sucumbed to the dark side, purchased a Lee Die Set.

[handyman25]

After all the folks on this forum saying they like Lee dies I thought I would try a set. Got a set of 38 S&W and gave them a try. Sized a case and the inside of the case is .358, Lee lists the bullet at .357-.358 loads using a lead bullet. Too me this is not a good fit but will work if I use a good tight crimp but I would not be happy if I were using bullet of .357-.358. I am usig a friends Lee mold. 105gr swc that casts at .361. Just right for my S&W safey hammerless. So this sizing die will work very well for me but I am not sure it would work for everyone. The second problem I noticed was that the expander rod was not finished well, felt like it was threaded with a fine thread. This did not cause a problem because the diameter was .356 (the third problem) and did nothing to the case. I e-mailed Lee asking if this was the proper size expander as I feel that .358-.359 would be proper. Lee's reply was yes it is the proper size expander and if I wanted a .358 or .359 the cost would be $30 (plus shipping but not sure if shipping was extra) and would take 6 weeks. I ordered a RCBS cowboy expander in .361 for $7.95 plus shipping a three day wait because of usps not RCBS.

So my impresson of Lee dies if not what I would call good. The lure of its cheap got me again, when will I learn.:killingpc If I am wrong and a die set makes the inside of the case the same size as the bullet (Lee lists lead bullets in the paper work with the die set) and this is correct and if a expander should feel like a fine thread and if the expander should be 2 thousands smaller than the case then let me know.

[1hole]

I don't quite know what you've said. ??

[handyman25]

Sorry I was not clear. My problem with the Lee die set mainly is the expander is not smooth and 2 thousands under sized. Lee claims this is correct but I do not agree. I am I right or wrong?.

[jblee10]

I'm thinking if the inside of a sized case is .358 and the expander is .356, the expander is right and the size die is oversized by .002

[r1kk1]

I believe he is referring to the 38 s&w not 38 special.

Take care

r1kk1

[geargnasher]

Lee Powder-Thru expanders are worthless for cast boolits, always have been. They're too short and always the wrong size.

Gear

[r1kk1]

Sorry I was not clear. My problem with the Lee die set mainly is the expander is not smooth and 2 thousands under sized. Lee claims this is correct but I do not agree. I am I right or wrong?.

I think you are the right path as the 38 s&w takes from .360-.326 bullets depending on your guns chamber mouths. I take it you measured this.

I think the die you have would make for some great 38 spl wad cutters.

30.00 is too much for an expander to be made!

Post some groups from that old timer!

Take care

r1kk1

[r1kk1]

Meant to say .360-.362 sized bullets.

What I get for roasting vegs and typing.

Sorry

r1kk1

[Char-Gar]

Say 6 "Hail RCBSs" and send five dollar to Redding for their company picnic. Go and sin no more.

[1hole]

"My problem with the Lee die set mainly is the expander is not smooth and 2 thousands under sized."

I don't think you have a problem. That diameter expander will likely produce some 3 thou of what gets called "neck tension" and 3 thou is what a LOT of people seem to prefer. (Not me, I prefer about half that, but what do I know? :) )

Smooth and highly polished expanders look really nice but some visible machining marks really have no bad effects in their use.

[r1kk1]

Say 6 "Hail RCBSs" and send five dollar to Redding for their company picnic. Go and sin no more.

Lol!

Can't. Just sent CH4D money for a .17 Super Jet form and loading die set.

Take care and love one another,

r1kk1

[Hang Fire]

For a $$$ price, I am sure custom dies are available to size within 0.00001" of desired diameter

In all phases of reloading, I know I am going to have glitches which will have to be worked around.

[44Vaquero]

Just to muddy the waters a bit. My set of Lee 38 S&W sizes case .381 O.D. and .355 I.D. and my ex-pander starts out @ .356.
As I only load Hornady hollow based wad-cutters in my Webley It's never been an issue.

[Guesser]

Been using my Lee 38 S&W die set for 12 years on my cast boolits sized .360 for two S&W Regulation Police revolvers. Have never found a reason to even think about taking measurements of the die components, as the ammunition comes out to exactly what I need for the guns. For me, Lee has never presented me with a problem that I didn't create myself.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Lee's reply was yes it is the proper size expander and if I wanted a .358 or .359 the cost would be $30 (plus shipping but not sure if shipping was extra)

Someone got confused somewhere in the discussion as that $30 price tag is for the die. A custom plug is eight bucks in todays economy i believe. The factory plug is $3 and the die is $13.98. Lee uses the 38 ACP/super plug in the S&W expander. Lee used to polish the powder through expander mirror smooth, but now they are very rough and intentionally so according to lee as it's supposed to be a feature for use with the AD powder measure. Lee expanders are sized for j bullets ("the minimum amount so cases will last longer") but you would think as large as their boolit mold sales are that they would ship the dies with an secondary expander designed for boolits...now there's an idea.

[Bret4207]

If, as claimed, Lee thinks the 38 S+W takes .357-8 boolits, then we have a problem right from the start. FWIW, my Lee 38S+W dies a bit tight too. After buying them Deputy Al advised the 9mm Mak dies work better.

I use a LOT of Lee's stuff, but it's very easy for me to believe they think the 38S+W uses .357-8 boolits. Just look at their 8x56R mould that drops .329 booltis! Useless. This is part of the reason I put small faith in Lees books.

[Bullfrog]

Say 6 "Hail RCBSs" and send five dollar to Redding for their company picnic. Go and sin no more.

BAHAHAHAHA I burst out laughing literally! Thank you !

[2ndAmendmentNut]

By no means am I knocking you reloading, but I'll be honest I have usually waited for results on paper targets before analyzing and measuring dies and guns. In regards to Lee dies in general I have found them to be of quality equal to and in some case better than the other common labels out there (RCBS, Lyman, Hornady) with the exception of their pistol expanding dies to be a touch undersized and a little to unsettling on the down stroke.

[1Shirt]

Never could see a use for the powder thru dies! Just me I guess!
1Shirt!:coffeecom

[fryboy]

i dont use powder thru expanding dies for everything but considering the fact that now many other companies make and sell them when before they didnt... there's times when they are nice ( like progressive pistol loading ) but for the most part ( and even tho they sell molds ) lee's dies seemed to be geared towards j-words , no matter who makes the dies i buy i always polish the expander , smooth is as smooth does in my humble opinion and just flitzing them alone helps ( again in my humble opinion ) yes sir it would be nice if they came with two or more expanders ( ie; like my m-43 dies from them )

[Boyscout]

I use the powder through die for .45 ACP with the Classic 4-Turrett. I have been very satisfied with it and have no problems. The other 3 dies are RCBS.

[TheDoctor]

I would have to agree with the majority, that the powder through expander dies do not expand enough for ME. Not enough for cast. If I try to seat Speer DCHP, it takes too much pressure and tends to close the cavity. If I try to seat 300 grain 44 mag, I buckle the case. Would probably work ok with light for caliber bullets. Finish on them to me is too rough, and even after polishing, they don't want to pull out of my brass, making a very jerky press stroke. I use the dies for the powder through feature, but use a different expander die first.

[FergusonTO35]

My .38 Special powder through expander works perfectly. My 9mm expander is very rough to operate and doesn't do such a great job if you're loading boolits. CB forum member The Amateur made me a new plug for the 9mm that works great, then he found out that the .38 S&W plug is perfect for this application and is like $3.00. I'm going to order one soon.

[jonk]

So let's see.

1. You bought a die set from a major manufactuer that (so far as I know) as a standard sizes for a .357" bullet- whatever reality may be with these guns, most people only have access to that diameter, so that's what the company makes. Pretty much any new manufactured die in this caliber will need opening up of the seating die to reliably work for larger diameter bullets.

2. You note that the expander provides around 1-2/1000" neck tension- which is in fact IDEAL for most circumstances. Yet you complain of shoddy worksmanship.
3. You asked how much it would cost to modify the die; they quoted a price you didn't like. Fair enough, your choice.

What you SHOULD have done is order a set of 9X18 Makarov dies; nominally sizing for .363 and sizing the necks at .361 ID is absolutely perfect for the .38 S&W.

I have never had issue with powder through dies even for cast lead. Ever. It flares them PERFECTLY if you know how to adjust; I just loaded 500 rounds of .311" 120 gr lead for my M1 carbine in the stock Lee dies with no hiccups. The flare was perfect to just clear the gas check and allow seating, and the seater crimped them to a nice taper, as needed for the chamber. If you got a dud, Lee will make it right.

[r1kk1]

Handyman, have you got it worked out yet? I've had a similar experience with a Ruger Vaquero in 44-40. Ruger says in spec, sent back, yadda, yadda. Now they fixed it finally and used a Redding die set with a CH4D taper crimp and works like a charm. The Redding profile crimp die was in spec, so they wouldn't modify it to accept .430" bullets. I have a Lee rifle FCD to try it.

I have a friend who has a 38 S&W revolver that is a hoot to shoot with heel type bullets from a Rapine mould. I have one in .32 Long Colt.

I wish Starline made 32 Long Colt brass.

Take care

r1kk1

[handyman25]

Time to respond. First thanks to all for your respones.
Geargmasher - I agree that the Lee powder thru expander is not very good. This opinion is limited by my expenerce on my 38 s&w die set and a friends 380 acp die set.

r1kk1 - Sorry I can not post picks I have not learned how to do it, yet. My revolver is a S&W safety hammerless, double action only but it shoots very well with a .3605 bullet (barrel is .359) I can hit a beer can at 25 yards every time off a sand bag if I do my part. Groups run at 2inches to 2 1/4" again off a sand bag. I think a good shooter could do better. I have finished my "6 hail RCBS" thanks.

1hole - the lee die sizes the case to .3585 inside diamenter. With a .356 expander it does nothing to the case. With a .358 bullet thier is no neck tension.

44Vaquero - My Lee 38 S&W dies size to .3585.

Guesser - yes I do over check things. My thoughts were that a 38 S&W took a .360 bullet. Lees instructions said it takes .357-.358 bullets, if that is true then should't the inside of the case be sized to .355 to .357?

Bret4207 - the dies do not size tight they size loose.

2ndAmendmentNut - You may be right, whoever, before loading a lead bullet I check the grove diamenter so I can use a bullet about 1.5 thousands over grove diamenter. I have been reloading and casting bullets since 1960. In God I trust, all others I reserve the right to check. That includes all brands even RCBS.

To sum it up. The Lee expander in my opinion is poorly made. The Lee dies I got do not size enough for a .357 to .358 bullet. I think Lee's instructions are wrong, a 38 S&W uses a .360 bullet not a .357-.358, it does not matter that almost all lead bullets in that range are .357-.358, Lee should post the proper size is .360. They make bullet molds. I have cast a Lee 105 swc and it mikes at .361. A .358 bullet falls into the case and could be difficult to crimp. If I use a .3605 bullet then everything is ok (Remember Lee says use a .357-.358 bullet). If you like Lees dies then great but I will not be buying them. This thread was to find out if I got a unusal set of dies or making poor assumptions, I am not complaining about the cost of the dies. I now use Lee bullet size dies and like them. I am thinking about a 30-40 krag collet die but now I am not sure that Lee would be a good move.

[r1kk1]

I have not bought Lee production stuff for a couple of decades or more. I have had a lot of stuff made on their custom order side - bullet sizers, case length gauges, moulds, collet dies, etc. It must be a different group of workers on the custom side. I have no complaints as of yet. If I do I'll send it back till it is right by me.

I would send in a couple of dummies with bullets seated for the collet die. I have never shot a 30-40 Krag and think it would be great in an Encore.

Take care

r1kk1

[MT Chambers]

That's the beauty of Lee dies.