Help needed for bluing formula.

[oly730]

Hi everybody,

I am from Indonesia and new in this forum.

I do need your help for home made bluing salt formulas either hot as well cold bluing process. Or where can I find them.
There are some suppliers for bluing salts but mostly from USA like Brownells, Caswell, Birchwood etc. But it will be way way too expensive to ship them to Indonesia from USA.
So the feasible way is to make them by myself providing I have the formula/recipes and direction to use.

Please be specific with the measurement say fluid oz or Avoidupois oz or just ounce as we in Indonesia using metric measurement so it will be easier for me to convert them if I know exactly what are they.

Please do help me, I do need these to renew my .177 BSA Airsporter.

Thanks a lot.

[375RUGER]

I have no experience with either but here are 2 recipes to start. I'm sure someone will pipe in with first hand experience soon.

http://www.dogcreek.ca/Bluing/bluing_salts.htm

Place in following solution for 15 minutes:
Copper sulphate 1/2 oz.
Iron Chloride 1 lb.
Hydrochloric acid 4 oz.
Nitric acid 1/2 oz.
Water 1 gallon

Then allow to dry for several hours; place in above solution again for 15 minutes; remove and dry for 10 hours. Place in boiling water for 1/2 hour; dry and scratch brush very lightly. Oil with mineral or linseed oil and wipe dry.

[oly730]

I have no experience with either but here are 2 recipes to start. I'm sure someone will pipe in with first hand experience soon.

http://www.dogcreek.ca/Bluing/bluing_salts.htm

Place in following solution for 15 minutes:
Copper sulphate 1/2 oz.
Iron Chloride 1 lb.
Hydrochloric acid 4 oz.
Nitric acid 1/2 oz.
Water 1 gallon

Then allow to dry for several hours; place in above solution again for 15 minutes; remove and dry for 10 hours. Place in boiling water for 1/2 hour; dry and scratch brush very lightly. Oil with mineral or linseed oil and wipe dry.

Thanks 375RUGER,

Is that hot or cold bluing?
If it is a hot bluing what its working temperature then?

Regards,

[375RUGER]

typically 275 °F (135 °C) to 310 °F (155 °C)

[deltaenterprizes]

Lye and saltpeter, do a google search for "home bluing"

[Nobade]

I use Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Nitrate, and Sodium Nitrite to make bluing salts in the shop. Don't remember the proportions here at home, but it is mainly NaOH.

When you mix the dry ingredients for the first time, be careful. As soon as you add water it starts to exotherm and gets hot really fast. Bring it up to temp. slowly, adding water until it boils at about 142 deg. C. Don't ever let it get above about 160 deg. C or they will be ruined. The water you add will control the boiling point and needs to be constantly monitored.

And I don't need to remind anybody how dangerous a screaming hot strong base is. Don't let any get on your skin, or heaven forbid, into your eyes!

[David2011]

I have no experience with either but here are 2 recipes to start. I'm sure someone will pipe in with first hand experience soon.

http://www.dogcreek.ca/Bluing/bluing_salts.htm

Place in following solution for 15 minutes:
Copper sulphate 1/2 oz.
Iron Chloride 1 lb.
Hydrochloric acid 4 oz.
Nitric acid 1/2 oz.
Water 1 gallon

Then allow to dry for several hours; place in above solution again for 15 minutes; remove and dry for 10 hours. Place in boiling water for 1/2 hour; dry and scratch brush very lightly. Oil with mineral or linseed oil and wipe dry.

The Dogcreek formula is a typical hot bluing salts mix and should be used at 292 degrees F. It's a pretty dangerous mix at that temperature, both from a burn risk and the chemical danger. It will eat holes in heavy leather.

The copper sulfate mix and instructions are a rust blue formula which is much easier for a one-time bluing operation. It will take anywhere from 3 to 10 treatments to get the depth of finish you desire. You have to get the metal perfectly clean and free of oil including fingerprints so disposable medical gloves are a good way to protect the metal. A very fine, soft wire brush or very fine steel wool will work for the "scratch brush." You don't want to use anything coarse that will scratch through the rusted finish. It's a beautiful way to blue metal.

David

[calaloo]

You should research rust bluing. It is well within the bounds of do it yourself bluing. You can make the solution youself and there is not a large outlay of cash for appratus. The finish itself is tougher than hot caustic blue and much better than cold blue.

I use two cheap propane camp stoves, a metal tank that I welded up long enough for a rifle barrel, and a very fine wire brush wheel running at a slow speed to card the rust. The solution is made from nitric acid and hydrochloric acid with nails dissolved in it. The one drawback is that it is time consuming taking multiple applications several hours apart. The solution is swabed on the part and is allowed to rust for several hours. It is then boiled in mineral free water untill the red rust turns black. The velvety black oxide is then carded off and the part is coated with the killed acid solution again. This process is repeated untill the desired color is reached. Eight or ten cycles are sometimes required.

[cuzinbruce]

Firearm Bluing and Browning by R. H. Angier is a basic resource. All sorts of formulas. Maybe more than you were looking for if you are just doing one gun.

[sbowers]

You should research rust bluing. It is well within the bounds of do it yourself bluing. You can make the solution youself and there is not a large outlay of cash for appratus. The finish itself is tougher than hot caustic blue and much better than cold blue.

I use two cheap propane camp stoves, a metal tank that I welded up long enough for a rifle barrel, and a very fine wire brush wheel running at a slow speed to card the rust. The solution is made from nitric acid and hydrochloric acid with nails dissolved in it. The one drawback is that it is time consuming taking multiple applications several hours apart. The solution is swabed on the part and is allowed to rust for several hours. It is then boiled in mineral free water untill the red rust turns black. The velvety black oxide is then carded off and the part is coated with the killed acid solution again. This process is repeated untill the desired color is reached. Eight or ten cycles are sometimes required.

I am sorry that I have to disagree with you that rust buling is much tougher than hot bluing, I have been bluing guns for about 40 years now and have done it everyway that can be though of and I find that there is little difference, they are equal in scuff resistance if they are both done properly, and both can be done in such a fashion to make the firearm come out with a beautiful deep blue finish.
Steve

[Old Caster]

There is a bluing agent that is available from Brownells called Herters Belgian blue that is a bluing that was used for double barrel shotguns when the barrels were put together with lead solder. It is only necessary to heat the metal with boiling water and apply the liquid. I don't know what chemicals are in the solution but possibly someone here might know. It is way safer than salts and I blued a Stevens double barrel in 1957 or so with it that still looks good and I was just a 13 year old kid that didn't have access to anything that was necessary at the time. -- Bill --

[Reg]

There is a bluing agent that is available from Brownells called Herters Belgian blue that is a bluing that was used for double barrel shotguns when the barrels were put together with lead solder. It is only necessary to heat the metal with boiling water and apply the liquid. I don't know what chemicals are in the solution but possibly someone here might know. It is way safer than salts and I blued a Stevens double barrel in 1957 or so with it that still looks good and I was just a 13 year old kid that didn't have access to anything that was necessary at the time. -- Bill --

Good question. Does anyone have any idea what is in that solution ? Takes a bit of patience but it really does put on a good tough blue and doesn't require the expense or risk that a hot caustic blue does.

:guntootsmiley:

[oldred]

if they are both done properly, and both can be done in such a fashion to make the firearm come out with a beautiful deep blue finish.
Steve

I am going to buy some rust blue solution but I am a bit confused about what's available, seems there is a slow method and a fast or express method such as Art's Belgium blue, Laurel Forge and Mark Lee Express blue from Brownells. I am looking for a Blue/black finish but every rust blue finish I have seen (only a few and all non-professionally done) were basically just black. Speed of the process is unimportant to me and I don't care how long it takes to get the finish I want so if the slow solutions are better that's the way I will go, any suggestions on which formula would work best?

[220swiftfn]

I am going to buy some rust blue solution but I am a bit confused about what's available, seems there is a slow method and a fast or express method such as Art's Belgium blue, Laurel Forge and Mark Lee Express blue from Brownells. I am looking for a Blue/black finish but every rust blue finish I have seen (only a few and all non-professionally done) were basically just black. Speed of the process is unimportant to me and I don't care how long it takes to get the finish I want so if the slow solutions are better that's the way I will go, any suggestions on which formula would work best?

There IS a slow rust blue in Angier's book that is reported to give a blue-black..... I think it's Goulding's blue-black or something like that, LOTS of copper sulfate in the mix...... If you're interested in making your own, I'll look it up. If you're just looking at where you can buy it, no clue. (unless you have a kid that's friends with his Chem teacher........) :)

Also, the quicker acting the bluing, the easier it is to louse it up......(better, more even results with the non "express" formulas)

Dan

[calaloo]

I am sorry that I have to disagree with you that rust buling is much tougher than hot bluing, I have been bluing guns for about 40 years now and have done it everyway that can be though of and I find that there is little difference, they are equal in scuff resistance if they are both done properly, and both can be done in such a fashion to make the firearm come out with a beautiful deep blue finish.
Steve

Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they are all different. I, too have been blueing for years and find the rust blue, if done correctly, superior. My opinion.

Brownell's has a house lable rust blue formula that is every bit as good as their expensive brand. Also my opinion..

[oldred]

Opinions are like noses. Everyone has one and they are all different. I, too have been blueing for years and find the rust blue, if done correctly, superior. My opinion.

Brownell's has a house lable rust blue formula that is every bit as good as their expensive brand. Also my opinion..

The Brownells "Classic rust blue" vs Pilkington rust blue is exactly what I was trying to decide today, is that the two you are referring to?