Do i need to boolit size- mold drops close to bore size??

[floydboy]

I HAVE JUST STARTED CASTING FOR MY 30-06. THIS IS MY FIRST ATTEMPT AT CASTING FOR A RIFLE. I HAVE BEEN CASTING FOR PISTOLS WITH SUCCESS. BEEN RELOADING FOR 30 YEARS. I HAVE SLUGGED MY BARREL AND IT MEASURES .3075. I HAVE A 31141 HP MOLD THAT DROPS BOOLITS AT .3085. MY ALLOY IS 50% WW WITH 2% TIN ADDED WITH 50% LEAD. BY MY FIGURING MY BOOLIT SHOULD NOT BE SIZED ANY SMALLER. I AM NOT USING A GC AT THIS TIME BUT WILL IN THE FUTURE. I AM LOOKING FOR A .309 SIZING DIE TO INSTALL THE GC AND MAKE LUBING EASIER. I AM HAND LUBING RIGHT NOW. MY QUESTION IS CAN I GET AWAY WITH NOT SIZING FOR NOW AND WORK UP AN ACCURATE LOAD OR AM I WASTING MY TIME BY NOT SIZING.

THANKS,,,,FLOYD[smilie=s:

[Bret4207]

Sure, try them "as cast". I shoot lots of boolits like that. I prefer them a couple thou over GROOVE size, not bore sized, but I understand what you mean. How accurate it will be depends on more than just initial static size, but if you start low and work up you might be pleasantly surprised at the results, especially once you add the GC.

[floydboy]

Bret,

If I understand you I may be at least a couple thou over groove size. I started with 12 gr of reddot last nite and have about a 12 inch group at 50 yds with 5 shots. Very disappointing and plan on trying 12.5 grs tonite. I understand as velocity gets to the right point the groups should shrink but just wanting to make sure that I'm not doing something else wrong here.

Thanks for the encouragement.....Floye

[floydboy]

I am using reddot because that seems to be the best choice from what I have. I also have 3031, 4064, greendot, and 7625 to choose from. ...Floyd

[Wayne Smith]

If you are shooting a boolit cut for a gc without a gc you may not achieve the accuracy you want. Check your barrel for leading. It is almost inevitable that you will get gas cutting without the gc. You also don't mention your lube. This is equally a significant variable. Are you getting a lube star at the end of your barrel?

If you are getting gas cutting you will find leading essentially throughout your barrel but concentrated closer to the chamber. If your lube is running out you will find leading close to the muzzle. Take a good close look at your barrel and report back to us.

[floydboy]

I have only shot 5 rounds so far. No leading yet. I use my homemade lube which is beeswax, parafin, etc. I have it wrote down but don't remember now. It has served me well in pistol reloading. I do have a lube star so far. I was afraid I needed to get some GC. If I start without the GC will I be headed down the right path and things just get better when I add them or will I have to start all over when I put them on?

Thanks,,,,Floyd

[largom]

Sure, try them "as cast". I shoot lots of boolits like that. I prefer them a couple thou over GROOVE size, not bore sized, but I understand what you mean. How accurate it will be depends on more than just initial static size, but if you start low and work up you might be pleasantly surprised at the results, especially once you add the GC.


Just like Bret, I shoot most of my 30 cal. boolits unsized. My favorite molds drop boolits at .311 and I lube them in a .312 sizing die. Also, as stated in another post, add the gas check! Your mold was designed for a check so use one. You cannot work up a load and then change a major component and expect it to shoot the same.

Larry

[fishnbob]

If your cast boolit comes from a GC mold, you need to use a gas check from the onset. Otherwise, as Wayne said above you will get 'gas cutting' without the GC.

[Bret4207]

Bret,

If I understand you I may be at least a couple thou over groove size. I started with 12 gr of reddot last nite and have about a 12 inch group at 50 yds with 5 shots. Very disappointing and plan on trying 12.5 grs tonite. I understand as velocity gets to the right point the groups should shrink but just wanting to make sure that I'm not doing something else wrong here.

Thanks for the encouragement.....Floye

Okay, to be clear= you want to be larger by at least a thou over GROOVE size, not bore. Groove being the major diameter, bore the minor. IOW, your nose want's to be, say, .302 and the body .310 for a barrel that measures .300/.308. Many people get good results up to .003 or even .004 over, others report the occasional gun that likes a certain boolit right at groove diameter with a certain load. Playing around with things is fine, but just change one thing at a time and for goodness sakes, WRITE IT DOWN!

The GC will help a bunch. Did you clean your barrel of all jacket and powder fouling?

[floydboy]

Yes cleaned the barrel real good. I'm wondering if I should change my alloy to try and get larger diameter boolits?

[303Guy]

Your lube - is it beeswax, parafin wax and STP (or whatever smoke stopper brand you have)?

Anyway, I'd choose a powder that three quarters or more fills the case for about 1800fps and use a filler like wheat germ or wheat bran (the latter needs to be sieved and oven baked to dry and kill bugs). Those two fillers act like a wad and prevent gas cutting. Wheat germ is self lubricating and seems to 'flow' through the bottle neck better. If you decide to try it, it needs to be tamped down and compressed by the boolit or it will settle on its own and mix with the powder.

[Bret4207]

Yes cleaned the barrel real good. I'm wondering if I should change my alloy to try and get larger diameter boolits?

If you are already +.002 over groove, then you should at least be able to keep on paper. Things I'd check- boolit runout- check your alignment, seater squeeze- pull a few loaded boolits and see if they are still +.002 or if they've been squeezed down and are rattling down the barrel. Crimp- if you're crimping see if it's distorting the boolits. Change to a lube like 50/50 alox. Ho'made lube can be great, but starting with a known lube that has a 50 year history of working helps.

In the end, that GC will likely be the biggest help you'll get. 8-10 years back the guru's here designs a "30 Plinker" which was a PB 30 cal rifle boolit. We were all going to save a bundle shooing tumble lubed PB boolits. I have yet to hear of anyone having any success with that design and I sure haven't seen any success. The GC helps a bunch in rifles and especially with designs meant for them.

[runfiverun]

go down with your load not up the accuracy won't come back goin that way.
back it down to 10 grs and see if things improve.
when shooting a gas check boolit without one the velocity needs to be held low [dunno why but that's always how it's worked best for me]

when i am applying gas checks i like them to be tight to my boolit and this requires some friction between the boolit and the sizer.
so if the boolits measure 3085 i then would get a 3085 sizer,i can add a bit of antimony/tin to my alloy to gain a bit of size which would help even more.
i try to match my alloy needs to the nose diameter as i know the sizer will size down the body of the boolit,and i need that nose size just right for alignment and engraving. [to keep my accuracy]

[Larry Gibson]

Yes cleaned the barrel real good. I'm wondering if I should change my alloy to try and get larger diameter boolits?

If you are going to GC them and drive them faster for general shooting you should drop the lead from the alloy and just add the 2% tin to the WWs. The AC'd bullets will cast larger and the BHN will be 14-17 which will allow for very good accuracy upwards o 2000+ fps.

You will probably need a better lube and for sure will need to GC the bullets. Also if the bullets drop .310 - .311 then size at the dropped diameter. As mentioned by someone else I also use .311 as my "go to" sizing for the also as previously mentioned I'd suggest a slower powder like 4895 or slower. Use a 3/4 - 1 gr dacron filler, start at 28 gr and work up in 1/2 gr increments until accuracy goes south, probably before 32 - 34 gr.

For a good hunting 311041HP then add 50% lead to the WW + 2% tin. Clean the barrel every 8 - 10 shots to maintain the best accuracy. Work up the load with the softer bullet using 4895 or a slower burningpowder. You should be able to maintain hunting accuracy at 2000 - 2100 fps if the alloy is correct, the bullets GC & a proper lube is used.

Larry Gibson

[floydboy]

Thanks everyone. This gives me plenty to work on. I will work report back with results....Floyd