Electronic Powder Measures

[MGySgt]

Been thinking again (normally that gets me into trouble) about buying one of the new electronic powder measures.

I have been using a Lyman 055 for ever (have 2) and while I am satisfied, I am shooting a lot of 45/70's and 45/90's (3031 mostly). I weight each charge on an old Redding balance beam scale, throw light and trickle up.

Any one using one of the new electronic ones?

How consistant is it? With the old balance beam you can get down to 1 flake or stick of the powder you are weighing to center the balance beam.

Does being a 10th of a grain off really matter? (most of the electronic ones say plus or minus a 1/10th.)

Drew

[Johnch]

I have a Pact Electronic Powder Measure .
It is OK for powder , where I use it mostly is for checking cast bullet weights , shot charges ect
IMO 1/10 grain is about right for accury of my Pact scale.
For load work up and powder mesure setup I use my RCBS 10-10 scale
I load mostly by using powder droped from my uniflow
I do not scale out every load
I check every 10 or so

Years back I did a test to see if weighing powder charges was worth it.
I loaded some scaled out 223 loads ,loaded them 1 at a time on the rock Chucker and the same load droped from a powder measure mounted on my Dillon 550 .
At 200 yds I got groups (average of 5 , 3 shot groups) of .72 for the 1 at a time and .95 for the loads off the Dillon ,no wood chuck will know the differance.

I am a biger limmiting factor in the group size ,so I now don't worry

Johnch

[Johnch]

Try this load 2 rounds at your normal load
2 your load at - 1/10 of a grain and 2 at + 1/10 of a grain
And see what the group looks like

I bet you can't see any differance

With 30+ gr of 3031 and a cast bullet in that big of a case
I bet a + and - 2/10 load would look OK if not good

Just my 2 cent

Johnch

[buck1]

I have found it takes 2/10 to change anything, even a little.
I asked the same question you are now asking, but 6 mo ago.
OVERWELMINGLY Pact was the favorite!!!
So I bought the pact combo, Its great!! But you need to leave it on for 30 min before you use it, or it will not be correct to the 1/10 gr. The zero seems to change over the -FIRST- 30 min. BUT after 30 min its as good as you will find for any type scale dispencer out there. so I turn mine on as a first thing, then start getting everything else ready. Made in the USA (in Texas I belive) with American parts and a full lifetime warranty. I love mine. They are on sale right now too. .....Buck Go to- http://www.pact.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=specials

[Bent Ramrod]

I bought a Dillon D-Terminator at an estate sale. Found it was pretty hopeless for the kind of powder charge weighing I used to do on my RCBS beam balance. Trickling in adjustments would result in no change in the numbers on the Dillon display, and then all of a sudden, there would be a 0.3 gr. jump. I was plenty concerned at this, and borrowed a set of S-2 weights from work to check both the RCBS and the Dillon scales.

The S-2 weights were in grams, but it was easy to multiply by 15.432 for grains. I was amazed that both scales were very accurate, registering not only very close to the correct values, but very close agreement to each other as well.

I called Dillon and asked whether the logic circuit was off, since it seemed the only way I could weigh up powder charges was to kind of dump powder into the little bowl on the scale and hope the jump in weight was close. There were a lot of repeats doing this. The guy was very friendly, but seemed pretty uninterested in this problem. He recommended I use the Dillon to weigh bullets and suchlike.

So that is what I do. I had hoped that the electronics had evolved so that the $1200 or so electronic balances I use in the laboratory had been reduced in cost so the same convenience was available for a hundred dollars or so, but it looks like it is not meant to be, at least as yet. Where the lab balance can measure the addition of a single crystal of a chemical (0.1 mg more or less), the Dillon is accurate for single weights added all at once, but not tiny additions of weight up to a total. So I use it for checking powder measure settings (dumping the whole charge at once gives a very accurate weight) and weighing cast bullets (again, a single weight is added all at once, and the registry is very accurate). Also letters; setting one on the scale in the gram mode lets you know when you have exceeded the weight for a 37-cent stamp. But for bringing powder charges up to a given weight for load development, I still haul out the old RCBS.

[Maven]

MGySgt, In the current issue of "Handloader" (#236) Dave Scoville waxes ecstatic about the RCBS Chargemaster 1500. However, those things don't come cheap.

[imashooter2]

I have the PACT unit. Great for loads that you would have trickled anyway, too slow for loads you would have thrown. Also good for working up new loads. Making incremental changes for 5 or 10 charges in each weight is fast and easy. All in all, I'm pleased with mine. PACT is still running their special... $230 delivered direct from the factory. See buck1's link above.

[beagle]

When they came out, I jumped onto the bandwagon and bought electronic scales. I went with the RCBS (Pact). I used it for a while and found that during a loading session, it would tend to drift on me and I didn't care for that so I went back to beam scales and use them exclusively now.

The e scales were the cat's meow for weighing bullets.

My reloading partner had one of the automatic setups and liked it except that it wouldn't do ball powders accurately. They may have fixed that by now.

I'd look a lot and talk to a lot of folks before I jumped on e-scales./beagle

[imashooter2]

My new at Christmas PACT dispenses consistent charges with ball, flake or extruded.

[MGySgt]

Some positive, some negative - I used an older AMT (AKA Lyman) that was a balance beam with an electric dribbler. It worked well enough, but the magnets fell out for the dampening and the thing was .5 grains light. That could get a gut in trouble if they went back to a 'normal' balance beam.

My bride of 32 years is looking form an anniversary present for me and I thought the New Lyman was a good choice (on sale at Cabela's for $220). Nobody mentioned that one.

[Beau Cassidy]

I have a lot of drift with my RCBS scale. It isn't the automatic powder dribbler job. I thought it was because of the circuitry in my new house. The reloading room- more specifically, the bench- is right over the breaker box in the garage. I was pulling my hair out trying to keep the scale zeroed. I finally got it back out yet once again a couple of weeks ago. What I realized is that if I held my hand close to the scales, it would drift higher. If I pulled my hand away, it would drift lower. ?. Guess I have to do something about static electricity. If any of you guys are having trouble keeping your scales zeroed, this may be something to look for. Mine requires FREQUENT rezeroing.

Beau

[MT Gianni]

I bought a lyman 1200 [old style] at Sportsman Warehouse last weekend. It was discounted to $199.99 as the new one had more memory. So far I like it . The 30 min warm up is a pita but standard on all the combos I looked at. It works fine with ball and stick powders. I did have it hang up big time with Surplus 107 which hangs up in every measure I've tried but a lee dipper. The scale works great for weighing bullets even with waiving the warm up it doesn't change more than a 1/10th gr and that is well with in my range for bullets. I wondered about it but the price was right and it seems as though Lyman has done a much better job on their warrenties lately. Gianni.

[Bret4207]

I recall reading that one guy got rid of a lot of his problems by buiding a wooden box with a padded floor for his elec. scale. Seems errant breezes and vibrations were the culprit. Many reports of these things running much better on batteries than 110 household current. Hope that helps someone. I'd love one but the $$$$ get in the way. Also- heard good things about the Hornady model.

[MGySgt]

Well - I bit the bullet and bought the Lyman out of Cabela's. Real nice looking setup and a lot of trial and error must have gone into the final design. The powder resivor all comes apart for changing powders, even has a chut on the back to let most of the powder out. Only takes a few minutes to change the powder and clean it and you don't have to turn it off.

I played around with it last night with 3031 and 2400 and the charges were well within what I would weigh with my old Redding Balance beam and both scales weighted the charges the same.

I think the 'within 1/10th' is .05 high or low not .10 high or low. Any of you that have electronic scales see the same thing???

My only complaint is the 30 minute Warmup time. I hit off tonight instead of Cal/Zero and had to wait another 30 minutes for it to warm up again.

Drew


Drew

[Ken O]

I have a Pact scale, not the combo, it is always within .1 compared to my Ohaus ballance beam.
What I cant understand is why the 30 minute warm up is such a problem, I never turn mine off, it has been on for over 11 years, always ready, it probably doesnt use a nickles worth of electricity a month, why do you turn it off?
I shoot lots of competion, IDPA, Steel Chanlenge and ISPC for pistol, and weekly Garand matchs, XTC HP, and LR HP matches for rifle. I reload every day, I just throw the charges and spot check occasionly for all ammo except for my 300 and 600 yrd match ammo, which I weight every charge and keep within .2gr. I think a digital scale is plenty accurate for what most of us do.

[BruceB]

I leave my PACT scale "on" all the time, same as Ken O. No warm-up needed, this way.

Just for peace of mind, I do re-calibrate it at the start of every session. It's a very valuable part of my gear, believe me.

[MGySgt]

Leaving it on all the time would not have helped my stupidity when I hit the Off button vice the Cal/Zero @#$%^&

Drew

[buck1]

I only use mine when I am going to load a batch of ammo. Test loads are much faster with my 505.
....Buck

[NVcurmudgeon]

Warmup? I don' got to cho you no steenking warmup! It's been so long since I got my PACT, I don't remember any warmup in the instructions. Excuse me, I anticipate being very busy looking for PACT instructions. I use the PACT for cast boolits almost exclusively. The only other use here is for a postal scale!

[imashooter2]

I don't warm mine up and I've never seen any wandering or false readings. My check weight always weighs the same. Turn it on, calibrate and use.

[McLintock]

I've had an RCBS/Pact Auto Dispenser and scale unit for about 5 years and use it for both smokeless and black powder loads for long range Cowboy Action Shooting. Loads have always been consistent with many different powders, except I couldn't get a fine powder like HP-38 to work through it. But this hasn't been a problem as I use Dillon Powder measures for most of my Titegroup or HP-38 loads anyway. I've never left it on for longer than I'm using it and have to reset the zero about once a session, maybe twice if it's a long one, like loading 100 rounds or so of something. About the only thing I use my 10-10 beam scale for is to set the powder measures on the Dillon's. Couldn't imagine being without it now.

[Bret4207]

Midway flyer has the Pact for like $89.00.

[Blackwater]

Hmmmmm! Warm up you say? Well, well, well! Got mine used from a friend, and never read the stinkin' instructions, so .... guess I'll try that and see if it eliminates the wandering zero. Found out quickly that you do NOT use it where the A/C vents can blow on it.

This is why I hang out here! Learn something new every day.

[MGySgt]

After a few weeks of using it:

First - it is alway .1 high, if I set it for 41.5 after it beeps it is 41.6 - never fails - so I just set it .1 low or don't even worry about it. It is still consistant and it doesn't matter what powder - 3031, 2400, Unique are the only ones I have tried and it does it with all of them.

I don't know if it is quicker with pistol or not, but I had to stand to use my 055 and balance beam, at least I am sitting down. Charge a case and seat the boolit while the pan is refilling. BTW - my bench is real solid - screwed to the wall, double 3/4's plywood, 2X4 frame and front legs.

Mine is normally on - I just re zero it when I start.

I think I will keep it. My back doesn't give me fits with long reloading sessions now.

[454PB]

I've been using a Pact electronic scale for many years. Last winter I ordered the Lyman 1200 electronic scale/dispenser. It works well, and I've not seen the wandering zero that the Pact displays. This system is great when I want to load a lot of rifle ammo.

However, I haven't yet disposed of my old RCBS balance beam, and find myself using it more and more often rather than set up either of the electronic ones. You just can't beat the simplicity of the old balance beam scales.

[MGySgt]

Well after having the Lyman 1200 for awhile now I have decided that it does not dispense the powder accuratley enough.

For a test - I loaded 10 rounds on the Balance Beam (BB) and 10 rounds on the Lyman (L). All suppose to be 41.5 gr 3031.

I shot them side by side - 3 from the BB then 3 from the L. Wait 10 minutes and then shoot 3 from the L and 3 from the BB.

The L group after 6 rounds (2 sets of 3 each) was over twice the size of the BB. Not good as far as I am concerned.

What I do now is set the L 2 tenths under my load and then tricket up on the BB. Not as quick as throwing them with the 055, but it is a lot quicket to 'Adjust' for a different charge and bsides I am not in a contest to see how fast I can load. Last night it took an hour to load 40 rounds for my 45/90.

Charge all 40
Put in dacron filler
Seat bullet
Chrimp bullet

Where the L really shines is weighting bullets. Dont have to wait for the BB to settle and then adjust the 10's. Just zerro it and set the bullet on the plate without the pan, half second later (if it is that long) the weight is displayed.

Weighted and sorted 200 pullets in less then 30 minutes. That almost justifies it by it's self.

I will still 'throw' my practice pistol rounds (38, 44, 45) with one of my 055's and use the L to 'throw' the loads light and trickle up for rifle and hunting 44 loads.

The L does about 90% of what I wanted it to do so I am not displeased with it.

Drew

[imashooter2]

The L does about 90% of what I wanted it to do so I am not displeased with it.

Drew

It doesn't throw powder charges accurately. Heck, that is it's sole design purpose. I'd be livid. Send it back to Cabela's, get your money back and buy a PACT.

[R.M.]

I bought one of the Calbela's scales. $79.00 or thereabouts. I've never seen it wander weighing powder, but the other day while culling some bullets, it wandered constantly. One of the cures mentioned here won't work. This unit has an auto shut-off. I can't warm it up. If I new enough about electronics, I'd dig into it and fix that, but I'm chalenged with most things in life. :-?

R.M.

[carpetman]

R.M--You had not seen your electronic scale wander until recently. They are not bad to wander except during mating season. That time of year they will leave your shop if you leave the door open. Acme(the same company you see in the Roadrunner cartoons) makes a roadrunner trap stake chain that works perfectly. There is an old axiom if it will hold a roadrunner it will hold and electronic scale that is in heat. I'd send you a trap chain,but mine are for cats and would be overkill for an electronic scale.

[R.M.]

Carpetman
Thanks for the offer and advise about keeping the door closed. It might be too late though. I wouldn't mind if it mates with a RCBS Chargemaster. I could live with that :lol:

R.M.

[MGySgt]

It doesn't throw powder charges accurately. Heck, that is it's sole design purpose. I'd be livid. Send it back to Cabela's, get your money back and buy a PACT.

Don't know if I will or not (send it back to Cabela's). I have only used the 'Auto Feature' Set the weight and let it go. This also has a Manual feature.

Throw it low and then hit to button for just 1 granual of powder at a time. I might give that a try.

The problem is not the weight it indicates, it won't stay on what it is set. Set it for 41.5 and get 41.6 or 41.7. Chack it against the BB and it is what it is on the LED.

I have only used stick powders in it (other then a test when I first got it). The auto trickler doesn't seem to be able to stop at one granualr of powder like the manual tricklers.

Just my humbel opinion.

Drew

[MT Gianni]

I bought the 1200 old style on sale when the new one came out and my throws the same weighed charges through the cycle. I would send it back or talk to Lyman re their instructions. Gianni.

[imashooter2]

The auto trickler doesn't seem to be able to stop at one granualr of powder like the manual tricklers.

Just my humbel opinion.

Drew

I've used my PACT with ball, flake and stick. All of them meter the same. 90% on the money, 9% .1 light, 1% .1 over.