buster was to remove the bulge left just above the rim after resizing so the finished round doesn't appear wasp-waisted. It's not marketed as a cure for Glock bulge is it? All of my resized .40 has a slight bulge near the base just above the rim, after a boolit is seated it clearly has a wasp-waist to it. It's all been fired in my Berretta PX4 and doesn't have any discernible bulges or smiles after being shot in it.

The regular resizing die will USUALLY size the brass down enough to function in most pistols. I haven't seen the Lee tool, but I'm assuming it is intended to get almost or all of the bulge out all the way to the web. Think of the bulge as a "pot belly", tapered on both ends. I've shot .40 brass that was fired in Glocks, reloaded and fired in a 1911. It worked fine, but that is but one example. A seriously bulged case, maybe bulged back a little farther, and an exceptionally tight chamber or any combination of that, and it may not work. I imagine the Lee tool sizes the case a little farther towards the case head to try to eliminate that.
I once had some 454 Casull brass given to me by a friend that had been fired in a Puma rifle. I cleaned, sized it and loaded it. Not a single piece of it would chamber in my Freedom arms 454. The Puma's chamber was just enough larger all the way around just ahead of the rim that the sizer die didn't reach that portion. I had to tear all that ammo down and make a die that i could drive the brass into all the way to the rim, and then drive it out. Works fine now. And I check for those sorts of things now too.:D

[Shiloh]

Sounds good to me. I never saw cases look like that right out of the chamber. That is a catastrophic shear line that you show.
I just cut a piece of range brass in half and ther is nothing like what is shown on the first picture. There is no smile either.
hen I cut mine, the primer fell out is pieces. How did you keep yours in??

Shiloh

[W.R.Buchanan]

So it was 10MM ?! *** DUH!

I haven't seen any.40S&W cases with the shear line on them either.

Softpoint: go back and look at the pics once again on post #42. I added pics of the de bulging case prep process.

Randy

[yondering]

Sounds good to me. I never saw cases look like that right out of the chamber. That is a catastrophic shear line that you show.
I just cut a piece of range brass in half and ther is nothing like what is shown on the first picture. There is no smile either.
hen I cut mine, the primer fell out is pieces. How did you keep yours in??

Shiloh

Correct, my pictures are of two severe smiles from hot loads with soft brass. The point was to show that "smiles", with a sharply defined line in the case, should not be re-used, while normal bulges are OK.

The primer stayed in because there is just barely more than half the case remaining.

[yondering]

So it was 10MM ?! *** DUH!

I haven't seen any.40S&W cases with the shear line on them either.



Other than the size of the primer, there's no significant difference between the 10mm and 40 that would cause bulges in one but not the other. Maybe you know this, I couldn't tell from your response. As far as I know, the back of the chamber, in Glocks anyway, is the same between 10mm and 40 S&W.

[yondering]

Either it was not resized correctly, (you can see the sizing die didn't go all the way to the base.) It was definately not debulged, and/or it looks like it was loaded hot. Too soft brass could also be the issue, but would be rare.

Go read my post again. That case was not sized at all. The shear line, or "smile" is from a hot load combined with soft brass.



The case in the pic is not an FC case. The Tapered portion of the case goes too far forward.



Actually, that is an FC case. There is a lot of FC brass still out there. Mine can all be sorted into two groups by weight, and both groups look distinctly different inside. You are probably thinking of the lighter of these two groups.

[9.3X62AL]

I'm just lucky, I suppose--my Glock 23 (Gen 3) doesn't produce "smilied" brass with W-W brass using the STX 180 factory loads, or loads that duplicate them. The Storm Lake barrel and chamber produces fired brass from cast boolit loads of similar intensity that mic only .001"-.002" smaller than brass fired in the OEM chamber. Perhaps the STX loads--180s running about 925 FPS from the 23's barrel--aren't of sufficient pressure to produce the "grin".

The easy and affordable answer is an aftermarket barrel with better case support.

[Shiloh]

I'm just lucky, I suppose--my Glock 23 (Gen 3) doesn't produce "smilied" brass with W-W brass using the STX 180 factory loads, or loads that duplicate them. The Storm Lake barrel and chamber produces fired brass from cast boolit loads of similar intensity that mic only .001"-.002" smaller than brass fired in the OEM chamber. Perhaps the STX loads--180s running about 925 FPS from the 23's barrel--aren't of sufficient pressure to produce the "grin".

The easy and affordable answer is an aftermarket barrel with better case support.

Mine produced bulged brass. Kind of a "Pregnant brass look" when picked up.
when you rolled it around in your fingers, the bulge was quite apparent.

When run through a "Bulge Buster" there was no bulge at all, and they drop right into a case gauge. Like you, I went with an aftermarket barrel from the now defunct Federal Arms Corporation, FAC. http://www.facsupplystore.com/

Shiloh

[Roundball]

I owe an apology to a person on another site concerning this bulge issue. We may be talking about two different bulges. The Redding push through die takes are of the bulge that is further up in the case than the infamous "smilie." Using the Redding die it will remove this bulge. Anybody that tried to salvage a case with a smilie in the web is courting disaster. It was necessary to run my 10mm cases through this die since the rounds fired in the Glock 20 or 29 barrel, with normal resizing, would not chamber in my LWD aftermarket barrel for the G20. Chasing this problem down, one of the manufactures suggested using the detached pistol barrel as a case gauge. Works good. Experience here has shown that normal loads do not destroy the brass in either 40S&W or 10mm-going nuclear will.

[softpoint]

Here are a few pics.In the first, the Fire Dragon barrel is on the left. The factory Glock 10mm barrel is on the right. I changed the barrels so I would have a fired case out of each one. One being darker it is harder to see, but the ramps go about the same distance into the chamber. The ramp cut is wider on the factory barrel but that means little.
On the second picture is the size of the cases at the case head. The factory barrel measured .432, The aftermarket barrel, .426. Now we are getting somewhere. The factory case will only go less than halfway into the case gauge .
The third photo shows the case out of the aftermarket barrel which has gone all the way into the case gauge,with only a slight bit of friction just as it hit bottom.
Both cartridges were new Starline brass with the same charge of Bluedot, and 180 grain Gold Dot bullets. Interestingly, both the factory and aftermarket barrel cases showed less than .0005 out of round just ahead of the web!! Both nice round chambers, but the factory chamber showing MUCH more taper, as they both measured between .421 and .422 at the mouth, which could have been deformed a bit on ejection.
So, in this instance, there is no bulge at the feed ramp, the bulge is uniform and all the way around. And the aftermarket barrel is somewhat more accurate because it keeps the cartridge aligned with bore better?

[shotman]

well no one has run their mouth yet , so I will
IF BULGED brass was unsafe WHY do you resize them ALL the BS is JUST that

[turbo1889]

I didn't thoroughly read the entirety of every post so far just about half the first page of this thread and then skimmed through the rest; so forgive me if someone else has already said this.

Regular Glock + Better Supported After Market Replacement Barrel with Non-Polygonal Rifling = Good Glock

I reload cases that have been slightly bulged in the aftermarket barrels with better chamber support that have been run through a push through sizing die with zero worries and zero problems so far. Some of the hot loads in the factory barrels can be scary how much they bulge and I don't trust them for anything more then light plinking loads and even then for only a few reloads. The Glock is a good action but the after market barrels are way better for someone who reloads; the stock barrels are not built for reloads. If you are a reloader then you will be best served by getting a good high quality after market replacement barrel to fill your needs.

[softpoint]

I owe an apology to a person on another site concerning this bulge issue. We may be talking about two different bulges. The Redding push through die takes are of the bulge that is further up in the case than the infamous "smilie." Using the Redding die it will remove this bulge. Anybody that tried to salvage a case with a smilie in the web is courting disaster. It was necessary to run my 10mm cases through this die since the rounds fired in the Glock 20 or 29 barrel, with normal resizing, would not chamber in my LWD aftermarket barrel for the G20. Chasing this problem down, one of the manufactures suggested using the detached pistol barrel as a case gauge. Works good. Experience here has shown that normal loads do not destroy the brass in either 40S&W or 10mm-going nuclear will.

You are correct. The Smilie is a bulge where the ramp is cut too far in the barrel, along with a load that produces enough pressure to cause said grin.
A bulge all the way around is caused by the factory chamber being cone shaped, or tapered way too much. It looks as though all factory chambers may be on the generous side, but not all of them have their ramps cut deeply enough to cause smilies. By looking at the results I got today, any load hot enough to cause the case to bulge into ramp cut would do it on either barrel. (I think) OTOH any load with even a moderate amount of pressure would cause the bulge all the way around. And the "all around " bulge is the lesser of the two evils??IMHO

[williamwaco]

I used to have a MAC-10 .45ACP It bulged the cases just like the Glock.

They were easy to "fix" but about 80% of them failed on the first reloading and none of them made it past the second reloading.

I would NOT fix them.

[yondering]

Mine produced bulged brass. Kind of a "Pregnant brass look" when picked up.
when you rolled it around in your fingers, the bulge was quite apparent.



Yes, this is the kind of bulge that is OK to fix, common to some Glocks but not all, and is what the Redding and Lee "bulge buster" dies were made for. They were not intended to fix smiled cases. They are useful if you have a bunch of range brass fired in other guns, that may or may not fit your chamber without push through sizing.

I think that's the whole point of the original post, right?

[Wrbjr]

I disassembled my Springfield Xdm40 and placed a factory round in the barrel. It is fully supported right up to the bottom of the web or case where the extractor ring or recess begins.

I have ordered the Lee Bulge Buster and a new crimp die kit. Will have to start watching more closely I guess.

[gofastman]

Gofastman left out the second picture, which is a similarly smiled case that was run through the bulge buster. See below.
DOH! thats the one I meant to use :killingpc
sorry folks

[FergusonTO35]

I use range brass exclusively in my 9X19 Sig and Rugers, including Glock brass. I've never had any kind of body failure and some of my cases have been reloaded at least a dozen times. The only kind of failure I ever get is a slight mouth split, which is likely due to repeatedly expanding it enough for .358 boolits. All my reloads are on the mild side, 950-1,000 fps. I get superb accuracy and sure function in all my guns.

[Texantothecore]

I am not at all sure I would purchase a gun that had a reputation for bulging cases. Yikes.

[prs]

In the nice pics above the use of the Bulge Buster is shown. I did it that way, but noticed after several reloading my brass was getting shorter. So now I bulge bust first with head going through the buster followed by the case and case mouth. Then I resize with a full length size die set to only size the brass where the boolits will fit. Case length is no longer shrinking, or growing. I have not seen the pronounced smiles as shown above from my GLock 23 with Glock barrel or with the Wolfe barrel. Then again, I am shooting wussie loads for plinking. The Glock barrel shoots my lead better than does the Wolfe barrel and the Glock barrel does not lead at all. The Wolfe barrel skins a little lead off the boolits due to the sharp onset of the rifeling (my theory), but does not build-up lead.

prs

[fredj338]

well no one has run their mouth yet , so I will
IF BULGED brass was unsafe WHY do you resize them ALL the BS is JUST that

If you believe that taking malleable brass & reforming it over & over is safe, then you are only moments form a KB if you push beyond midrange loads. The brass gets weaker, no way you can argue that. Weak brass is unsafe brass, every knowledeable reloader knows this. It's why you toss brass that has enlarged primer pockets.

[yondering]

I use range brass exclusively in my 9X19 Sig and Rugers, including Glock brass. I've never had any kind of body failure and some of my cases have been reloaded at least a dozen times. The only kind of failure I ever get is a slight mouth split, which is likely due to repeatedly expanding it enough for .358 boolits. All my reloads are on the mild side, 950-1,000 fps. I get superb accuracy and sure function in all my guns.

This discussion doesn't apply to 9mm.

[FergusonTO35]

Ooohkaay.... I'm not an expert on the topic by any means but I've always heard that the 9X19 Glocks were susceptible to the same problem, just to a lesser degree. My Kel-Tec .32 produces "pregnant" brass but they always resize just fine and I've never had a case failure with it. Of course, the .32 Auto operates at much lower pressure than the 9 or .40. Perhaps reducing pressure is the key to preventing brass failure in guns with unsupported chambers and loading your .40 to 9X19 pressure would solve the problem.

[Shiloh]

This discussion doesn't apply to 9mm.

Nope.

Never had a problem with the Glock 9mm's just .40's.

Shiloh

[turbo1889]

9mm is a tapered case not a straight walled case and thus at least according to Lee is not suitable for use with their bulge-buster kit.

That said, provided, you had an appropriatly sized carbide die that was ground to the head size of 9mm brass instead of the body size they could be sized in a push through arrangement to bring the head back down to correct size to get the part that the shell holder grabs but you would still need to size them in a regular size die afterwards to size the body. Same problem as 30-carbine both are tapered cases that the walls have a small enough taper to them that and are short enough in length that carbide dies can and are made for them but you can't just push them through one of those carbide dies like you can with the true straight walled cartridges to size them push through style like you can with the 40-S&W, 10-mm, 45-GAP, 45-ACP, 380-ACP, etc . . .