Smelting pot recommendation

[arthury]

Hi guys,

What smelting pot would you recommend: electric or gas? It also seem like most electric ones have a spout at the bottom, so the next question is bottom dripper or ladle when pouring? Tell me the (dis)advantages, what worked best for you, etc.

Thanks!

[meadmkr]

Smelting pot or casting pot?

When I think of smelting its for melting larger batches of (dirty/greasey) lead or tweaking largers batches of a lead/linotype/tin/etc and then re-casting it into ingots. I use a cast iron dutch oven and a large ladle that I heat over a cajon cooker gas burner. I generally only do that during the cooler months and it helps keeps the crud out of the casting pot as well as gives me a chance to 'tune' the hardness of the casting mix. For casting I use an electric bottom-pour Lee. The reason _I_ chose the bottom pour to save the wear-and-tear on my shoulders from a longer casting session. I've used both over the years but my personal preferance is the bottom pour unless you are doing very small batches.

[Mk42gunner]

Arthury,

Welcome aboard.

meadmkr pretty much nailed it on smelting. I use a homemade steel pot (8" section of 8" steel pipe with a bottom welded on) for smelting over my propane turkey fryer.

For casting, I started with a cast iron pot on a Coleman stove. It will work, but it gives off a lot of heat. Since I bought a 4-20 Lee electric pot I haven't cast with the stove.

The Lee 4-20 is easy to ladle from, so you aren't limited to only bottom pouring. I use an RCBS ladle.

Robert

[hornady]

I use a Dutch oven over a turkey fryer for making ingots. But do all my casting with an RCBS Pro-Melt, if you can get past the price you will never regret the RCBS.
The bottom pour is all I have used for years. I like many started out ladle pouring. Which is better bottom pour or Ladle. That depends on whom you talk to.

[arthury]

Thanks for all the tips. And, yes, I should have said casting pot instead.

My target bullet size is for the 500SW. Would you change anything in your recommendations pertaining to size of the casting pot? Does it even matter?

Also, is it pretty much a standard thing these days for casting pots to be electric driven rather than putting it on a outdoor stove? Has that got to do with the ability to control the temperature better?

Some say that pouring using a ladle has more control than bottom pouring. How much truth is in that?

[arthury]

Anyone?
Thanks!

[gundownunder]

I use a 3 qt cast iron camp oven for both smelting and bullet casting. Loaded up to the top with range scrap I will end up with about 20 pounds of lead in the pot.
A two ring gas burner will heat the whole lot up to a nice operating temp.

On the subject of dipper or dripper I don't have a choice because of the pot I use, but I have read that dippers give a more even pour pressure because the dripper pressure will change with the level of lead in the pot.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

nearly everyone I have talked to at Cast Bullet Assn. (CBA) and Schuetzen Matches ladles their bullets. You need to decide whether you want quantity or quality.

Rich

Before you bottom pour fans inundate the thread with "oh yeah, but..." let me know how you are doing in sanctioned competitions where you do not get any "mulligans" or "overs".

Bottom Pour is for pistol bullets.

[arthury]

As of now, I am tilted towards ladle even though I am intending to pour for a revolver cartridge; namely, 500SW.

I am thinking seriously about using the Lee Sizer Die solution (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/). Has anyone used this successfully for large caliber bullets? Do you foresee problems sizing the 500SW on this type of die? I'm thinking about hooking this up to a spare toolhead on my Dillon 550B.

[shadowcaster]

Bottom Pour is for pistol bullets.

We all have our opinions..... With a bottom pour pot you have options of both ladling & bottom pouring your boolits. Some molds (pistol & rifle) like one method better than the other.

Shad

[DukeInFlorida]

As with most things relating to the shooting hobby, the answer to your question really rests with how much shooting and therefore casting you intend to do.

I started off with a small plumbers pot and a ladle. Absolutely HATED it. Was OK for small (and I do mean small) batches.

My next step was to Lee 10 pounder.

Then, I started buying better and more cavity molds...... And, I got MUCH better at the craft........

I'm currently using a RCBS Pro Melt bottom pour 20 pound casting pot, and even that now drains fast. It especially drains fast with the two cavity .500 magnum molds I run all the time. One of my molds makes the 700 grain boolit. Ten bullets is a pound. Do the math.

I do much better bottom pouring than I ever did ladling, for whatever that's worth.

[dnotarianni]

I'm casting .45 230s and 500 smiths in every size from 350s to 630s and I am using a Lee 20 lb pot. Like Duke said big bullets use a lot of lead. I cast until I am at half a pot then add an ingot or 2 and go for a smoke or a beer and let the pot settle back to temp. Big 500 bullets I find need to be cast HOT to get a good fill.

Dave

[guidogoose]

Hi guys,

What smelting pot would you recommend: electric or gas? It also seem like most electric ones have a spout at the bottom, so the next question is bottom dripper or ladle when pouring? Tell me the (dis)advantages, what worked best for you, etc.

Thanks!

My 2 cents is this. A Ferrari and a Chevy will both get you from point A to point B. How much production do you plan on doing? How much do you plan on spending? You could use a used cast iron pot over a campfire with a steel spoon as a ladle if you really wanted to. I use a cast iron pot with a propane turkey burner for ingot making. I use a Lee electric bottom pour aka drip o matic for boolits. It took a bit of "customization" for it not to drip. I have many times loaded it with lead to melt, and when I came back to the bench the entire contents of the pot were all over my bench. You dont have to worry about that with a cast iron pot. Hope this helps.

[arthury]

Do bottom pouring pots have leaking issues?

[arthury]

Didn't see any response to this question:


I am thinking seriously about using the Lee Sizer Die solution (http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/). Has anyone used this successfully for large caliber bullets? Do you foresee problems sizing the 500SW on this type of die? I'm thinking about hooking this up to a spare toolhead on my Dillon 550B.

[Mk42gunner]

The Lee type sizing dies work very well; however I haven't personally used one that large.

While it would probably be okay to use in a spare tool head on your 550, I think you would be happier with a small C frame press to run the sizing operation on. The small Lee presses can be found on sale, or an older press at a gun show, for about what a toolhead will cost.

Robert

[Jack Stanley]

They call the LEE ten pound pot the drip-o-matic for a very good reason . That pot was the very first electric pot I bought back on the late seventies . After I bought an RCBS a few years later I decided to put the LEE to good use . I pulled out the valve rod and all the rest of the stuff for bottom pour and heli-arced the hole shut on the bottom .

From then on the LEE was used to melt ingot to feed the larger pot and for ladle casting from time to time . When used as a backup to the larger pot I was able to run several six cavity molds and keep up with lead melting . I still have and use it , it was one of the very good buys from LEE .

Jack

[Sasquatch-1]

I have been using the Lee 10lb drip-o-matic for 30 some years now. I don't do as much casting as some here but when I do I cast a couple hundred 250 grn 429's at a time. I keep a propane torch handy to heat up ingots as I feed the pot.

Since I used valve lapping compound on the spout I have had less drip action. two things to keep handy when using a Lee bottom pour:
1: a flathead screwdriver to work the spout plug a bit when it starts dripping

2: a piece of wire small enough but stiff enough to fit up the spout from the bottom in case it clogs with dirt. It does happen. Be careful when doing this. Use pliers to hold the wire and have something underneath to catch the lead. ( there did I make that detailed enough to prevent a liability issue?:D)

[RobsTV]

Thanks for all the tips. And, yes, I should have said casting pot instead.

My target bullet size is for the 500SW. Would you change anything in your recommendations pertaining to size of the casting pot? Does it even matter?
....
Some say that pouring using a ladle has more control than bottom pouring. How much truth is in that?

Just started casting the 500 myself in a Lee 440gr mold, and am running into fill out issues with the Lee 20lb bottom pour. It is not flowing fast enough. Have seen many posts here that suggest when using this setup, the only way to get good consistent results is by using a ladle for the large capacity boolits (400+gr in Lee aluminum mold). Still messing with different temps of lead and mold, as well as timing, in the hopes that using the bottom pour will have good results. The 500 is not as easy as the smaller calibers.

The smaller boolits I've made prior to the 500, such as 175gr .401, seem better than any retail boolits I've seen. Had it dialed in almost instantly, so there is hope.

EDIT a few days later: Success with the Lee 20 lb bottom pour using the Lee 440gr mold. Using a mix of 1sn 3.2sb 95.8pb that drops at 7.8 BHN (10.4 after couple hours). Had to keep melt at around 550 degrees, and mold temp was critical. Preheat in melt. Mold too hot and too frosty, plus they stick. Allow to cool too much and wrinkled or bad fillout. Easy to get back up to temp by making them quicker. Cut sprue as soon as it hardens and drop. Best results with slight frost that can be wiped off with rag. Weight around 450gr. Sized then heat treated in $15 K-Mart toaster oven (rated to 480 degrees, but goes to 520 if desired) and they come out looking darker, almost like a smoked mold. Very nice. Comes out of the 430 degree oven at 20.9 BHN and 10 hours later 22.7 BHN. Should be fine for the 500 with GC at around intended 1500fps.

[arthury]

Are you using GC for the base of each bullet or are you shooting bare leads?
Just curious since the Lee die seems to indicate a GC mould?

[RobsTV]

Using gas checks with the Lee mold.

[arthury]

OK, I have a Turkey fryer outdoor running and have a block of lead in there and some linotype pieces together. Thermometer goes up to 350 deg F and stays there. Stove is at max.
Is it going to go up further? How long does it usually take to rise to 650 to melt the lead?

[Jim]

Is it covered?

[arthury]

Never mind, it melted in about 20mins at full blast. Poured my first 5 lead ingots ... at the foot of Mt. Dooooom, many paces away from Hobbiton. :)

[arthury]

Is it covered?

No, it was not covered. Should I cover it next time?

[Longwood]

No, it was not covered. Should I cover it next time?

Leaving about 1/4" to 1/2" of lead in the pot will speed things up some.

[arthury]

Ahh ... should have asked earlier, I have scooped everything out and poured the last drop out. Well, there is always next time.
Thanks for chipping in.

[dnotarianni]

Cover does 2 things Keeps the heat in and if your melting range scrap or scrap in general if there is some hidden water or impurities that might pop you don't wear it!
Dave

[arthury]

Cover does 2 things Keeps the heat in and if your melting range scrap or scrap in general if there is some hidden water or impurities that might pop you don't wear it!
Dave

That made sense. Thanks!

[arthury]

Pouring lead reminded me of pouring mercury.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have competed (with rifles) in Cast Bullet Assn and Schuetzen Sanctioned Matches for more than twenty years, with some small measure of success. Exactly NONE of those boolits were bottom poured. I used to look at equipment lists and ask around. I could not find anybody competing that did not ladle pour. I never used a multi-cavity mold either, nor did anybody I spoke with. Volume casting and sub-moa accuracy do not go together.

You do not take two weeks vacation every year and drive 1000+ miles to go to a match with boolits that are "good enough".

Quality Bottom Poured boolits are difficult to do in quantity. The pressure on the valve into the mold varies continually as the level drops.

Rich

[Longwood]

I

I never used a multi-cavity mold either, nor did anybody I spoke with. Volume casting and sub-moa accuracy do not go together.


Rich

Eggszakely,,,
In thirty some years, I never heard one good thing about bullets from a multi cavity mold.

[arthury]

THanks to all who suggested electric pots for casting.
After the first casting session, I think it would have been a larger learning curve having to run a gas furnace.

Apparently, my bullets come out best at around 700-750 deg F rather than 650 deg. At 650 deg, I had lots of distorted and wrinkly ones but by increasing the tempt by 100+ deg, they come out beautifully and slightly frosted.

And, yes, pouring cadence is the way to go. It keeps the mould nice and hot and everything just go like clockwork when the pouring momentum is on.

[btroj]

I have competed (with rifles) in Cast Bullet Assn and Schuetzen Sanctioned Matches for more than twenty years, with some small measure of success. Exactly NONE of those boolits were bottom poured. I used to look at equipment lists and ask around. I could not find anybody competing that did not ladle pour. I never used a multi-cavity mold either, nor did anybody I spoke with. Volume casting and sub-moa accuracy do not go together.

You do not take two weeks vacation every year and drive 1000+ miles to go to a match with boolits that are "good enough".

Quality Bottom Poured boolits are difficult to do in quantity. The pressure on the valve into the mold varies continually as the level drops.

Rich

You haven't spoken to people who use bottom pouror multi cavity moulds because you rent talking to those people.

Go to a bullseye pistol match and see if you can find a good shooter who casts his own with a ladle and single ca mould. Bet you won't. I bet you do find a fair number who buy commercial cast bullets made by automated machines that use both.

Trying to state that because a specific competition uses a specific casting/loading technique makes it "the right answer" is silly. You use that method because it is best for the competition you shoot!

I use multi cav moulds and a bottom pour. I don't weight sort either. I don't shoot competition. If I did I would do what it took to get the bullet quality I needed.

My ammo loading technique for my hipower ammo is different from what I do for other ammo too.

Telling a new guy that only one way to get acceptable bullets is selling him short. He needs to use a method that fits his needs, not yours.