Reloading pulled .312 into 300 Win Mag or .30-06 AI?

[jkpq45]

Hello All,

What would you consider the "minimum safe" groove/land diameter through which to shoot .312" projectiles? What about .311"?

I have a bunch of pulled bullets from surplus 7.62x54R and 7.62x39 that I'd like to use in two other calibers--.30-06AI and 300 Winchester Magnum. I haven't slugged their bores yet, but, assuming they're .308"/.300" per SAAMI spec.

Flame on!
jkpq45

[Ben]

.312 projectiles in a .308 bore can and will cause excessive pressure problems.

.312 projectiles in a .311 bore is a safe combination.

[paul h]

You could run them through a .308" swage die to get them to the proper dia. There might be some slight springback from the lead core which could degrade accuracy. A friend wanted to have heavier .358" rifle bullets so ran 9.3mm (.366") jacketed bullets through a swage die and reported resonable accuracy.

If the necks in your chambers are sufficiently generous to allow chambering rounds seated with .312" bullets you might be able to work up reduced loads keep pressures to safe levels. That said, you'd be completely on your own with load work and would really need to use pressure measuring equipment to safely work up a load, just like the big boys.

I'd suggest you are likely much better off selling the bullets to someone looking for blaster bullets out of their AK or SKS and buying .308" bullets for your -06 improved or win mag.

[nanuk]

if you read Ackley's take on it, the bullets squeeze down just fine in the bore, as long as the throat and leade allow it

the problem arises where the neck diameter of the loaded round can become too large and not allow a release. This then creates a closed vessel trying to hold a lot of pressure....

I've not done any testing, and have shot pulled bullets in a 30cal bore, but I won't recommend it.
I'll just say this, You are on your own when using a projectile that was not designed for your cartridge/rifle bore.

If you need to ask, then I'd suggest you heed the advice of someone like Ben who has BTDT and not only lived to tell about it, but has a closet full of T-shirts.

Here is a suggestion
put them on the EE as trading fodder.... SOMEONE NEEDS that size of bullet and probably has the 308's YOU NEED.

[nanuk]

Paul: Lee Precision has documentation where they suggest using their Lee Sizer Dies to do exactly that with Jaxketed bullets....

and I have read many accounts of sizing .375's down to .366 with absolutely no issues

[bumpo628]

Yeah, I would just trade or sell them in the forum and get what you need.

[Larry Gibson]

DEPENDS

As to jacketed bullets;

I have been shooting pulled AK/SKS 123-125 gr bullets and commercial bulk 123-125 gr .310 - .311 bullets in numerous .308 cals without problem and no signs of excessive psi's. However, I always worked up the load using normal load development practices.

I've recently conducted a pressure test of 123 gr AK/SKS bullets and Nosler 125 gr BT .308 bullets over the same load in a .308W rifle with .308 groove diameter. The load was 43 gr of 4895 in LC cases with a WLR primer. The 125 gr .308 Nosler BT ran 2836 fps at 45,300 psi(M43). The 123 gr Russian .311 FMJBT with a steel jacket ran 2798 fps at 46,100 psi(M43). Not a whole lot of difference and neither was any where near the SAAMI MAP for the .308W.

I also tested a Sierra 150 gr .308 SP, a Hornady .312 gr 150 gr SP and a .311 Albanian 7.62x54R 148 gr FMJBT with steel jacket and steel core. The load was the same 43 gr 4895 in LC cases with a WLR primer. The Sierra 150 SP ran 2717 fps at 50,600 psi(M43). The Hornady .312 SP ran 2805 fps at 62,100 psi(M43). The Albanian 148 gr ran 2872 fps at 73,000 psi.

That's what I found out by actually measuring psi's. I know what I will shoot and what I won't shoot in .308 caliber bores. What anyone shoots is up to them. My recomendation is if you are going to use any over sized jacketed bullet you definately use a medium to slow burning powder for the cartridge and work up carefully as with some bullets the psi can go high very quickly.

Over size cast bullets are a different story entirely.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

once you go over about 311 in a 308 bore you run into chambering problems in some rifles.
i have fired a ton of .310 125 gr bullets in my mia.
i lowered the load and come back up [i ended up a half grain less on the load]
not due to pressure signs, it was where the accuracy was and the brass ended up in the same pile.
my initial load was one grain lower than Larry's, same cases and stuff though.

[shotman]

one problem is many of the bullets that are in foriegn ammo is copper washed steel. I wouldnt want to damage a barrel for that

[jkpq45]

The ones I have were sold as lead core--I don't anticipate the pressure spike as Mr. Gibson experienced with his steel-cored bullets.

I'll end up just turning a resizing die on the lathe to smush them down to .308 or so, or I'll trade them on the trading post.

Thanks, all, for your advice. It is well taken.

[Larry Gibson]

Quite frankly I didn't anticipate the pressure increase (spike) between the soft lead core bullets of 150 gr either but the results speak for themselves given the thousands of .310 - .311 such AK/SKS bullets shot in .308 barrels over the years. The Sierra 150 .308W gave a sedate 50K psi and the Hornady .312 bullet jumped it 12K to 62K psi....the max MAP for the .308W. Had the load for the Sierra bullet been a normal 58K .308W load the Hornady bullet would have pushed the psi way over max and close to proof load psi's. A .310 or .310 bullet probably would nt have increased the psi as much but that is only a guess until I conduct more tests on this matter. Perhaps the length of bearing surface between the shorter Ak/SKS bullets and the longer 148+ gr bullets is also a major determining factor here?

The Albanian bullet had a copper washed soft steel jacket with a soft steel cored surounded by soft lead between the core and jacket.

Larry Gibson

[runfiverun]

bearing length and jaxket thickness does have some influence on pressure, even in a apples to apples comparison.

the problem with squeezing down a bullet is the jaxket and the core have different rebound rates.
when i swage bullets i swage up.
you can squeeze them down and still have 3-4 moa accuracy and some ocassional flyers.
you also have to have a tight fitting punch or you'll have a good percentage of deformed bases.

[nicholst55]

bearing length and jaxket thickness does have some influence on pressure, even in a apples to apples comparison.

the problem with squeezing down a bullet is the jaxket and the core have different rebound rates.
when i swage bullets i swage up.
you can squeeze them down and still have 3-4 moa accuracy and some ocassional flyers.
you also have to have a tight fitting punch or you'll have a good percentage of deformed bases.

While I agree that we've all been told this since forever and a some have actually experienced it, I have begun to question if its always true. One guy that was making .224" swage dies had them turn out where the point die had to swage the bullet down from .228" to .224". A bunch of us thought that there was no way those bullets were going to shoot, because of the differing springback of jacket versus core. Well, it really doesn't seem to make any difference - at least in that case.

While I don't own a set of those dies, everyone who does reports entirely acceptable accuracy with their bullets. One would certainly think that with such a relatively small diameter bullet, that swaging them down .004" would adversely effect accuracy. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[Char-Gar]

.312 projectiles in a .308 bore can and will cause excessive pressure problems.

.312 projectiles in a .311 bore is a safe combination.

I like simple straight forward answers to the original question. Big +1

[runfiverun]

i have a set of those dies.
i generally ruin about 30% of my bases.
they make nice 228 bullets but not so nice 224's.
i avoid the springback issue [somewhat] by annealing before point forming and sizing down, and using a harder core.

[nanuk]

DEPENDS

I've recently conducted a pressure test of 123 gr AK/SKS bullets and Nosler 125 gr BT .308 bullets over the same load in a .308W rifle with .308 groove diameter. The load was 43 gr of 4895 in LC cases with a WLR primer. The 125 gr .308 Nosler BT ran 2836 fps at 45,300 psi(M43). The 123 gr Russian .311 FMJBT with a steel jacket ran 2798 fps at 46,100 psi(M43). Not a whole lot of difference and neither was any where near the SAAMI MAP for the .308W.

I also tested a Sierra 150 gr .308 SP, a Hornady .312 gr 150 gr SP and a .311 Albanian 7.62x54R 148 gr FMJBT with steel jacket and steel core. The load was the same 43 gr 4895 in LC cases with a WLR primer. The Sierra 150 SP ran 2717 fps at 50,600 psi(M43). The Hornady .312 SP ran 2805 fps at 62,100 psi(M43). The Albanian 148 gr ran 2872 fps at 73,000 psi.

Larry Gibson

Thanks Larry

THAT is some good info right there

[Artful]

Going to throw out that you should know your chamber - I recently had a barrel (well two actually) shortened and the chambers reamed and the new chambers have the expected shorter throat but differ in that the neck is smaller and will now only take a bullet up to .309 diameter and have room to release it.

Just food for thought Gentlemen.