model 1873 uberti in 44mag

[no-horse]

i would still like to know . is it safe or not??? thanks

[Larry Gibson]

If'n I was you and wanted one (my .45 Colt M73 Uberti is fine with me) I would email Uberti or Cimeron and ask them if it was safe with SAAMI MAP loads (assuming pressure is what your concern is?). If their answer was positive I would certainkeep a copy of their email stating that and then get one.

I doubt any one here has used a Uberit M73 in 44 Magnum and shot enough SAAMI level MAP loads through it to give a definitive answer.

Larry Gibson

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have owned three 1873 Winchesters and I never fired any of them. When I opened the action and looked at that little finger of metal pressed against the cartridge in the chamber it just did not fill me with confidence. There is no way I would shoot one in 44 mag. I don't care if it was made of modern steel or not. The design is weak.

[no-horse]

i think you guys are right. i think i will stick with the 45colt thanks to all , no horse

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry: where have you been? I haven't seen you post anything lately I was about to PM you and ask where you were, Vacation?

Randy

[bugs]

Do you really belive in this day and age any reputable company would put an unsafe firearm on the market. If one blew up they would be sued for millions. These rifles are not from 1873 they are made of modern steel and metalurgy has come a long way in 140 years

[StrawHat]

All Italian firearms must be proof fired prior to being sold. Those rifles have withstood the proof firing.

Also, here is the other thread you started,

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=157165

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Wow! If you follow links to the source, you can find out amazing things. I went to the Uberti link, and called them. I got directed to the Tech Dept and spoke with this nice young lady; who told me that they have sold a couple thousand in 44 Magnum over the past few years. She says 12 have come back for repairs. All but one for lever spring screws that tend to back out. NO pressure issues.
The weakness of the toggle link design has been a myth of legendary proportions for a hundred years.

Rich

[9.3X62AL]

If'n I was you and wanted one (my .45 Colt M73 Uberti is fine with me) I would email Uberti or Cimeron and ask them if it was safe with SAAMI MAP loads (assuming pressure is what your concern is?). If their answer was positive I would certainkeep a copy of their email stating that and then get one.

I doubt any one here has used a Uberit M73 in 44 Magnum and shot enough SAAMI level MAP loads through it to give a definitive answer.

Larry Gibson

What Larry said.

I chose a RiceChester 92 in 44 Magnum late last year, and I am beyond happy with its quality and performance. I am fond of the '73 rifle pattern, but as said in my post within the earlier thread I'm not certain about that toggle-link action being capable of sustained use of full-tilt 44 Mag loadings. I would imagine that CAS-level loads or '73-level load (200 grainers at 1200-1300 FPS) would be quite safe in that platform.

Let's remember--it doesn't take Magnum ballistics to put venison in the freezer or punch holes in paper. My great-grandfather's 1873 Winchester in 44-40 WCF harvested muleys and blacktails in the dozens, as well as a couple black bears my grandmother saw get rehabilitated. This was done quite efficiently with the 200 grain flatnoses that didn't exceed 1300 FPS, and probably ran closer to 1100 FPS from its 19" barrel. My thoughts are.......if you want the rifle, get it and load it to suit its action strength, pending Uberti's information as to platform integrity.

[45 2.1]

The weakness of the toggle link design has been a myth of legendary proportions for a hundred years. Rich

Exactly.............. P.O. Ackley removed the locking lugs on a 30-30 levergun and shot a factory load in a clean dry chamber to prove that the case seized to the chamber long enough in firing to efectively reduce backthrust to a negligible amount way back then.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry: where have you been? I haven't seen you post anything lately I was about to PM you and ask where you were, Vacation?

Randy

Sold the house here in Washington and moved everything to a storage shed in Lake Havasu City, AZ where we plan on buying a home. Am traveling in RV around the country for the summer. Lost connectivity for a while until I got it figured out and then also got a wifi gizmo so I wouldn't have to go find a "hot spot".

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Larry, congrats on the move to AZ--even if it IS awful close to California. You'll be about 3 hours away from me in LHC, maybe we can hook up for a dove hunt if you're around in September.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Larry: Good to hear you're alright!

Also check out the Havasu City 4 Wheel Drive Club, when you get there. They are good bunch to hook up with. Don't know if you're into Jeeps? But they tend to go well with guns.

Randy

[Larry Gibson]

We're planning on getting to LHC the 1st week or so of September. Been down that way in the winter for several years now, just decided to be sun birds instead of snow birds. We've looked at quite a few places the last couple years and have been going through the MLS listings. We know what we want and will get it. For me it's the man cave with the shop all set up and if the RV garge is big enough I'll build a shooting tunnel to pressure/velocity test loads before heading out to the range for accuracy testing. Hoping to have my own "ballistics lab" set up.

Always will be glad to hook up with fellow hunters and shooters, especially cast bullet shooters when I get set back up. Will be good to tests some loads and go shooting in the desert as LHC is surrounded by BLM and then enjoy a "sundowner" with friends in the the evening.......all are invited!

Larry Gibson

[Larry Gibson]

Bill

I've already located numerous gunshops in that area:grin:

When I get settled give me a shout when you're in the area.

Larry Gibson

[Grapeshot]

Winchester's 1879 test of the Model 1876s action strength

________________________________________

I don't know how many of you fellers have read this, but this excerpt from Bill Hockett's 2002 article on the Centennial Winchester explains the strength testing that Winchester performed on the new model. it is a bit of am eye opener.

"The Model 1876 is the only repeating rifle that had successful, documented use in the northern plains buffalo slaughter. Earlier repeating rifles such as the Henry, Spencer, and Winchester Models of 1866 and 1873 may have seen limited use, but only the Model 1876 was considered by hunters as powerful enough to do the job against the big woolies. The strength of the Model 1876 rifle and the .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge was tested by Winchester in the late 1870s. The factory conducted tests on the strength and reliability of the action to answer concerns by customers. These tests will astound collectors and shooters who have stated the Model 1876's toggle link action is "weak." In response to a letter sent to the company by Charles Hallock, Esquire, of Forest & Stream magazine, Oliver Winchester responded by telling about the tests the factory accomplished on the 1876 rifle. He indicated that engineers first started the tests by removing one of the toggle links and fired 20 rounds (this was with .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge with 350 grain bullet) with no effect. They restored the missing link then went through 6 more trials starting with a charge of 105 grains of black powder, behind a 700 grain bullet! The comment "worked well" is noted. They then increased the charge of powder to 165 grains behind 3 bullets (1,150 grains) and that "worked well." From there, they increased the powder charge to 203 grains and added more bullets until they reached 1,750 grains of lead (five 350 grain bullets). This also "worked well." Finally, they added one more bullet, bringing the total weight to 2,100 grains, and things began to happen. The comment was, "Breech pin slightly bent. Arm working stiff." The seventh and final test was again 203 grains of powder but this time six Martini bullets weighing 480 grains each (2,880 grains) were used. "The charge bent the breech pin, blew out the side plates, split the frame and otherwise disabled the arm," was the comment. Oliver Winchester noted that in this seventh trial, the shell had burst into fragments and the escape of gas at the breech did the damage."

[ReloaderFred]

That's an interesting test, but a friend of mine owns a business selling and working on Uberti Model 66's and 73's. It's his full time job, and he's had several of the 73's returned to him with bent toggles from firing factory .357 Magnum ammunition through the rifles.

When I posed the question concerning the Model 73 in .44 Magnum to him, and whether or not he would shoot one, his reply was, "not in this lifetime".

Hope this helps.

Fred

[HDS]

Yes it was too long to be made to work, sadly.

I dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem it could be that hard (for someone with ubertis equipment and expertise anyway) to make some kind of sliding locking lugs that come up from below as the lever goes up, to lock the toggle links into place and spread out the backwards force on the whole receiver.

Of course by then it would no longer be a true replica and the feel of working the lever would probably have changed too. I'm glad I got a '92 for this, I can dedicate my future 44 to black powder instead.

[Grapeshot]

Yes it was too long to be made to work, sadly.

I dunno about you guys but it doesn't seem it could be that hard (for someone with ubertis equipment and expertise anyway) to make some kind of sliding locking lugs that come up from below as the lever goes up, to lock the toggle links into place and spread out the backwards force on the whole receiver.

Of course by then it would no longer be a true replica and the feel of working the lever would probably have changed too. I'm glad I got a '92 for this, I can dedicate my future 44 to black powder instead.

Then you'd have a Model 1886. The first Magnum Capable Action designed by J.M. Browning.

[HDS]

Yeah, but sadly the gun took a nosedive in the looks department with the new design....

I mean don't get me wrong, the 86/92's are very pretty guns, it's just that next to that epitome of gun design (visually speaking) that is the '73, everything else just kinda pales in comparison.