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View Full Version : Anyone shoot a Ballard?



guninhand
04-29-2007, 05:07 PM
I attracted to a Ballard #4 Perfection in 50/70 for sale and don't know much about them. AFAIK you should only shoot black powder in them due to action weakness.
This one is pricey, has a new Badger barrel, open sights, no tang sight. I haven't made any inquires but it looks like a modern repo from the Ballard company.

Opinions?

John

13Echo
04-29-2007, 08:14 PM
Well, Ballards are real slim and kind of skittish. Not much meat to draw a bead on so you have to sneak up on them real quiet and try to get a bead before they spook. Try not to hit em in the butt. A wounded Ballard just might shoot back. If you bag one they make up into a fine trophy black powder or .22 rimfire rifle. Well worth displaying over the mantle.

Jerry Liles

hydraulic
04-29-2007, 08:17 PM
If you're talking about Ora Ballard, our former county judge, I don't think so, but ask KCSO, he would likely know.

KCSO
04-29-2007, 08:27 PM
I completely rebuilt an original Marlin Ballard Pacific model a few years ago for a friend. The action is strong enough for moderate smokless loads but is no way suited for say the 38-55 HV loads. We loaded a bunch of loads to 1400 fps and had no problems. If yo stuck with B/P or equivilant loads you should have no problems and they are an accurate gun. Ned Roberts considered the Ballard Pacific the perfect target and hunting gun in 38-55.

guninhand
04-29-2007, 08:41 PM
The guy selling is asking close to $3G and claims to have invested over $5G, being rebuilt and all. Sems like I'd better hold off for a nice high wall.

uscra112
05-01-2007, 12:20 AM
I own two Ballards, neither of which I would call done projects. I have studied them a lot.

I say let that Ballard go, unless you just inherited from a rich uncle.

Real (or even imaginary) Ballards command godawful prices because of the legend that has grown up around them. Which has great validity - a lot of the old blackpowder Schuetzen men used the Ballard, and did excellent work with it. A lot of Harry Pope's barrels went onto Ballard actions. (Harry himself used a High Wall for most of his career.)

The extraction is dismal, so as a hunting gun or a Western do-everything gun it left a lot to be desired. So the actual production numbers even in the Marlin period weren't all that high. If it hadn't been such a good Schuetzen action, it would be no more well-known today than, say, the Ethan Allen action.

And everything you hear about them being a weak action is true. It was designed at the Civil War, and all of the real ones were made before smokeless was invented. They are not up to even medium-pressure smokeless cartridges of any stripe, such as .30-30. Low pressure cartridges such as .32-20 or pistol cartridges like .38 Special might be all right, but the gun should be in good condition, and no +P loads allowed! I dreamed for years of making a .25-20 SS barrel, and with a properly set up breechblock it would have held that. Then a very nice original period Stevens .28-30 barrel fell into my lap, so that's on the plan sheet for one of mine. People are said to have survived putting the Hornet in them, but no gunsmith I've ever read up on recommends this.

There is an excellent section on the Ballard in Frank deHaas' book "Single Shot Rifles and Actions". Including a lot of tips on how to build one right, and things you can do to improve them.

The main advantage for target work is that the motion of the breechblock pushes the cartridge straight into the chamber, so you can load your rounds for a light engrave of the lands on the boolit. This is especially good for .22 rimfires with Bentz chambers. Ballards were still being used for small-bore competition right up to WW2.

Aside from the split-breechblock design, the metal of the originals was barely a step up from malleable iron. Alloyed steels didn't appear until 10 years after John Marlin made the last Ballard.

A reproduction therefor will be made of MUCH better metal, and be much safer, but is still a blackpowder-pressure gun for all intents and purposes.

That kind of money could get you a really, really nice Model 1885, and if you get really lucky, and you really want something that the next guy doesn't have, maybe a nice Sharps Borchardt. ( I gloat....I just landed one at last. :-D ) The Borchardt is said to be every bit as strong as a High Wall, and has a much faster lock time.

guninhand
05-12-2007, 05:56 PM
That's a pretty thorough explanation. Much appreciated, and used in decision makin. I came across an excellent used browning hiwall in 45-70 for $850 and jumped on it. Should get here next week. Then just get a nice set of globe and tang sights.:drinks:

uscra112
05-12-2007, 11:15 PM
You will be very happy. Especially with all that green still in your pcket.

Much as I appreciate my Ballards for what they are, mine are still unfinished after a good many years, for one of two reasons: a.) I don't think I can do them justice, after what Schoyen and Pope and Petersen did with them, or b.) I want to shoot cartridges more powerful than they are safe for.

I used to play with old racing motorcycles. (Hence my moniker) Most guys in our club were running bikes that were replicas of second-string models of their time, simply because none of us could afford to even replicate, much less buy, any of the rare first-string racers, (Norton Manxes, AJS 7Rs, that sort of thing.) During that time I also became acquainted with some of the VSSCA (vintage sports car) racers. In VSCCA you could not run a replica - it had to be an actual car that had actually raced in the period. So one of these characters, who had millions upon millions, had acquired a coupla dozen genuine Ferrari racers from the 1960's period, upon which he spent upmteen bazillion more dollars (some of it with me) prepping to race. About 1991 or 1992 he took one to the Vintage Le Mans in France, and he wadded it. A million-dollar antique race car now looked like it had been run over by a semi. How he came out unhurt is beyond me.

He could afford it. If I had ever had ownership of that car, I would have been afraid to so much as start the engine. That's how I feel about my Ballards. Once they do get done, I'll shoot 'em just enough to know that they DO shoot with reasonable accuracy. That done, I'll clean 'em up, RIG the bores, and hang 'em on a wall under glass. Then I'll go back to my High Walls, my Stevenses and my Borchardt, secure in the knowledge that they're strong enough that I can't hurt 'em, (or myself).