"finding the dot" in an ultradot

[Whiterabbit]

only thing I didn't like about the matchdot (besides the wandering zero) was the tendency for me to lose the dot. have to move the tube around a little bit to find that dot sometimes.

I like the matchdotII reticles, I imagine that 15(?)moa ring with the crosshairs outside would make finding the dot really easy and really fast.

But on the other hand, that red dot is pricey, and I've been wanting to go a little smaller in size, and at the end of the day I prefer very simple sights. So that leads me to the Ultradot25. Cheap, basic, and all I have to "interface" with is the on switch.

But I'm wondering if I'll have to deal with the same find-the-dot experience as my matchdot. Does the smaller tube make it easier to locate the dot? is the premium price paid for the matchdotII justify the reticle and unit size? (in my case with my criteria for use)

any opinions?

[bobthenailer]

I would get the 30mm ultradot it has a larger field of view than the 25 mm/1 inch tube , also you will have to pratice putting up a gun with a red dot installed until you get repeatable postioning of the sight/ gun & your eyes to pick up the red dot fast when shooting . after years of using red dot sights i have no problems finding the dot even under very fast shooting senairos.

[dragonrider]

+1 on 30MM, and like all else practice will get that dot behaving like it should.

[Whitworth]

It just takes some getting used to. Just keep using it even when you are sitting in front of the television -- just don't shoot the TV.:kidding:

[Whiterabbit]

My wife would go into conniptions if she saw me do that.....

You guys think the 30mm has faster target aq? I was thinking the 25mm would be faster as the "circles" (tube ends) would be smaller and more likely for my brain to align them concentrically as compared to a larger tube. Dunno though since I've only used the 30.

I'm not sure I need the large field of view though. Sitting at the bench I have all the time in the world to find the dot and view the tube, and out in the field I keep both eyes open so I can really see everything just fine, it's just a matter of getting the dot in view. I don't really know cause again, all I've used is the matchdot.

I don't think the 30mm would help out in the woods, would it?

[paul h]

I find shooting with both eyes open makes fov moot in most cases. Especially with a no mag scope.

[44man]

My wife would go into conniptions if she saw me do that.....

You guys think the 30mm has faster target aq? I was thinking the 25mm would be faster as the "circles" (tube ends) would be smaller and more likely for my brain to align them concentrically as compared to a larger tube. Dunno though since I've only used the 30.

I'm not sure I need the large field of view though. Sitting at the bench I have all the time in the world to find the dot and view the tube, and out in the field I keep both eyes open so I can really see everything just fine, it's just a matter of getting the dot in view. I don't really know cause again, all I've used is the matchdot.

I don't think the 30mm would help out in the woods, would it?
I think the 30MM has a faster dot pickup. It is a problem of course and even the heads up stuff is hard to find unless it is on a rifle.
Remember that it does not matter where the dot is, if you can see it anywhere, the boolit will hit there too.
You will get used to it and never go back.

[gray wolf]

I hate to say this but not all dots hit P O A with the dot anyplace in the scope.
My Nikon V D S ( very nice dot scope ) must be centered.
Julie's less better red dot will hit fine as long as you see the dot.
( go figure ) I believe paralex ( spelling ) May have something to do with it.
Err sumthin.

[Whiterabbit]

yes but IM not worried about parallax. At least on the ultradot, there would be internal reflections as the dot gets way uncentered. So as long as I could see a crisp dot, I knew I was pretty close to center. Or at least close enough for minute-of-pig. Of course on the bench that's a non issue having all the time in the world to line up a shot.

I agree with the heads up stuff, it's a nightmare trying to find the dot on a pistol with a heads up (IMO of course!)

44man, what makes you say the 30mm is a faster pickup?

[44man]

I recently made a test of an Eotech heads up on an AR. The reticle was all over the place as I looked through the thing. All shots hit the same place no matter where it was.
There is no parallax with a red dot. Magnification is where you find it.

[subsonic]

You need to physically index the gun with the dot. If you can bring the gun up and find the sights without moving the gun, the dot will be where you want it as well. Look at the target and raise the gun up between your eye and the target.

Some of the semi-autos with the little Trijicon RMR on them co-witness the iron sights. So if the irons are aligned, the dot is in the window. At that point, if the irons are aligned, why do you need the dot?

[subsonic]

Some parallax is present in all optical sights - but on 1x sights it occurs pretty far from the center and depends on the sight and range as to how much is present.

You will naturally try to center the dot, so it's not really much of an issue.

And to add to my post above, practice bringing the gun up and aligning the dot with a door knob, TV, etc. You will learn to find it in no time. Think point or index shooting, but with the dot for confirmation.

[chickenstripe]

+1 for what subsonic said

Once you develop the muscle memory for grip, stance, and alignment of the dot..... you'll develop the ability to acquire it faster and faster.

[Whiterabbit]

does that imply then, assuming you guys are right, that:

a) the reticle choices (besides just a dot) on the UD6 (dot in circle, dot in circle in crosshairs) are just a gimmick for my application?

b) matchdot, UD25, UD30, any of them, doesn't really matter, for my app they will get the job done with identical performance?

Seems that way.

[44man]

does that imply then, assuming you guys are right, that:

a) the reticle choices (besides just a dot) on the UD6 (dot in circle, dot in circle in crosshairs) are just a gimmick for my application?

b) matchdot, UD25, UD30, any of them, doesn't really matter, for my app they will get the job done with identical performance?

Seems that way.
Yes. Some with changing dots can change POI but it is not a problem with a fixed dot. See the dot and the boolit will hit where you put the dot.

[subsonic]

does that imply then, assuming you guys are right, that:

a) the reticle choices (besides just a dot) on the UD6 (dot in circle, dot in circle in crosshairs) are just a gimmick for my application?

b) matchdot, UD25, UD30, any of them, doesn't really matter, for my app they will get the job done with identical performance?

Seems that way.

Pretty much all true. The other reticles may give you an advantage or disadvantage based on what you are trying to line them up with. The larger reticles might "speed up" your sight alignment by encouraging you to accept a more coarse sight picture before releasing the shot. The smaller reticles may encourage you to be more precise in your sight alignment. Both mental tricks, as if you have the right target and mindset, you can shoot both fast or accurately.

[tek4260]

Bout time you got back Subsonic!

[subsonic]

Bout time you got back Subsonic!

Technically, still gone.

Headed BACK to Raton tomorrow to pick up my kid and then haul back here for good.

It's a long drive from Mesa Verde to St. Charles - but worth it.

[subsonic]

Mapquest says roughly 14hrs to Raton one way, so I am going to drive 28hrs in 4 days, or less. This time I'm taking my .308 5R Milspec to play on the high power silhouette range though.

[troy_mclure]

if you are having to "search" for the dot you are not holding the gun right. as you bring the gun up in firing position it should show up, just like iron sights.

[tek4260]

Isn't Raton where that mystical group of hand gunners meet every year? Did you make the Holiday? :)

[Four Fingers of Death]

These things must work, but boy, everytime I use one, my head is wobbling all over the place. I need to mount one on a 22 and get a whole heap of cheap ammo and go for it. They must work, I just can't seem to get them to cooperate whenever I get to shoot one.

[Whitworth]

Isn't Raton where that mystical group of hand gunners meet every year?

Indeed it is.....

[odoh]

Have RDs on my big bores for field use ~ Seemingly, the bigger the caliber, the more downward the static muzzle point making it more difficult to find the dot quickly. Knowing where the dot usually is outside the box helps but what about a charging bear? Benching paper targets I see lil' differences but that may be just me as after load developement, I shoot very little paper.

My 475L seems to be the most as even w/irons, one can't help noticing just how tall the front blade has to be ~ still, the irons seems to have an edge at being located quickly. Still, I do use RDs for their other advantages.

I find the capture range of the 30mm to be preferred over the 25mm YMMV

[subsonic]

If red-dots were slower than iron sights, all of the IPSC and steel type guys would NOT be using them in the classes that allow them.

Was at Raton because my boy Chris was attending the Whittington Center Adventure Camp and I had to get him back home.

Grandpa, me, and Chris all shot the Buffalo in the black a few times with my Rem 700 5R Milspec .308 and my handloads. He's 1123yds/1025 meters away with a 16" black circle in the kill zone. My scope was out of up (no 20moa base or anything) so we were holding on rocks on the hillside above him with 36MOA dialed in. It was easier than I thought it would be, but we were smart enough to shoot early before the wind came up.

My G20 put some hurt on the pigs on the Hunter Pistol silhouette range.

[Four Fingers of Death]

There's no question that they are quicker or all of the go fast guys wouldn't be spending big bucks on them. I just find them awkward to use. As I said, if I put in the time to practice with them, I'd get on top of it all.

I saw Jerry Micaluk's rifle and he had a big scope for long range stuff and a red dot style scope set on an angle for quick, close up stuff. I wouldn't mind that set up on my Remington 7600 Police 308!

[Larry in MT]

I've had an UltraDot MatchDot for many years --- It's a 30mm and I didn't realize it even came in a smaller diameter???

My MatchDot is the one with 2, 4, 6 and 8 mm dots --- no reticules.

There is (virtually) NO parallax in the MatchDots. You can test this yourself. Some cheaper makes DO have considerable parallax.

For me, the combination of 4 different size dots and 11 different illumination levels makes this sight a good one for everything from tiny targets far off in bright light to shooting Jack Rabbits and Raccoon at night.

It DID take a while to get used to finding the dot quickly (harder with the smaller dot sizes) and if I don't use it for weeks there is a slight re-learning curve.

Mine is mounted VERY LOW -- maybe this helps.

I only zeroed it once!

[Whiterabbit]

And if only the zero held on the matchdot on my BFR I wouldn't have started this thread!

(or if the warranty were unconditional)

[Lee]

44man , hard to believe, but I'll take your word! I've got an Eotech 512 on an AR and as you stated, the dot is all over the place! Haven't had the chance to test it yet, but your comment was comforting, to say the least. I thought I was taken the first time I looked "thru" that sight...... Lee:-)

[Whiterabbit]

were you looking at a 50 yard target?

If you look at a 5 yard target the red dot WILL be all over the place. Stabilizes right out at 50-100.