1903A3 accuracy issue

[45NBLUE]

I have an '03-A3 Remington that until a few months ago shot great.

I'm shooting a Lyman 173 gr cast bullet gas checked with a reduced load of 16.2 gr H-108 (Accurate #9)
This has been a very accurate load for several years.
I weigh the bullets before lube, size and gas check and sort them into groups of .2 gr per group.

Brass is Nosler & LC Match and I'm using Federal Match primers.
Dies are RCBS "X" die - brass has been trimmed but doesn't grow much with the reduced loads.

I recently pulled the rifle out of the CMP "C" stock and put it back into the original straight stock, I replaced the hand guard which required minor fitting at the base so it would fit the ring.

I also added a milled trigger guard and have torqued the front and back trigger guard screws with a Fat wrench.

Any ideas as to how to tighten up the groups would be appreciated.
At 100 yd I can shoot a 10-X on the first shot and follow it up with a 7 on an SR21 target using the same hold point.

[No_1]

You have mentioned 3 recent changes. Change the rifle back to the original (good shooting) configuration to re-establish accuracy then change one item at a time until your accuracy goes away. Once you figure out what causes the accuracy to go away, work that item until the accuracy comes back.

[largom]

You have mentioned 3 recent changes. Change the rifle back to the original (good shooting) configuration to re-establish accuracy then change one item at a time until your accuracy goes away. Once you figure out what causes the accuracy to go away, work that item until the accuracy comes back.


This is the Only way to do this. Change one thing at a time, otherwise it's a dog chasing it's tail.

Larry

[flounderman]

the milled trigger guard might not be fitting right and not allowing the barreled action to bed in the stock. front screw could be bottoming because it's too long and not tightening things together

[45NBLUE]

Changes were made one at a time.
The rifle was brought back to the original condition with the original stock, hand guard and trigger guard.
There doesn't seem to be a difference between the stamped trigger guard and the milled as far as performance.
Each of the changes was done separately before going to the range and the results never got any better. The bore of the rifle is good and the chamber is clean and good, head space is good.
I know better than to make several changes at one time because you never really figure out what was out of whack or what fixed it if you make too many changes at one time.
This rifle has shot 1.5" groups and has cleaned it's share of score targets. It's really baffling.

I appreciate any input.

[Larry Gibson]

There should be 7 - 9 lbs of upward pressure on the bottom of the barrel at the front of the stock. Too much or too little can cause the verticle stringing you describe. Also there should be no pressure or binding on the barrel from the handguard.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

I would never use a wrench to torque the screws of an 03A3. Use the proper size screw driver and enough muscle to know it is down tight. You can over tighten and compress the wood with a huge wrench. This can screw up your bedding, big time.

Save the wrench for stocks that are not made from wood. Over a period of time older wood stocks an take on enough oil and grease to get spongy in the bedding areas. I have had to rebed several with glas to get them back right again.

[45NBLUE]

Torque wrench was used at 20 INCH pound for the front ant 18 INCH pounds on the back as to make sure it wasn't over tightened and also to make sure everything was seated.
That doesn't sound like much but it is solid without over torquing but I'm no expert.

I need to check the upper pressure of the barrel, haven't done that yet.
I'm also going to recheck the milled trigger guard to make sure everything fits properly.
Thanks again for the suggestions.

[leadman]

You haven't changed alloy or lube?

[Char-Gar]

How did you decide that 20 and 18 inch per pounds was not over tight? Where is it written such numbers are what you need for 70 a year old wood stock?

[jimofaz]

Make sure your guard screws are not bottoming out. 03-A3 guard screws are slightly longer than 1903 screws. Switching to a 1903 milled trigger guard may require shorter screws.

[Mr Humble]

If you buy the wrench, it has instructions on the values.

There is a specific Lyman cast bullet covered in the long out of print Hatcher 2 vol cast bullet books from the NRA that works especially well in 2 groves. As I recall it was a 210 gr "bore rider" w/gas check. You must slug A303s as they vary a lot. They are part of history but compared to an interwar real 03 they are rather crude rifles. All you have to do is read Mike's stories in Handloader to understand that getting stock military WW II rifles to shoot well "as issued" is usually a 3 MOA experience.

Try shooting it without the upper handguard and middle barrel band. That may point you to the problem.

[JKH]

Have you shot any full power ball equivalent loads (jacketed) in it yet? Even if you only dismantle a rifle for cleaning and reassemble with the same parts the bedding needs to re-seat, this applies to any rifle with wood bedding and even some that are glassed.

I do agree with the others though, that in making 3 major changes at once you have too many variables, also you need to ditch the torque wrench, with experience you can feel when the stock screws are tight enough for the stock, this is an antique wood stocked battle rifle not a whizbang tcaticool target rifle with super space age plastic stock, it has a soul! Caress it like a beautiful woman and she will respond when you find the right groove ;)

[frnkeore]

One more consideration when using H108 is that it's primer sincitive. If you've change primers the grouping can go off.

Frank

[45NBLUE]

Lube is Lyman Orange - bullets are tumbled in molly before sizing with a .311 sizing die
I haven't shot any full power ammo but I have some LC surplus that I can try.
I've used the H-108 for the past 3 years with Winchester std primers, I did switch to Federal Match primers.
The screws for the trigger guard are OK, I used the set that came with the guard and checked them.
As far as the torque, 18 - 20 inches seems less than hand tightening, I came up with the 18 - 20 from some other Military Bolt action shooters that have rebuilt these rifles and shot them for years.
This rifle had consistently shot 292 - 297 scores out of 300 and groups as small as 1.6" so I know it's capable.

I'm heading back to the range next weekend and plan to implement some of the ideas I've received from you guys.
Thanks again for your input and suggestions, maybe I'll discover what I've done to change a tack driver into a wild flyer.

[RU shooter]

I had this same trouble when I switched to a c stock my pet load went
Out the window. What helped for me was to place a small shim under the barrel at the end of the stock I used a small piece of matchbook cover folded over . Wasn't very thick maybe .020
That tightened my groups up alot still couldn't get my old pet loads to shoot as good as before though but I did some testing and found a few that shoot even better .

[220swiftfn]

Torque wrench was used at 20 INCH pound for the front ant 18 INCH pounds on the back as to make sure it wasn't over tightened and also to make sure everything was seated.
That doesn't sound like much but it is solid without over torquing but I'm no expert.

I need to check the upper pressure of the barrel, haven't done that yet.
I'm also going to recheck the milled trigger guard to make sure everything fits properly.
Thanks again for the suggestions.

That might be your problem....... drop the rear guard screw down to 10 or so. (If even that much, benchrester's usually just have them in there finger tight so it looks "nice" and has no chance of flexing the action.)



Dan

[fwm]

I would try the Win primers again first and if that doesn't tighten things up again I would loosen the guard screws and then tighten them up good and tight without the torque gauge. Tighten the front one first. I know this isn't scientific but I think its worth a try. Bring your torque screw driver to the range and play with different settings as well to find out what works best. Nothing to lose but time.