Anyone load the Ranch Dog 190 in .38 Spl?

[Lawyerman]

I have a Ranch Dog mould on the way. I am wanting to use it in my .35 Remingtons and also in my .357 Marlin lever guns.

BUT, I would like to use .38 spl. cases. Why? Because I have probably 10,000 of them- no, not kidding, easily......I came across several large boxes of them at a garage sale recently. OLD cases- WRA, Rem-UMC etc....but in excellent condition.

Any reason not to try this?

Anyone have a suggested load?

I have 500 Starline .357 cases and some other misc. .357 cases but would like to use the .38's simply because I have so many of them.....

[TXGunNut]

Brits had a 200 gr 38 Spl load awhile back, enjoyed a reputation as a good stopper. I'm imagining an 800 fps load with 231 or Titegroup. Interesting idea!

[rintinglen]

Load to the same over all length and it should make darned little difference as to function. You may be crimping further down, but so what?
Back in the day, a lot of us did the same thing with 38 brass, because it was dirt cheap, if not free, and store bought 357 brass was quite dear. I ran thousands of 358-156 boolits over a hot load of 2400 in my old Model 27 with no ill effects. I used the 38 brass I got for free from my neighbor who worked for the Sherifs Department.

[Salmoneye]

The Brit load was for the .38 S&W which they called the .380/200...

Western and Remington both at one point made Factory .38 Special loads with 200gr bullets...

[Lawyerman]

Now that you say that I knew about the British load.....In any event I have been cleaning my .38 cases.

These came off a police range (Who else would shoot that many rounds at that time?)- they were probably shot sometime in the 50's or early 60's by the look of it. I found the cases at a garage sale this last weekend.

They were in wooden ammo boxes for the .30 Carbine- the boxes have removable tops on them that are secured with threaded rods and wingnuts. They have yellow stenciling on the sides "3150 rounds" etc........Very cool old boxes. It looks like they were stored in a barn or something- one had some pretty bad termite damage to the bottom- all of them had a VERY thick layer of dirt on top of them and the cases themselves had quite a bit of dust on them.

The cases are in great shape no sign of corrosion....I gave $50 for all four boxes. I figure each one contains about 2500 cases- Rem UMC, WRA, Peters etc......I have been cleaning them using my grungiest old media and generous amounts of mineral spirits along with some small pieces of dryer fabric (to soak up the dirt and grunge) for the last several nights. The media is lizard litter- walnut and pretty grungy but they have cleaned up fairly well so far. Using the old media as the cases are so dirty I don't want to use new media until after the worst is "knocked off" of them.

I dunno that I will ever use up all these cases but these days they are a comfort to have around.......

[Lawyerman]

Load to the same over all length and it should make darned little difference as to function. You may be crimping further down, but so what?
Back in the day, a lot of us did the same thing with 38 brass, because it was dirt cheap, if not free, and store bought 357 brass was quite dear. I ran thousands of 358-156 boolits over a hot load of 2400 in my old Model 27 with no ill effects. I used the 38 brass I got for free from my neighbor who worked for the Sherifs Department.

I remember reading about Skeeter Skelton's load with the Keith 173 and 2400 in .38 cases. Heck, Skeeter was a Deputy in this town for many years and grew up not far away. I recall something about the cases having "lines" on them or some such and most of these do have two lines on them about midway up the body. I will have to re read his works and see if I can come up with something.....

[FergusonTO35]

Lee has data for the 200 grain in their book.

[Lawyerman]

Lee has data for the 200 grain in their book.

Great, I have that manual around somewhere......


After thinking about things I may also sell 3-4,000 of the cases and buy 1000 new Starline .357's- I love their brass and it runs about $130/1k- that would hold me for a long, long time......I would still have more than enough .38's too.....Might do both! Sell off some .38's for .357 and load up some .38's too....

[Salmoneye]

Now that you say that I knew about the British load.....In any event I have been cleaning my .38 cases.

These came off a police range (Who else would shoot that many rounds at that time?)- they were probably shot sometime in the 50's or early 60's by the look of it. I found the cases at a garage sale this last weekend.

They were in wooden ammo boxes for the .30 Carbine- the boxes have removable tops on them that are secured with threaded rods and wingnuts. They have yellow stenciling on the sides "3150 rounds" etc........Very cool old boxes. It looks like they were stored in a barn or something- one had some pretty bad termite damage to the bottom- all of them had a VERY thick layer of dirt on top of them and the cases themselves had quite a bit of dust on them.

The cases are in great shape no sign of corrosion....I gave $50 for all four boxes. I figure each one contains about 2500 cases- Rem UMC, WRA, Peters etc......I have been cleaning them using my grungiest old media and generous amounts of mineral spirits along with some small pieces of dryer fabric (to soak up the dirt and grunge) for the last several nights. The media is lizard litter- walnut and pretty grungy but they have cleaned up fairly well so far. Using the old media as the cases are so dirty I don't want to use new media until after the worst is "knocked off" of them.

I dunno that I will ever use up all these cases but these days they are a comfort to have around.......

Very kool score!

http://users.gmavt.net/ubavt/gifs/30.gif

[Salmoneye]

Lee has data for the 200 grain in their book.

The Alliant 2004 paper manual also has data for the 200gr lead in .38SPCL, .38SPCL+P, and .357 Mag:

http://glarp.atk.com/2004/2004Catalogs/2004AlliantPowderSM.pdf

[looseprojectile]

Have you read what Paco Kelly has on the .357 in a rifle?

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/357_magnum_and_the_literature.htm

I bought a flattop .357 Ruger in 1957 and had to use 38 special brass with the long boolits.

Life is good

[Lawyerman]

I have Pacos book. Haven't looked at it in quite some time though.....I liked his old website better than the new one- lots more articles etc....

[1Shirt]

I have loaded it for my M94 Win, 357, and it works fine, but cruds the chamber a bit, making cleaning properly essential.
1Shirt!

[Jeff H]

....Back in the day, a lot of us did the same thing with 38 brass, because it was dirt cheap, if not free, and store bought 357 brass was quite dear........

Kind of like TODAY!:shock:

I have a plastic shopping bag of .38s (about 750) I bought at a show several years ago for $3. Never knew what to do with them until I started shopping for .357 brass recently.

I have the RDO 190 but have not tried it in .38 cases. I'm using a Rossi 92 and the 200 grain TCs I shot through it went fully sideways at 15 or 20 yards and 173s were starting to tumble by the time they got to the target at .38 velocities, so I have stuck with 158 grains or lower - 125s shooting superbly.

I bought the 190 with the specific intent of using in that gun so maybe I will still try it. Right now, my best friend is making very good use of it with His Marlin .35 Remington.

[MasS&W]

Lawyerman, I'm in the same boat as you. Just fixin to cast my first batch of ranch dog 190s for my model 15 as well as my 336... according to some cursory caliper work they should just fit in both my 357 and 38 k frames. Not so for any n or l frame in their respective caliber, however. I intend to load em as light as possible in my 38 for competition loads at idpa and steel challenge, and some hotter loads for my 357 for bowling pin matches. I'll let ya know what works. The history books tell me that 38spl was loaded with 200gr boolits for police work up to the 1930s, so I figure if they worked in a smith m&p, why not a model 15?

[Catshooter]

Lawerman,

The two "lines" you refered to in the brass are most likely cannelures. All the good ammo companies in the old days would roll these grooves into the brass. Particularly in auto pistol brass they keep the bullet from deep seating in the case.

I see your join date is '05. Are you the Lawerman who lives in Texas? If so, where y'all been? I recall reading alot of your posts.


Cat

[Ed in North Texas]

According to the Lee data, the "hottest" 200 grain load they list (Blue Dot, 850 fps) is 16,000 psi. A number of their max loads are just under 16,000 CUP.

Alliant also has 200 grain loads listed.

Ed