Making some progress...Ruger .45 colt

[oldfart1956]

Folks had to stop in and give a heartfelt thanks to all who assisted me with the loads for the Ruger Blackhawk .45 colt in my post on 06/27/12. Also wanted to update and not drag up an old post so here's the last tests. The biggest improvement seemed to come from 44mans suggestion to switch from the .452swc./255gr. to the .452 rnf/255gr. (both Lee molds) For whatever reason I couldn't get the swc's to group past 25yds. and only with a few loads at 25 yds. even after dozens of loads/lubes and alloy adjustments. I'm not saying the swc won't work...it's just not working for me in my particular gun, with my loads. Groups rarely went below 4 inches although I did have some around 2 inches with the occasional flyer. Increasing the alloy strength (poor choice of words I know) by adding some hardened shot to the melt did help somewhat and oven-tempering and/or water dropping did yield some benefits as well. Groups dropped to 2 or 3 inches at 25yds. but remained dismal beyond that range. Oddly, increasing the powder charge beyond my comfort zone dropped the group size but the trade-off was intolerable (for me....I'm a wimp) recoil. I now limit the load to 8gr. of either Universal Clays or Unique. Also somewhat puzzling is the Unique burns cleaner than the Universal Clays. Hmmm...? Since going to the 255gr. rnf (Lee 90358) groups at 25yds. are holding around 1 1/2 to 2 inches and best of all at 50yds. they maintain sub- 3inch groups and a 75yd. target yielded a 4 inch group!! Quite remarkable for me even with a scope (Nikon Encore) and bench resting. More to come....Audie...the Oldfart..

[RobS]

Nice work..........self exploration in this game is simply invaluable.

[oldfart1956]

During my testing I worked to eliminate as many variables a possible. One way I found that worked quite well is to only load 1 ca'tridge at a time and use the same chamber each time when doing so. This eliminates 5 variables right off the bat (the other 5 chambers) and forces me to slow down and concentrate on breaking a clean shot. Some might question the usefulness of such but remember I'm working on the most accurate/useable load at present and adding in the other 5 chambers only makes this more problematic. Once I'm satisfied with the particular load I will, of course, take advantage of the full cylinder capacity. Another item that helps is to try different targets. Some colors are easier to see and some shapes help with alignment better than others. I hold better on square bulls over round for example and the best color for me is lime green. Don't know why...don't care. Also a six-o-clock hold wasn't working. I know it should...it just wasn't. And a 2 inch bull at 25yds. worked better than a 1 inch bull. At 50/75yds. this is increased to 3 inch bulls. I also found out Walmart sells these stick-on bright colored post-it notes and it's saving me a lot of printer ink. (a dab of glue secures them to a sheet of printer paper right smart.) I also carry along a notepad and keep more detailed records which I transfer to a shooting log at the end of each session. This saves me trying the same load twice with the same results. I even record the bad loads...for the same reason. Well, no doubt more to come as soon as I fill this coffee cup. Audie...the Oldfart..

[oldfart1956]

I must also confess, due to my aggravation with the testing, that while at Walmart I procured some....(take a deep breath here...) jacketed bullets. Yes, the Walmart in Chambersburg, Pa. actually carries reloading supplies. Somewhat limited but none the less. The Hornady 250 XTP are actually .452's and were not overly impressive. The Sierra .4515's in 185gr. however....:) ! (Sierra Power Jacket 8800) I won't convert of course as I couldn't afford to shoot'em if I wanted to. But the 2 inch group at 75yds. makes me ponder getting a lighter 200gr. or less mold from Lee. Recoil is reduced, velocity is up. Has anyone had success with the Lee rnf 200gr. boolit at 75yds. and would you share your load data? As well, I have large hands....and am wondering about Pachmeyer or Hogue grips to aid in controling the handgun. I know....I know....more blasphmy (sp.?) but I'm curious. On the bench I can only get 2 1/2 fingers on the grip, one partially under and one under the grip. Yes....large hands. So any suggestions would be welcome. Well, I must check and see if we have a Hunting Tales section as I have a few moments and a tale of hunting the flat-land griz of northwestern Pa. to ramble on about. Audie....the longwinded Oldfart..

[jblee10]

Yes, Hogue grips on a Blackhawk are blasphemy!!!!! But pretty is as pretty does. And the Hogue monogrip helps tighten up my groups with a Blackhawk.

[Wally]

Folks had to stop in and give a heartfelt thanks to all who assisted me with the loads for the Ruger Blackhawk .45 colt in my post on 06/27/12. Also wanted to update and not drag up an old post so here's the last tests. The biggest improvement seemed to come from 44mans suggestion to switch from the .452swc./255gr. to the .452 rnf/255gr. (both Lee molds) For whatever reason I couldn't get the swc's to group past 25yds. and only with a few loads at 25 yds. even after dozens of loads/lubes and alloy adjustments. I'm not saying the swc won't work...it's just not working for me in my particular gun, with my loads. Groups rarely went below 4 inches although I did have some around 2 inches with the occasional flyer. Increasing the alloy strength (poor choice of words I know) by adding some hardened shot to the melt did help somewhat and oven-tempering and/or water dropping did yield some benefits as well. Groups dropped to 2 or 3 inches at 25yds. but remained dismal beyond that range. Oddly, increasing the powder charge beyond my comfort zone dropped the group size but the trade-off was intolerable (for me....I'm a wimp) recoil. I now limit the load to 8gr. of either Universal Clays or Unique. Also somewhat puzzling is the Unique burns cleaner than the Universal Clays. Hmmm...? Since going to the 255gr. rnf (Lee 90358) groups at 25yds. are holding around 1 1/2 to 2 inches and best of all at 50yds. they maintain sub- 3inch groups and a 75yd. target yielded a 4 inch group!! Quite remarkable for me even with a scope (Nikon Encore) and bench resting. More to come....Audie...the Oldfart..



Had lots of trouble with my .45 Colt Ruger...I have doe well with a Lyman 452424 and a Lee SWC 90356--7.5 Grains of HP-38 sized to .452"...I have not been so lucky with the famous Lyman 454190... I have a vintage Lee 235 WC mold that shoots the best of all for me ...with 6.0 grains of Red Dot.

IMHO getting an accurate load in the Ruger .45 Colt has been my biggest challenge and I shoot/load for all the most popular calibers.

[Thumbcocker]

What will really make you pull your hair out is how well the convertibles shoot with acp loads. The .45 colt has not been nice to me.

[9.3X62AL]

ANY Blackhawk in my safe that isn't a Bisley Model from the factory gets Pachmayr Presentations as soon as it lands here. The plow-handle OEM grips on Colt and Ruger SAs don't work well for me. Like you, my hands are a bit out-sized.

I know you mentioned being a bit recoil-shy, but with the good results had using 8.0 grains of Unique I would heartily recommend adding another 1.0 grains under your 250 grain castings. It is a real "sweet spot" for me using both Lymans #454424 and #454190 in the Bishawk. 90% of my 45 Colt shooting gets done using those loads.

I've done very little work with 200 grainers in the 45 Colt. Can't help with that. If they fit the throats, there's no real reason not to try them. They might shoot a bit low due to barrel time and lessened recoil/muzzle flip, given a 250 grain boolit sight setting.

[runfiverun]

another vote for the pachmeyers.
mark each cylinder as you go through your testing it isn't uncommon for a revolver to have 3-4 real good cylinders and a couple of not so good ones,or a single, pair or trio that are outstanding.
i think it was 44 man that had a revolver that [or it was his friends] was like that, it would throw some weird groups that looked like a spiral.
it would continously throw a couple together then fling the next ones over and over again.

[oldfart1956]

ANY Blackhawk in my safe that isn't a Bisley Model from the factory gets Pachmayr Presentations as soon as it lands here. The plow-handle OEM grips on Colt and Ruger SAs don't work well for me. Like you, my hands are a bit out-sized.

I know you mentioned being a bit recoil-shy, but with the good results had using 8.0 grains of Unique I would heartily recommend adding another 1.0 grains under your 250 grain castings. It is a real "sweet spot" for me using both Lymans #454424 and #454190 in the Bishawk. 90% of my 45 Colt shooting gets done using those loads.

I've done very little work with 200 grainers in the 45 Colt. Can't help with that. If they fit the throats, there's no real reason not to try them. They might shoot a bit low due to barrel time and lessened recoil/muzzle flip, given a 250 grain boolit sight setting.

9.3....I did run the loads up higher...to 9.5gr. at one point. That was when the first Nikon came unglued. Nikon was good on the warrantee though and replaced it with a new one. The entire eye-piece flew off....I mean the whole back of the scope! Perhaps due to the lack of grip the gun is recoiling worse than it should be as many shoot the heavier loads well. Pachmeyers or Hogues might help there. I am reasonable certain much of the accuracy problem is with the swc design. It's a great design for the ranges it's intended to be used at but perhaps I'm attempting to extend the range too much. (50/75yds.) At present I can hold 2 inch groups at 25yds. and sometimes 1 1/2 inch with the swc boolits.....usually with several touching. Trouble begins, for me, at 50+ yards which as stated is probably beyond the design of the boolit. The 255 rnf is showing a lot of promise. Dropping the weight to 200 might work. Thanks for the response. Audie...

[bigboredad]

I agree with upping your load to 9gr with your 250-255's it won't take long to get used to the recoil you may try upping it a half grain at a time

[oldfart1956]

another vote for the pachmeyers.
mark each cylinder as you go through your testing it isn't uncommon for a revolver to have 3-4 real good cylinders and a couple of not so good ones,or a single, pair or trio that are outstanding.
i think it was 44 man that had a revolver that [or it was his friends] was like that, it would throw some weird groups that looked like a spiral.
it would continously throw a couple together then fling the next ones over and over again. Runfiverun that was the reason behind singly loading the Ruger. It definatly does matter. 3 of the chambers in this gun look like beavers chewed them, oblong and 3 lobed holes. It still shoots better than I can hold. I may number each chamber and take notes on which one shoot to poa and which ones don't. Use stick-on numbers from one of them label makers?? I'll check locally for the Pachmeyers as well. Many thanks. Audie..

[oldfart1956]

Yes, Hogue grips on a Blackhawk are blasphemy!!!!! But pretty is as pretty does. And the Hogue monogrip helps tighten up my groups with a Blackhawk.

Jblee, I'll be looking at the Hogues as well. Thanks! Audie..

[MtGun44]

Never could get the Lee 214 SWC in .44 cal to shoot in anything. Not much of a fan of
the Lee SWC pistol designs in general, maybe excepting their sorta-kinda-almost a clone
of the 200 SWC .45 ACP kinda H&G 68ish mold, which has gotten good reports in general.

I have had superb results with a 285 and 300 gr true Keith concept designs in .45 Colt
at high powers and low (23-24 H110 and 8 gr W231) in several different Rugers. These
molds are both CB Group Buy 6 cav Lee molds, IIRC, honchoed by Catshooter and
designed by .45-2.1 to true Keith principles. Very good molds and excellent accy and
lots of power with a 300 Keith (looks a lot like 429421, where 452424 looks really short
and squatty) over 23 gr of H110.

As someone said - wait until you try the .45 ACP. . . . . . . how does it shoot that well?????
given the 1/2 mile smooth run before it finds the barrel. But it does.

As to grips, I dumb-lucked into a set of really well done Sambar stag grips that are about 1/8-3/16"
wider on each side of the backstrap than the Ruger, and have good grooving. I was really
amazed at how much they reduce the felt recoil with hot loads. By comparison, the stock
Ruger grips will beat you hard with the hot 300 gr loads, but with these stag grips, the
load is authoritative (muzzle whip) but not unpleasant on the hand at all. I was pretty
ignorant about stag grips, kinda thought they were an affectation of 50s cowboy movies.
I stand corrected. Well shaped they are superior functionally. It also turns out that the
grips alone are worth at least 2/3 of what I paid for the Ruger with the grips on it!
If I hadn't lucked into them, I'd sure never have bought a set. Like them very much now!

Just checked a few web sites - Sambar stag grips that look like mine are being offered for
$325, which means they threw in a Ruger BH convertible for $25. . . . . .:bigsmyl2:

Bill

[44man]

What will really make you pull your hair out is how well the convertibles shoot with acp loads. The .45 colt has not been nice to me.
If you want to see a difference with ACP loads, go to SP primed brass in a revolver. Use standard primers.

[44man]

You need to remember the Ruger .45 has a fast twist at 1 in 16". Light boolit loads can be hard to find and you can push them too much. You can grossly over spin.
the Ruger Colt actually likes a heavier boolit at moderate speeds.
It shoots the ACP because it is slower with the light boolit.

[RobS]

You need to remember the Ruger .45 has a fast twist at 1 in 16". Light boolit loads can be hard to find and you can push them too much. You can grossly over spin.
the Ruger Colt actually likes a heavier boolit at moderate speeds.
It shoots the ACP because it is slower with the light boolit.

Bingo on the lighter/slower 45 auto convertible loads.

[Harter66]

I've an RCBS 45-200SWC I've shot over 10 gr of Unique w/ fair results in my RBH . It came w/ the Hogue grips onit.

9gr under either of you're Lee boolits has worked well for me the 452-252 needed the wad card to shoot really well. All 3 will give me 5" kneeling knee rested 50yd groups. Except that 1 chamber that lands over there someplace.

[Sweetpea]

Yes, Hogue grips on a Blackhawk are blasphemy!!!!! But pretty is as pretty does. And the Hogue monogrip helps tighten up my groups with a Blackhawk.

Go with Hogue and don't look back! You won't regret it!:guntootsmiley:

[sw282]

0f56-Years ago l shot IHMSA. 0ne of my guns was a SBH. 10 1/2''. 44mag.. l made the mistake of mounting scope.Twas the most brutal gun l ever owned for recoil. The scope changed the balance point on the gun. 2xLeu EER. Redfield mt. Pachmyers.
Since then l have toyed w/getting another but stuck w/Mod 29 instead.

[Cadillo]

If you want to see a difference with ACP loads, go to SP primed brass in a revolver. Use standard primers.

Would that difference be Positive or Negative compared to standard LP primed brass?

[prs]

Are you guys checking and, if needed, correcting the cylinder throats in these 45 Colt Rugers. Mine were way tight and responded positively to reaming to .453 shooting .454 250gr boolits at modest velocity and black powder cartridge. This also should give better consistency among cylinders.

prs

[High Desert Hunter]

My 5.5" SS Bisley has tight throats, and it leads pretty good with bullets sized .451 and .452, but with the 289gr SWC from the 45-270SAA mold it will shoot itty bitty groups, thankfully my Bisley has a taller factory front sight, so it will shot to POA. My 45 Flattop has .452 throats, and it too loves the same bullet, it does shoot just a little high, but I can live with that, the 45 ACP cylinder shoots very well, but it can't hold a candle to the 45 Colt cylinder. I get the same results with that bullet from all 4 of my 45 Colts and my Freedom Arms 454.