Garth Choates lithium bullet lube???(help)

[buck1]

Back in 1980 or so . Garth choate of Choate machine and tool came up with a lithium based bullet lube. When he quit makeing it, he made the recipe and instructions public.
Does anyone here have that recipe/ instructions, or know where I can find it??
Thanks a million!! .....Buck

[johniv]

Sir, the only thing I can find on that is in Dean Grennell's book of the 45.
He just states that is a mix of lithium grease and beeswax. No proportions
mentioned, he gives the caviat that the grease melts at about the flash
point of the wax. No other ingrediants are mentioned sooo , it may be a
mix to desired consistancy situation. Also outside and with care.
John
P.S. Mr. Grennell seemed to think pretty highly of this stuff.

[utk]

Buck, this is whai I found in my notes:

**********************************************
03/05/00-10:21 PM Posted by: barberx
12828: Grease-based lubes

I posted using the lithium and moly greases in bullet lubes, Garth Chote (ARK) use to make and sell a lube called Lith-bee , he said he used a catfish cooker to melt lithium grease but warned the melting point of lithium grease was almost flashpoint of bees wax so be careful, I used sta-Lube graphite moly grease which is mineral oil based,25% grease to 75% wax, the Hitemp lube is lithium soap and petrolium based, I used 50-50 but plan to mix another batch 25-75. A small expermint I made was to lube several bullets with different lubes, place in a old toaster oven and slowly raise temp, alox-beeswax was first to melt, lithium mix was last, no melting left in hot car.
Richard btw my new email is www.reddot@freewwweb.com

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I got tired of being accused of shooting BP on the centerfire line (Alox-beeswax) and used lube recipes offered on the cast bullet list by Adrian Pittfield and John Paul Jones.

Adrian's Goo ( AKA lithi-Bee)
1 part Beeswax
1 part Lithium auto lube cartridge
mix with heat do not exceed flashpoint labeled on cartridge (225degrees iirc) does not require heat to lube bullets

Recipe for Saeco Green Bullet Lube (A soft lube, equal to 50/50 Alox/Beewax)
2 lbs Beeswax
2 lbs Paraffin
1 lb STP Oil Treatment
(It is possible that a small amount of Stearic Acid (Stearine) will make the lube harder.)
(Temperature 140F (60C) for lube sold currently by Redding).

Saeco Green is less smoky than Adrian's Goo and both are less smoky than Alox Beeswax but needs 105 degrees (41C) in luber-sizer. YODAR
(It is probable that Yodar used a candle wax with stearine instead of pure paraffin. That would explain the need for a lube heater).

----------------------------------------------------

This is "ole Junior." My 411 lube is by volume 4 parts cleaned Mississippi Delta cotton field beeswax, 1 part lithium automotive grease, and 1 part Dexron ATF fluid. Heat and mix well. If the lithium doesn't want to blend, carefully increase heat.

When cooled, the lube is pink in color but otherwise the consistency of Alox stick. The lube is also easy to make--and cheap. Also good for pan lubing. I figure enough to equal the volume of an Alox stick cost 25 cents vs $3.50+ for the Alox stick.
I've tested 411 lube extensively in two Model 94 30-30 rifles to 1950 fps with a few rounds going 2000 fps+. All results equaled zero leading and a mirror-like bore. When my 450 Lubrisizer runs out of Alox stick, I'm pouring the reservoir full of 411.

********************************************

Please report your results.

Urban

[StarMetal]

I've been shooting a lube I make from Slick 50 One Grease, ATF oil, and beeswax with very good results and to very high velocity. I also make the same thing except substituting the Slick 50 One with Castrol calcium based grease in a tube. I can say that there is no ways, at least with the two greases I use, that it is a 50 to 50 mixture. More like 1 to 10. Too much grease makes the lube very very soft. Other greases may be different.

Joe

[drinks]

I used a mixture of bee's wax and graphited chassis grease with a small amount of Grandma's lye soap, about 80% bee's wax and 18% chassis grease, however, I have not seen the graphited chassis grease in at least 25 years.
Now use liquid alox and LBT soft blue, both do well up to about 2400fps.
Don

[Leftoverdj]

I've long used a mixture of one pound beeswax, one pound lithium grease, one quarter pound paraffin. Always made it outdoors where a minor fire would not really matter. I'm not sure the grease really has to melt. I start stirring when the beeswax melts and keep stirring until it is homogenous.

Last batch was made with white lithium grease because that was what I had. That has a fair amount of titanium dioxide in it but that did not seem to hurt anything as far as I can tell.

[StarMetal]

Leftoverdj

What consistancy or hardness did that lube come out to be like?

Joe

[Leftoverdj]

Starmetal, comes out slightly softer and tackier than NRA formula, but still comparable. That quarter pound of paraffin stiffens it a lot. I don't recall ever pushing it past 2000 fps, but it sure works up to that level and maybe beyond.

[StarMetal]

I was wondering...that's why I cut back the amount of grease that I've been using. To tell you the truth I think there's plenty enough lube, maybe more then enough, with it cut back in my lube mix. Like that one with the STP mentioned here...don't take much STP to lube something. I don't use the have to heat them hard lubes, so I would probably be satisfied with the lube you're making. Sounds good and as long as it's working that's all you need.

Joe

[felix]

Leftoverdj, your mix is actually a real good one for wet (condensing) weather. You can cut the viscosity with coconut oil, and when adding, subtract out some of the paraffin. A better lube, for BP, would be to make sure you don't have any petro constituents. This would mean to get actual lithium stearate, because you don't know what the grease was used to make your current lithium grease. In other words, make your own lithium grease using enough stearate to approximate the same melting point you have with the current grease. Use carnauba to harden in lieu of paraffin. Just some ideas for more fun. Nothing really wrong with titanium dioxide, but not required. ... felix

[buck1]

Thanks to everybody for your help!!!!!!
I figure someone has it wrote down somewhere.
I made the 50/50 litlium grease bees wax. It just made a thicker grease. Then I made a 2 parts bees wax / 1 part grease, its better but still tooo gooooie ( as per stars warning).
I had heard before ,that it was a 50/50 mix, but theres a hardner missing, be it Carnuba, paraffin, or something. Or the %s are way,way off , or both. Thanks again guys !!!! Buck

[jcork]

My final recipe for SAECO Green

1/4# Parafin canning wax
1/4# beeswax
1/2 cup STP Oil Treatment
2 crayons

Makes about 4 big sticks that don't need heat in a lubrisizer. I can't claim it has any magical properties but works fine for pistol bullets cast from wheelweights.

[utk]

Sorry, jcork, your recipe is not Saeco Green, Cork Green perhaps.
The published recipe is:

Recipe for Saeco Green Bullet Lube (A soft lube, equal to 50/50 Alox/Beewax)
2 lbs Beeswax
2 lbs Paraffin
1 lb STP Oil Treatment

This recipe does not, however, give you a green color. With the beeswax I have, the color was a very light yellow/brown (and it had a nice honey smell).
IF you want to color it, I would recommend some known substance, like candle dye.
Who knows what different crayons might contain? Could be some unhealthy stuff. Candle dyes are made for burning and should be safe for your health.
And "unknown" crayons might affect consistency.

But why add color? Shoots no better...


Urban

[buck1]

I have been makeing these lubes , looking for just the right mix for my spicific needs. I must recomend a crock pot for this!!! Temp controll ( to a point), easy and clean up isnt that bad. Its the best way I have found to melt this stuff yet! Mine cost $3.00 at a yard sale, even has a lid!!!
and I must add FWFL has still been the best,( bravo felix!!)....buck

[utk]

I have done some very limited tests with this lube:
I used to shoot store-bought boolits in my .30 Luger. Bought them at .314 and sized down to .311 (or was it .309?) in a LEE sizer. Shot them at 1000 fps. Leaded terribly.

Panlubed a couple of dozen LEE 311-93-1R and shot them with the same powder load. Almost no visible leading at all! With a patch I could push out a couple of pieces of lead slivers.
Haven't done any more testing though, as our gunclub lost our indoor range and I now reload with jacketed (too much work with cast when volume shooting and only pan-lubing available for this caliber. Might get me a lubrisizer and die in the future, though).
I might get these fine results with other lubes as well, just haven't tried them in this application.

Urban

[StarMetal]

buck1

What you found with the 50/50 mix of grease/beeswax is exactly what I was saying, it comes out a grease. That's why I add only alittle grease. I'm sure it's enough. To tell you the truth I'm wondering how much beeswax lubes. It may be that beeswax lubes good enough to a point and only needs alittle additional help from an actual lubricant such as the greases we speak of.

Joe

[carpetman]

UTK---Why add color to a bullet lube? First off,if you are making Saeco green and it really is brown or yellow,everyone at the range will laugh at you. You sure wont have any credibility. Not only laugh at you,but actually snub you for not using lube with a designer color. They might even think you are using ear wax for lube. Would you want to rub elbows with someone so foolish as to think their brown/yellow lube was Saeco green? Have you not watched someones bullet on it's way to the target sporting some atrocious color lube? Very disgusting. What if you went hunting and had the shot of a lifetime at a green buck and you didnt have green lube? I'm sure part of Starmetals one hole groups is the judicious effort he puts into color coordinating his lube. Almost as important as the emphasis he places on shooting one shot groups.

[buck1]

""They might even think you are using ear wax for lube""

No that didnt work either!! Just kidding!! LOL....Buck :D

[Jim S]

I use a tube of lube designed for the end bearings on cooling tower fans . It is not actually grease but silicone collodial suspension of black moly. The talk about how hot you have to get the bees wax is certainally true. I heat the wax , out side on a coleman stove, just to the piont of smoking lightly. At that point I add the lube , about 1:5 and wisk it into the wax until I get an even dark gray color and no lumps.This lube is a little soft initially but sticks very well after you let the bullets sit for 24 hours after you lube them.
The lube comes from speciality lubricants that is located either in Conroe Texas or Houston. I don't remember which because I bought a couple of tubes from them 10 years agao and still making lube with it. The real benifit , in addition to almost no leading with any sane load --one that doesn't use too much fast powder and melt the bullet base outright, is the silicone trratment of the barrel. Any leading I have ever had would brush out with a pass of a stainless brush.
Some friends have also had good luck with lithium wheel bearing greese and bees wax mixtures. I'm not sure of the type of grease base the moly is in but the stuff smells like hell when you heat it up.

[jcork]

Sorry, jcork, your recipe is not Saeco Green, Cork Green perhaps...


Yes, what I have is only in the general arena. I don't have any accurate tools for measuring these things by weight, so I got the waxes as close as I could with a balance (parafin was in quarter pound chunks), and added STP until the mix was the right consistency.

The crayons were a complete afterthought; I asked my daughter (an artist) if she had any crayons; she found only a yellow one and half a blue one; it was destiny.

As has been stated before, at the pedestrian velocities I am shooting, I could lube with tartar sauce and probably do fine.

[EchoSixMike]

Titanium dioxide is used as an antiwear additive in artillery propellant and in the 105mm tank shell, so it may very well have useful properties for high velocity/high pressure loads. S/F....Ken M

[Leftoverdj]

Titanium dioxide is used as an antiwear additive in artillery propellant and in the 105mm tank shell, so it may very well have useful properties for high velocity/high pressure loads. S/F....Ken M

Who woulda thunk it? Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while.

[utk]

jcork, the original recipe is quite soft in itself. No extra STP should be required to "dilute" it. Maybe it is so that the crayons made it stiffer?
I'm cautious about crayons as Felix once warned about possible health hazards depending of which chemicals were used for color. And also, I think he warned about unknown effects on stiffness.

Do try the recipe without any crayons and compare! (I found it easier to measure by volume instead of weight, by the way, and it seems to work fine).

If you want it harder then you could try adding some stearine, or replace some of the paraffin with stearine (some more expensive candles are made of pure stearine).
Best is if you use pure ingredients, then you can repeat the recipe. If you use candles "in general" you might have different results each time as the contents in candles vary between pure paraffin to pure stearine and everything in between. Other ingredients are also possible.

Here in Sweden, cheap "heat candles" can be bought in bags of 50 or 100. They come in small aluminium cups, some 1 1/4 " diameter and 7/8" high and are specified as beeing 100% paraffin. Those are the ones I use.

Urban

[jcork]

Here in Sweden, cheap "heat candles" can be bought in bags of 50 or 100. They come in small aluminium cups, some 1 1/4 " diameter and 7/8" high and are specified as beeing 100% paraffin. Those are the ones I use.

Urban

Interesting. I find that in the grocery store here I can find 1# boxes of 100% parafin such as Canning Wax (http://store.yahoo.com/flyyourflag/gullitmfrpou.html) . It's about the biggest expense in my lube at $3-4 per pound A pound does come nicely scored into 4 pieces.

Next time I'll lay off the crayons. It will probably be another year before I need to cook lube again.

[buck1]

When I get done playing with these lubes , I wont live long enugh to use it all! LOL...Buck

[mroliver77]

When I get done playing with these lubes , I wont live long enugh to use it all! LOL...Buck
I took all my old leftover and experimental lube and mixed it together and came up with a big ole can of earwax lookin stuff. It works great on any well fit pistol bullet under 1000fps for me. Then again I have used straight toilet rings, crayons,parafin/grease mix and even a couple supositories as lube for "target"velocity rounds with fair success. Jay

[MN91311]

I have some of Choates lube, both lithium/beeswax and and alox/beeswax, that I bought way back in the late seventies. I didn't use it enough to comment on how good it was, but I used it with no problems in 38 sp and 45 Colt, standard velocities. The price was right, so I bought several sticks of each.

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rn
Back in 1980 or so . Garth choate of Choate machine and tool came up with a lithium based bullet lube. When he quit makeing it, he made the recipe and instructions public.
Does anyone here have that recipe/ instructions, or know where I can find it??
Thanks a million!! .....Buck

[buck1]

You guys are great! thanks again for all your help!!! Buck

[lar45]

A thought on coloring lubes.
Someone in one of the threads mentioned a candle pigment. Pigments are a solid that gets suspended in the wax to give it the color. They recommend stirring to keep it suspended as the wax cools. If it's a particle suspended in the wax, I wonder if it could be bad for a barrel???
Dye mixs in with the wax as a solution.

I'm sure that any and all crayons have to be 100% non toxic. Just think about how many get chewed on or eaten.

Now about that ear wax? I think I'm going to start saveing it till I get enough to lube a dozen bullets and try it out.

As far as the base wax, I think it would be interesting to try the different waxes straight and see where each one ended up as far as lube potential and velocity.

[buck1]

I just bought some dye. I tsp +2LB wax , makes tons of dime sized chips. One of those chips per LB of wax is used to make candles. I dont think is anything to worrie about. Crayons are too week . It takes a bunch to add color, then it fades fast....Buck