Mould for GC: will work without GC?

[arthury]

If a mould will cast a bullet with a base shaped for a GC, will it cause gas-cutting if I do not have a GC seated on the bullet?

[Chicken Thief]

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/bart_google-1.jpg


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=48857

[Chicken Thief]

Sorry for the rant but please do search a little before asking obvious questions.

[gray wolf]

There is a good chance it will not shoot that well. If it's made for a gas check use a gas check. However you can try it, depends on your standards, I wouldn't.
As it has been suggested try the search function here at the forum.
If you were a long time member I guess my patients with some questions would be a little short also. I guess being new is in your favor.

[Wolfer]

I haven't had much luck with searching stuff here, guess I don't know how. What I have had good luck with is gas check boolits without a gas check. Velocity has to be kept fairly low ( 1000-1200 fps ) and a faster than normal powder works best, like unique or faster.
These plinkers are fun to shoot and can be very accurate.
Good luck, Woody

[canyon-ghost]

At one time, there was an entire line of bullets featuring a 'rebated base'. That's about what it would compare to. Yes, you can shoot it without a gas check but, you'd be better off with the check installed. The powder charge will have to swell the middle section of the driving bands, that's usually why a gas check is used. If the load is fast enough at an accurate velocity, it will work. If not, you will have a less than accurate plinker.

That's pretty much why or why not.

Ron

[arthury]

Sounds good, thanks!

My original thots were these: since the base (without the GC) is narrower than the upper section, the hot gases will might push themselves to the mid-section and get a good seal there.
Along the way, though, the gases may still melt some of the base since they have slipped passed the non-checked base.

My question was for my attempt with the 500SW cartridge, btw; and my loads are usually magnum loads.

[Bigbore4me]

I have had good luck with shooting gas check bullets without the gas checks. However, I had one mold I had the gas check milled down on which of course dropped the weight about 40gr for a 45 Cal mold. I'm not sure if it is recommeded but it worked fine for me. Might be an option if shooting the bullets without gas checks doesn't work out.

[btroj]

For the 235,395,402,290 th time, it depends.

For a 500 SW with magupnum loads I would be inclined to say nope. Pressure gets to be enough that a check is best on bullets designed for them.

My question is this- why spend that much for a revolver and brass and what all then go cheap on bullets and leave the check off?

Oh yeah, the search function here works really well.

[jblee10]

I know there are some that widen the gascheck area of molds. This will increase the weight slightly. I have heard some say they have had success shooting boolits with no gas checks installed. I have never had much success doing that, but I haven't shot many that way either. For instance, I wanted a 30 cal mold with no gas check. So I bought a RCBS 30-150-cm and use it for lighter loads. If I wanted to shoot something heavier without gaschecks, I think I would have a mold modified to cast a plain base bullet.

[williamwaco]

Guys!

He only has 17 posts!

Give him a little time to learn to use the site.

.

[Elkins45]

I've been reading the answer to this question on a pretty regular basis since I joined this site...and I've disagreed with the conventional wisdom of "it depends" every time. I have yet to find a caliber/powder/loob combination that shot worth a darn without the gas check. I've tried everything from 38 special target loads to 30 cal rifle and all have flung patterns w/o a check.

But the good news is that it costs practically nothing to load up a few to try. Just don't crank out 1000 before you test them.

[geargnasher]

Good question, it gets asked here so much there's a sticky on it. Go to the "Gas Check" sub-forum and look at the fourth sticky topic by Bret4207. You will probably not find the exact answer you are looking for, but you will find what THE answer is after you do some shooting to find out how your particular combination works.

Gear

[ShooterAZ]

I tried it once in a Mosin Nagant rifle....huge mistake. It leaded the throat like crazy. I will always use the gas checks on a gas check boolit.

[sthwestvictoria]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_209935000d8c0aa93e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5875)

[runfiverun]

i have better luck asking a search engine then following the link back to here.
maybe it's the way i process information.

[Elkins45]

i have better luck asking a search engine then following the link back to here.
maybe it's the way i process information.

I don't think it's just you. Most of the commercial search businesses depend on having an accurate algorithm because it's the bread and butter. Almost every forum I belong to runs vBulletin, and their core business isn't their search function. I have much better luck with a Google search with the advanced option "site:castboolets.gunloads.com" than if I run the exact same search here from the menu.

[GP100man]

In my experience the more pressure ya put behind it the squirelier it gets ,especially on short handgun style boolits.

Buckshot has just about removed all the GC shanks on my handgun molds !

[sw282]

After spending the last 7 of my 26 years w/Uncle Sams Army as an instructor let me say the ONLY dumb question is an UNASKED question. This is a forum for talking of LOVE of a hobby and passion. There should be no perceived disrespect of those inquiring minds that may be less Knowledgable than others

[arthury]

After spending the last 7 of my 26 years w/Uncle Sams Army as an instructor let me say the ONLY dumb question is an UNASKED question. This is a forum for talking of LOVE of a hobby and passion. There should be no perceived disrespect of those inquiring minds that may be less Knowledgable than others

Well said!

Just so everyone know, I usually Google and search all I can before I ask. The question at hand seem peculiar in nature and I did not find much that's relevant in my search. This question is not about what a GC is nor about why use a GC or about other basics of GC. So, bear with me.

[ku4hx]

I haven't had much luck with searching stuff here,

Use Google. Generally you'll get a hit on this forum at the top of the list if not dead first on the list. And you often get opinions from other forums and sources; a win/win situation.

[Bret4207]

If a mould will cast a bullet with a base shaped for a GC, will it cause gas-cutting if I do not have a GC seated on the bullet?

There is an ENTIRE SECTION titled "GAS CHECKS" down the page that was created because this question gets asked at least once a week on average. Read the stickies there.

[arthury]

Thanks, Bret.
That's helpful. Sorry for the noise.

For anyone with the same question: it's here

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=65035

[45-70 Chevroner]

Guys!

He only has 17 posts!

Give him a little time to learn to use the site.

.

+1 Poor guy hasn't even got his feet wet yet.
If you shoot magnum loads by all means use a gas check. A gas check pistol boolit will work without a GC but only for midrange loads or light target loads, nothing over 700 FPS. All rifle GC boolits require a GC.
After reading the Sticky I'm probably all wet about rifle boolits and GC's but I have just never had any luck shooting GC rifle boolits with out the GC.

[armexman]

Mr. Chevroner, 30-30 with WC820 and no gas checks at 1400fps make great and accurate introductory cartridges for first time shooters. Just saying, this will be affected by your mileage.
Arthury, search/reach and search/read again. You too will reach Nirvana. As you are shooting pistol; read what you can do with well fitted boolits; I shoot 41Mag at 12 and 13 hundred with no leading. Only after I had removed pre-conceived notions.

[ncbearman]

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm153/Chickenthief/Blandet/Smilere/bart_google-1.jpg



Wow.............this sure does encourage me to be a part of this forum. What a d--- head. I bet your a barrel of laughs to be around. Others have said it more eloquently than I but really..........................if it makes you this mad just to answer a question then you need another hobby, and a life.

[btroj]

Let's see, the question hasn't been as popular lately but in the last year I bet that exact same question has been asked at least once a week. It gets quite tiresome.

I spent a bunch of time on this site as a lurker, not an asker. I learned much by reading what others were doing and trying things.

Nobody here can say for certain what any load, bullet, etc will do in any gun until we pull the trigger.

Best advice I can give to any newbie is to get off the computer and do what I did. Cast em, load em, shoot em. Do that and you will start to really learn. Observe what did or didn't work for you. Just because something works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. Your gun and target are the real test.

To answer the original question- I don't know. Why don't you test it and see and get back to us. That is what I would do.

[bobthenailer]

Ive done it with great success with about 2 different cast bullets in about 4 different guns, for loads under 1,100 fps with accuracy equaling the GC bullet and no leading!

[HARRYMPOPE]

I tried it once in a Mosin Nagant rifle....huge mistake. It leaded the throat like crazy. I will always use the gas checks on a gas check boolit.


When driven at 1450 or above with no GC they often shoot patterns.I haven't found a GC bullet in 30 caliber design that shoots well as a GC shoot poorly when the velocity is adjusted for a plain base bullet and the check omitted.In fact they often outshoot "real" plainbase bullets.I own 14 plain base 30 caliber molds i have compared.

George

the NEI #72 Ed Harris bullet with no GC at 100 yards at 1200 fps ( typical groups- It shots about 1/2" smaller with a GC.


it will shoot 10 shot groups at 200 yards under 4" when there is readable wind.

[HARRYMPOPE]

Ive done it with great success with about 2 different cast bullets in about 4 different guns, for loads under 1,100 fps with accuracy equaling the GC bullet and no leading!


yes sir.

[Bret4207]

Wow.............this sure does encourage me to be a part of this forum. What a d--- head. I bet your a barrel of laughs to be around. Others have said it more eloquently than I but really..........................if it makes you this mad just to answer a question then you need another hobby, and a life.

The point is that a great deal of effort and work has gone into establishing appropriate sections in the forum and getting the important threads "stickied" so that people can find the basics easily, and this question is very basic. Between the forum search and Google search and all the other search engines there should be several hours of reading in depth discussions on the pro, cons, whys and hows on anything you can think of here. I have reams of threads printed off going back into the mid 90's on this stuff. I don;t think there has been an original question asked here on cast shooting in several years. Gas checks, lubes, boolit design, alloys, powder, neck tension, FIT, FIT, FIT! It's all here already.

[wmitty]

This question helped push me into trying paper patching about a year ago. I am really glad I did! Yesterday I was launching the RCBS .37-250-FN from a .375 H&H at very close to jacketed velocity with fine accuracy. It's a gas check design and no gas check is required!

[Jack Stanley]

I like the idea btroj has and I generally read much more than I post . There are a few places where I read and still am looking for a little more .... "experience" shall we say . Converting a double barrel shotgun into a double rifle would be one example . With that , I am just plain ignorant :oops:

After years of government service , I have learned there are dumb questions asked . Or rather call them questions that are calculated to stretch out how many hours a job will take . Sometimes they are designed to avoid actual work completely and it works I'm sorry to say [smilie=l:

My own experience I found bullets without checks will work , ya still have to make them fit the throat and the powder charge need to be right . My 1903 has fired thousands of rounds with such a set up . Though someone else trying it might want to know the range is less than fifty yards and velocities less than twelve hundred :razz:I works good and shoots using the battle sight on any 03 I've found .

Like the man said , don't crank out thousand before you test 'em . That is inexpensive experience .

Jack

[GRid.1569]

.........if it makes you this mad just to answer a question then you need another hobby, and a life.

...or I think I'd just pass on the response and allow somebody else to answer it...


I recall being new to all this and as has been said already new guys need some space to learn the routine....

but remember the old saying "There's no such thing as a stupid question - except the one you didn't ask...."

[303Guy]

Well, for me, I'd rather ask and have a real live interaction with folks than sit and research it but then I'm a bad researcher. I do try from time to time but I prefer asking.

[mold maker]

For a new caster, having to read all the stickeys and threads to avoid asking a "DUMB" question, would eliminate me from the hobby.
Before jumping on someone for asking an already discussed question, stop and remember, you weren't always so smart.
I've been a caster for 50+ years and I still have some "DUMB" questions.

[RobsTV]

This is along the same lines of a question I asked a month ago.
Seems the biggest issue with the 500 S&W is not the velocity, but the pressure, which in the 500 can be as high as 60,000psi.

Since you wish to shoot the 500 as it was made to be shot, with Magnum loads of course, then the pressure generated combined with velocity, and no, you can not skip the GC. Technically you can shoot very hard boolits without GC, but you lose accuracy as well.

If you are going through all the trouble to shoot a $1100+ revolver and heavy expensive lead rounds, then spending 3.5 cents on gas checks might bring the total cost of each cast boolit up to a nickle, with the true accuracy all your hard work and money paid for. If it is not accurate, then seems like a waste of time and money.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=156448

[flounderman]

I didn't particularly like the tone of some of your answers. You can ask someone or you can experiment. experimenting is how you get experience. better to ask someone that has already got the experience and save yourself the problems that go along with getting the experience. In a rifle, you can paper patch and not gas check. I don't know how that would work in a revolver. probably not too well. gas check means just what it says. I would have the gas check removed from the mold which would give you a heavier bullet with a flat base, then cast a hard alloy and water drop it. you can oven harden them some more if you still have leading problems. everyone on here has loaded their first cartridge or cast their first bullet at some time. anytime you have a question, don't hesitate to ask. there are some very knowledgeable people on here and you will learn who to pay attention to if you follow the site and read the posts.

[bigboredad]

I can see both sides of this topic on the one hand before I try something I try to look to see if it has been done and what was their experience then experience it for yourself see what you find out does it match someone else probably not but now you know for sure.

I suck at searching for the things I need answers to it gets very frustrating and always appreciate when someone will point me to a sticky I may have missed in my haste or to a thread or even a keyword so I can learn how to search. But this is my experience only mine just like when I tried gas check bullets with out checks with one style no so I had the gas check portion removed and it added about 5 gr to the bullet the other one so far so good but haven't done much with it lately. JMO and experience youe WILL be different. BUt good luck and enjoy your new hobby even failure is a good learning experience