Is this gas cutting....

[suba]

I don't post much but would like getting a few opinions if I can. I've been shooting for over 50 years hand loading over 35. Started casting maybe a year ago. I shot 5 boolits into a hard dry dirt pile the other day. I only recover 3 of them. After inspecting the boolits I'm sort of puzzled. The noses expanded a little but the bands lost material. I'm not sure if it was gas cutting or abrasion. I Had a light crimp so no way I can see the cases sized down the bands. It seems like gas cutting but no lead in the bore. Absolutely none. Had a perfect lube star on the muzzle. That's why I'm puzzled. I'm not sure what happened. Here's the load.

FA 5.5" 454

Sized .4515. Boolits grew to .4518. They just pushed through the throats.

400 PB oven hardened. BHN 18-25. Yes maybe GC might be better but I wanted a PB.

Loaded 19, 20, 21, 22, 22.5 IMR 4227/Starline/ Federal GM205M.

Bull shop speed green.

OAL 1.760

I'm guessing 22.5 grains was around 1100/50,000 but it might have been more. It seemed like 1200+ but no chrony so don't know for sure. All opinions would be welcome.

[MtGun44]

Probably fractured off at impact with the dirt. Hard alloys can be brittle - lino for example.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Definitely impact abrasion, just look how much dirt/sand packed into the grooves! I see one perfect engrave on the middle boolit, they look great to me and show very little skidding. Sounds like everything is working great.

Gear

[Shiloh]

Re-melt them, re-pour them, re-shoot them.

Shiloh

[303Guy]

Here's what gas cutting looks like (sometimes).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-314F_edited-1.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-713F_edited.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/shotskirttails2.jpg
That last one was in Deep Purple.

[MtGun44]

Great pix of gas cutting.

Bill

[GP100man]

Great pics 303Guy !!!

I reconized the 2nd pic as gas cutting but the third is really eye opening !

GP

[Bloodman14]

Here's what gas cutting looks like (sometimes).

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-314F_edited-1.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/MVC-713F_edited.jpg
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/shotskirttails2.jpg
That last one was in Deep Purple.

So, that's what it looks like; anyone got pictures of a recovered boolit that leaded?

[jblee10]

suba, is that one of your loaded rounds on your avatar? Why melt them down again, just load up an shoot. Just kidding. Those must be some hard mo fo's to come out of hard dirt looking like that. How deep did you have to dig? I'm sure if you shoot anything that moves, you'll never recover a bullet. Those should shoot through a moose.

[303Guy]

Thanks. Yep. That Deep Purple one had me scratching for a while. That was a paper patched boolit so you can see the puzzle. The bore had developed a new rash of rust which resulted in those boolits. Those are by no means the only way a boolit can gas cut or erode

[suba]

suba, is that one of your loaded rounds on your avatar?

Yup that's it. I designed it to have full engraving sort of like a wadcutter. I don't need speed to stabilize at least in air. My fun load is 2.8 gr Trail Boss in a Colt case. I'm guessing velocity is around 500/600 but it flies straight up to 25 yards. The rounds I posted went in about 18" in very hard clay. A real thumper of a round.

As for shooting through anything that walks...well. I know what it's like to be hunted. I was a Marine in Vietnam and had my share of killing people and animals and then some. No more killing except maybe two legged predators. Not to preach but I don't think many of us realize how similar we are to animals, and I mean all animals. They have families. They grieve. They feel pain. They are afraid of humans just as we will be afraid of aliens who will hunt us for food in the future. If you think I'm crazy so be it, but I can assure you I am not.

[1Shirt]

303 Super pics! Says it all!
1Shirt!

[243winxb]

400 PB oven hardened. BHN 18-25. Needs 2% antimony to heat treat , to soft. Bullet under size, need at least .452"

[Iron Mike Golf]

1. What's your barrel slug at?
2. What's your alloy?
3. How long did you age the boolits after heat treating?

You might repeat that test in a pile of loose dirt. Adding a little tin (up to the amount of antimony in your alloy) will toughen (remove brittleness) the alloy without softening it.

Having said that, if you're getting good accuracy at the ranges you want to shoot and no leading, I 'd call that a success.

[BAGTIC]

Wait a minute. Some of those bullets are gas checked. I thought gas checks were to prevent gas cutting. Something is not right.

[paul h]

If a gas checked bullet is undersized, it will gas cut just assuredly as a pb bullet. Gas checks most important job is to act as a socket to keep the rifling from tearing up a cast bullet.

[suba]

Hey guys,

It would seem my boolits might be a little soft for the guesstimated pressure but they seem to work. Like I said there was no leading in the bore. As Bass Ackwards likes to say hardness only matters when it does. The boolits are slightly undersize but I need that to get them to load in my 454 cylinder because of the OAL. They were a push fit and I don't have a problem with that. I may try adding a little more tin as suggested and see what happens.

The best I can tell my barrel slugs .452. It's a good alloy that I bought on-line but can't remember where. AC is really soft. WC / OH seems really hard. Casting is an interest of mine but I only have one mould and one handgun. I don't intend to have more because I don't need more.

I've been a long range shooter most of my life starting with M14/16, 7mm, 338 Lapua, 50 BMG. Hand guns are relatively new for me. The boolits I cast were aged only a week. I smacked some of them with a heavy hammer. AC really deformed. Oven hardened virtually didn't move. I think my alloy is fine, and bands completely fill out.

This is a really nice forum in that everyone seems genuinely helpful. Kudo's to all of you. I believe in helping others navigate their way through life. I also believe in speaking softly and carrying a big stick, and an armed society is a polite society. Let's hope our future generations right to keep and bear arms will not be infringed. God know's they'll need their guns.

[MikeS]

Not to preach but I don't think many of us realize how similar we are to animals, and I mean all animals. They have families. They grieve. They feel pain. They are afraid of humans just as we will be afraid of aliens who will hunt us for food in the future. If you think I'm crazy so be it, but I can assure you I am not.

Just wanted to let you know that you're not the only person here that feels this way. When I was a teen I went hunting because it was the thing to do, but when I got a deer in my sights I couldn't shoot it. It had never done anything to me, and I don't like the taste of venison, so I let it continue what it was doing. I do understand the arguments for hunting, and agree with them for the most part, I'll just leave it to somebody else to do. Now if an animal tried to hurt me or my family (human animal or otherwise), then I wouldn't have any problem shooting them!

[303Guy]

I've hunted and aimed at and let an animal go. Nothing wrong with that.