Hillbilly

[bigted]

:roll: well i think that i qualify for being a hillbilly in the sense that im about as much set in my ways as anybody. i even get set before some of the new things get the green wore off a bit.

so it is with this paperpatchin stuff for me. i love the blackpowder and all the pomp n circumstance that goes with it.

i started this patchin thing with duplex loads and they work great even to the chagrin of some. i can load bore dia boolits or groove dia boolits...kinda got sidetracked with the lazy reloading of the groove diameter stuff becouse of the 'no sizing the cases' thing. then when i got into the groove diameter thought i could not get it outta my mind why a person would ever load to bore or under and have all that sizing stuff to do as well as deal with lose boolits in a sized case to boot...then i got a lee factory crimp die and found i could crimp just enough with it to seize the boolit so it wouldnt fall outta the case.

my next step was to compare the groove diameter boolits with the 1/4inch cookie in the case ...to the just under bore diameter with the same 1/4 inch cookie in the case. then the words of a feller here came thundering thru the fog..."i could load that under bore boolit out into the rifling and have more room for my powder".

SHAZAM...

so...low and behold i loaded 70 grains of cartridge in the case first [and alone with no smokless kicker] and installed my wax paper on top...then i decided arbritrarilly on a 3/8ths compression of the powder which i performed with ease...next came the 1/4 inch cookie on top of the compressed powder and wax paper followed by the .060 wad purchased from baco. this left me room for the 400 grain hollow base pure lead boolit from baco also... papered up to .447 inch. this was lose in the case so the 20 i prepared i took the shortest one and made all the coal the same in the press followed by the lee factory crimp with just enough crimp to hold the patched boolit in the case firmly but not enough to hurt the patch.

took these out in the yard for some informal testing as to whether these would shoot rite and how they would act in my winchester as well as how round a hole they would make...wowww what a nice surprise...they filled the chamber and allowed no blowby in there...they didnt lead my barrel in the least...by the flutter of paper bits i believe they made the journey clear to the end of my barrel...the portin that was tucked into the hollow base was laynig in a 2 foot area around 10 feet in front of the muzzle...they all made nice round holes in the short range target.


needless to say...i think im coming to the same conclussion as the majority here in that it is way esier to load into the barrel my boolits of smaller diameter and depend on the bp to bump them to what they need to be. im not finished with my spearmintin yet tho...havnt tryed them at any yardage so the jury is still out but i feel im makin bag with this bp patchin stuff finally. jest seems like a mule eared longarmed jackdonkey like myself just takes a bit longer to grasp the whole carrot when it is offered sometimes. id love to take a shortcut to the end sometime and depend on others experience to do so but i dont think that is in the cards for this muleheaded aminal.

thanks for all the wisdom and experience found here...some like it hot and fast and others like it cool n slow...guess which one i am...LOL

:roll:...:drinks:...:mrgreen:...[smilie=1:

by the by...those rounds even smelled like they were spose to !!! dont know bout others...but i could smell that dirty smokless in them duplex loads rite away...just didnt want to admit it!8-)

[1874Sharps]

BigTed,

Wahoo, I am glad to hear of your success! Keep us posted as you experiment, for I am sure others beside myself would like to hear of it. There are many ways to skin the BP PP cat and alot of them depend on the type of shooting, the rules (if shooting competitively), your expectations, etc.

For me the answer was shooting a six thousandths inch tapered 520 grain PP boolit that patches to 0.454" at the base and 0.448" at the nose end of the bearing surface. This allowed a deep reach into the chamber throat and the ability to taper crimp the base into the brass for a secure fit. This suited my need for a round that would hold together in the field for hunting as well as the range and still hold 67 to 70 grains of BP in my 45-70. Many competitive target shooters take a different approach. I sustained a nerve injury on active duty and competitive shooting is not in the cards anymore for me so I do not much think about it. I do not see why your approach will not work just as well and wish I had thought of it!

Fouling quickly builds up in the throat and barrel of a BPCR, which is why the most rigorously accurate shooting demands wiping (or swabbing as we navy types call it) the bore after each shot. Of course the lube requirements change if you do this, too. Many, however, seek the Holy Grail of BPCR shooting: We want to be able to shoot round after round without swabbing the bore with no degradation of accuracy. Here in South Texas where it is very hot and humid the climate seems to help toward this goal and will allow me to shoot around 12 to 15 rounds without blow tubing or swabbing on a warm day of high atmospheric moisture. The chemical composition of the BP fouling changes slightly, too, under these conditions when compared to cooler, dry days. This is likely a variable that makes a difference when striving for that Holy Grail. Does one really need to be able to shoot 12 shots in a row on a hunt? No, only one or two shots are generally needed. But it is without doubt a fun pursuit!

[bigted]

:holysheep...:takinWiz:

well i hit my range today to take these papered boolits to task and find out if they would treat me kindly...fast answer is NO !!

i had a fairly large variety of loads to try and also had some greesers that i brought along to sight in with. they consisted of the lyman 457125 boolit with 60 grains cartridge behind a 1/4 inch cookie and loaded out to kiss the rifling with the front drive band and shot in my browning hiwall bpcr heavy half round half octagon barrel.

the paperpatch loads went from baco's .441 pure lead to baco's mould for a 500 grain slick of .444 diameter...also had along some .454 diameter boolits from an accurate mould that throws a 390 grain slick. all the .441's were loaded with between 65 and 75 grains cartridge. the .444 boolits were half duplex left over and half cookied over 65 grains cartridge...the .454's were loaded over a cookie and 65 grains cartridge.

the .441's were patched to .447 inch diameter...the .444's were patched to .450 inch...the .454's were patched to .460 inch.

all loaded in remington cases and sparked with cci 200 large rifle primers.

so i began the shoot with the greesers at 50 yards to make certain my leopold 6 to 18 x scope was sighted in properly and to ensure that i had taken as much of myself outta the endeaver as is possible. to begin with im impressed with the way this scope mounts back on my hiwall with the same point of impact...so my begining group was a 3/4 inch hole minus the opening shot thru a clean barrel.

thinking that the sun was shining on me i opened a set of the .441's to ensure i would be on target with them and after letting fly at the 50 yard line i looked thru my scope turned up to 18 to check the holes and low n behold they were scattered like a shotgun. so i cleaned my rifle and had at it again assuming something had gone wrong...nope same thing...these horrible 3 and 4 inch + groups were still at the 50 yard line. so staying there i began to shoot other combo's in 5 shot groups and wound up with the same patterns as with the first .441's i began with. cleaning between every 5 shots and shooting a first fouler prior to each group

wondering if my scope was haywire somehow i thumbed in 5 more of the greesers and BAMM they all went into the same small hole as the begining shots had.

so now i thought i had some leading to deal with so i scrubbed the bore with butchs bore shine...[origanal] followed with some shooters choice and this always removes the lead for me...even the lead i couldnt see...nothing on the very tight patch's

so im puzzeled by these hummers letting me down so completely. guess its back to the drawing board for some study in what went so wrong with what i was sure was going to be a delightfull day of tight holed groups with these patched boolits...none of which seemed to want to group for me at all.

as i write this i can see something that didnt occur to me before...the loads all consisted of between 390 grain boolits and 420 grain boolits...except the baco .444's which were 500 grain boolits and they grouped the closest then any of the rest...maybe this rifle with the 18 inch twist just wants longer boolits......HMMMMM!! guess i have a place to start with anyhow.

had a hoot shooting these tho. the big boom and large cloud never dissapoints. and the sumptious aromma...whats not to like.

[kullas]

Any day at the range is a good day at the range. and sounds like ya got a place to start now to just build on that. Cheers