.357 Max Contenders?

[Poohgyrr]

Anyone have anything to share about these? I keep looking at some of my molds, and have been looking at the Contenders for a while.

[45nut]

It's a very popular choice for the Contender, I had one and it did fine work and the prevailing weight is the 180gr. I have a 10" bull barrel now I planned to get rechambered to the max but it does so well as a mag I am just going to leave well enough alone.. who'da thunk it?

[45r]

You won't gain but 2 or 300 fps over the mag and a deer won't know the differance with a well placed shot.someday I'm going to get a 357 barrel cause I got 5 good molds to make boolits but can't put my revolvers down long enough to buy one.My old model 27 shoots 180 grain OGF's groups around 2 inchs at 50 yards and a contender barrel would probably shoot ragged hole groups at the same range.you could always have the barrel rechambered later if you need flatter trajectory.put a boolit in the high shoulder spot and a deer will drop like a rock with the 180 grain boolit.I prefer the 45 caliber myself but I'm into revolvers mostly but would not feel undergunned with a contender in 357 mag.Inch and a half groups at 100 yards are easy when scoped.My 7MM TCU will shoot 1 inch groups easily with it's 2x7 scope on it.357 brass loosens primers with hot loads and 357 max brass is more expensive and harder to find.I think you'd be plenty happy with the mag over the max. imho.

[MT Gianni]

A friend shot his moose with a 357 Max in a 10" contender. He said it was still standing after the first shot so he hit it again. 180 gr bullets, I don't think I would use the 357 Mag for that. It gets close to the 35 rem when both are fired from a contender. I'd vote yes. Gianni.

[357maximum]

[smilie=1: The contender/encore platforms were created for the 357 max....everything else is just a gimmick, to sell barrels...:mrgreen:

[35remington]

The Maximum is a very good choice to clean up the many sloppily chambered .357 Contenders out there with poor throats. A friend bought a used .357 Contender barrel and chambered it for the Maximum with a proper throat, adding power and much better accuracy at the same time.

Excellent deer hunting round, with the advantages of a straight case in reloading. Shoots like a house afire.

[dragonrider]

I have a ten inch 357 mag barrel that I rechambered to max, coincidentaly I was playing with it today. I haven't done a lot of work with it yet so I can't say much except that I like it.

[wiljen]

I have a 10 inch 357 Max barrel that does well with 180gr bullets and 4198 or 4227. I wouldn't have any reservations about using it on deer out to 100yds.

[JSH]

If you go the way of the max, be warned the forcing cone type throat is real long. I had a 14" factory 357 max. I didn't fire a shot through it after doing a chamber cast. By the chamber cast the case was almost 1/4" to short. I am talking NO sign of rifling, a 204 lyman seated out didn't even come close. The gent I got it from said it shot very well, I didn't even waste my time and promptly traded it off. I kept the dies and about 500 pieces of brass. I had thoughts of a rechamber of a 357 mag. After chasing sevral barrels down and playing with them a bit i won't ruin the good 357 mag barrel I have now. I would question if the max will really clean up a TC barrel well enough to hassle with it. I know and have seen a couple of rechambers that cleaned up fairly good, but IMHO I would have sold the barrel and took the $ along with what the rechamber cost and put it towards a TRUE custom barrel with a real throat.
I have read here and other places the max will out do the 35 remington, dunno how with the Rem having more powder space. It may hold its own up to 158-180, but heavier than that the Rem has to be way ahead.
Yes I know the max is a higher pressure case than the other, but with what I have done with my 357mag/180CB GC, and some info from LASC website, I am not sure I need a max. I have ran some very stiff loads through this barrel(1768fps) with nary a hitch or loose primers as one fellow stated. Starline brass and Fed GM primers only, loaded 6 times so far
357 max brass can be tough to find at times but with a bit of searching a couple of hundred pieces should not be hard to find nor break the bank.
I would sure like to get my hands on a good chambered max some day to compare to the mag-max and 35 Rem.
Go for the max, but be real wary of a factory chamber, your milage may vary.
I look forward to hearing of some reults in the future.
I am planning of playing with the 35 Remington and CB's a bit more this summer as my 35 cal moulds have not seen the service due them.
Jeff

[Parson]

I have a 10 in. Contender that started as a 357 mag that I opened up to Max. Using 200 gr. cast with gas check and a healthy dose of Lil-gun I have no problem cracking 1950 fps

[leftiye]

Parson, Yeah, and just think if you had a 22" barrel!

In the right gun (and it aint a contender) the larger cased .35 Rem is more ctg. than the Max. But you have to load it to what I call rifle pressures (48,000 psi). In that situation it also out preformz the .357 Herrett too. But it is surprizing just how close the Max gets to even a .358 Win. Again, rifle pressures.

[lar45]

I've heard of Contender frames getting stretched with 35 Rem hot loads. No personal experience, just the friend of a friend whose cousin used his Dad's rifle loads in the TC and then it wouldn't lock up anymore or something like that???
I read a long time ago about haveing problems with ignition in the 35 Rem with handloads because of the small sholder and no rim. Any info on that?

Now what about the 357 Herrett? It seems like this could be a really versitle round. Use cheap and plentiful 30-30 brass. Pleanty of capacity to get 180's up to speed safely. How does it do when loaded down for plinking loads? 158 or 180's at 1200ish?? or less??

I see lots of Herrett barrels in 14". How much do they really loose in a 10" bbl?

[35remington]

JSH, no complaints about a TC barrel rechambered from 357 to Maximum as to accuracy, gun belonging to a friend of mine. Groups very well.

I've run the .35 Remington in a Contender pretty extensively. The Maximum won't outdo it, but to get a substantial lead on it you have to run the .35 Remington fairly hard.

No problems with misfires in the Contender but I don't have an oversized chamber or undersized ammo.

As regards ammunition, none of the reloading book stuff will even begin to cause the Contender in the old frame style any problems in .35 Remington but some of Bob Milek's old loads are right on the the limit of what should be used. For whatever it's worth I've have more problems with the 7-30 Waters in original frame Contenders giving slight warning signs of pressure using loading manual recommendations.

I think the .35 Remington is better suited for the G2 frame, but I shot mine with the standard frame for a long time with no problems. Still use it for my small calibers-25-20, K Hornet, .223, etc.

[hivoltfl]

Like several others here I have a bunch of Contender stuff, Fella at the range sometime ago was testing a factory 10 inch max, he had it clamped in a rigid rest and testing at 50 yds, no one was impressed with his results, I wanted to get my hands on it and play with it some as I felt I could dial it in, with some of my loads, One good thing about the 35 rem in a handgun is the ability to shoot hangun bullets that will give better results at the lower than rifle velocities, I myself would never rechamber a good shooting 357 mag, maybe one that didnt shoot well I might. As a whole I have found most Contender barrels will shoot well beyond my capabilites, my two cents are spent.

Rick

[C A Plater]

I've heard of Contender frames getting stretched with 35 Rem hot loads. No personal experience, just the friend of a friend whose cousin used his Dad's rifle loads in the TC and then it wouldn't lock up anymore or something like that???
I read a long time ago about haveing problems with ignition in the 35 Rem with handloads because of the small sholder and no rim. Any info on that?


I shoot the same loads in my Marlin rifle and 14" Contender barrel and to date, no ill effects. My load is with IMR4064 and at the maximum published but both my chambers are good and not oversize. I've heard of but never experienced the problem personally. It would certainly be possible with sloppy chambers and / or shoulders being set back too far reloading to have ignition problems.

[JSH]

My 35 Rem is a some what of a wild cat. It has had the face of the barrel opened up to use 303 Brit. or 30-40 Krag brass, ala 35 Remington rimmed. This may actually serve two purposes. One the aid in positive ignition because of the rim. Second it may also help with pressure, with the larger face for the rearward thrust. The extractor has been cut so as to be able to use standard rimless 35 Remington also, if I were to ever get in a pinch.
As to stretching the frame. I can't really comment on that as I have not heard of this happening with the 35Rem. I have seen a frame or two that has been buggered by some wildcat and/or factory cartridges. I think the pressure signs were there but some one did not see or read them.
I still see that there are a few folks that seem to think the G2 will handle a bit more. I am inclined to agree with that for the most part because of the "gussets" that are made into the sides of the frame.
Is the contender frame weak, certainly not. I had read the thread some time ago on the gent firining a 445 through a 309JDJ barrel. It did not come apart believe it or not. I have meet this fellow and consider him a good friend. He took the complete gun to JD and he could not believe it. They took the barrel off of the frame and sent the frame to TC, not telling them what actually happened. The frame was magnafluxed, measured, etc. and was found to still be up to their specs. He still uses this frame, but relegates it to nothing more than a 7TCU.
The above gent posted that he had pressure signs show with the 7-30. Hmmmmmmm, I have found it to be as user friendly as the 7TCU as far as loads go. I have used 7-30 brass and 3030 formed brass with out a hitch for several years.
Lar, I can't comment on the 35 Herret personally. I do know that the 30 Herret is right on the heels of the 3030 with same powder same bullet. The Herret only fell short about 100fps with just bit less powder, this was comparing a 10" Herret to a 14" 3030 though! These were considered max loads in both. The Herret still has a small following. IMHO this is one of the neater "cats" ever designed with a pistol in mind. Bob Milek could sure write good article, along with Steve Herret. I still have the original magazine where Steve necked a 44mag down to 22 on some type of a bet. Was a royal PITA, but none the less a ver neat project.

There are enough different powders out there now that the Herret's effciency is no big issue any more. I still think effcient went out the door when rifle calibers were first poked int to a TC.
Jeff

[felix]

Basically, you have to figure cost per round, and what velocity you want with what boolit. And, the recoil desired given the same gun. Small cases = lighter boolits for the same trajectory. If you don't shoot the gun often enough to matter, then I would opt for the biggest case in this situation, and that would be the straight up 35Rem with 16 twist. Luckily, this is the standard twist for the 220 grainers or less. ... felix

[STP]

I used a Super14 for IHMSA Unlimited Class back in 1990 before I started casting.
When a fellow club member got a T/C Custom Shop Carbine barrel and found the issue with the chamber, he was not pleased. I bought it thinking I could work with it as this was just after the casting bug had finally struck here.
I started with the heaviest mould I had at the time...the RCBS SIL-180. My efforts were strictly 100yd targets using the best target scope on hand, a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10 with target knobs. Plain WW alloy sized .358 and using H4227. Groups were better than I was accustomed to with the Military bolt guns, but it had a tendancy to show a bit of vertical that I could not explain.
Another CB caster offered up a coffee can full of 358627`s and said use these with H4227. Having never seen this boolit before, my thoughts were of the increased recoil off the bags, as I had been emulating the BR guy`s....holding just firmly enough so that scope didn`t give me the "eyebrow tattoo".
I decided to go even further out with this new-to-me boolit and try it at 200yds. More vertical...
At a IHMSA match locally, one of the guys had some homemade forends with a 2-1/4 inch wide flat bottom for sale so I brought one home and put it on. My next visit to the range gave only slightly better results. A bud was with me that day and asked why I was holding it in the bags so lightly. Hmmmm... So I went to a firm hold, including more cheek pressure down on the comb. That made a big difference! That coffee can of boolits lasted but a few weeks that summer.

[Scrounger]

Lar, complicate your life; look up ballistics on the .358 JDJ, which is the .444 Marlin case necked down to .358. OK pressure wise for lever actioms and Contenders and dang close to the .358 Winchester in performance. And if you want to give your .30-30 steroids, rechamber it to .309 JDJ. And then there's the .375 JDJ....

[Marlin Junky]

[smilie=1: The contender/encore platforms were created for the 357 max....everything else is just a gimmick, to sell barrels...:mrgreen:

Mike,

What about the .357 Herrett? If .357 SuperMag brass fades away, one can easily make .357 Herrett ammo from an assortment of cases.

MJ

[Blackwater]

I have both a .357 and a Maxi in 10" oct. Contender barrels, and I really like them both. As to which'll kill deer better, there's probably not much difference, really. The only thing my Maxi barrel will do is shoot jacketed bullets to .357 rifle velocities, and on our local southern whitetails, the "shock" effect CAN, SOMEtimes, put them down in their tracks better. A buddy has used the 140 Horn. XTPHP on them with really good results, including penetration from his Marlin M-94. I don't like chasing deer, but I'm still a bit conflicted which to take on my next deer hunt. I may get a HP driller for loaded rounds. I think that'd actually make the on target difference nil on deer.

The Maxi booms more, and is about all the recoil I really want in the light 10" oct. barreled gun, with Grippers from Pachmyrr. I can still shoot it a lot without undue fatigue. The .357 makes a much neater understudy with HBWC's and any light load for gettin' the old eye back in on the game.

I think I'll scope the Maxi, since the higher velocities with the J-bullets will allow up to maybe 150 yd. shots, where applicable, and keep the mag. barrel iron sighted for packin' and pleasure and practicing. Two barrels CAN have a plus here. More's always better, right?

[Poohgyrr]

The 35 Rem caught my eye, Bob Milek used to write about that combo, but I haven't read or heard much since he passed away- I don't shoot with guys who use these rounds either, so I'm probably out of touch on what is happening these days.

[cbrick]

Anyone have anything to share about these? I keep looking at some of my molds, and have been looking at the Contenders for a while.

Here is an article by Glen Fryxell on the Max. Very interesting, has some load data too.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell357Max.htm

Rick

[357maximum]

Mike,

What about the .357 Herrett? If .357 SuperMag brass fades away, one can easily make .357 Herrett ammo from an assortment of cases.

MJ



Don

If the 357 maxi fades away?.........................I am not worried....I have MY bases covered to the tune of over 3k of brass, and more is on the way. I also have a straighwalled pistol rule to live with. I can do what the 35rem or the herret can do anyway...the law makes no sense but I am kinda glad it existed...the max has opened my eyes to what can be done in a heavy barrelled straight wall cartridge gun... Ballistically from my experience I do not feel crippled with the straightwall rule any longer... I have had my 180 grainers up to 2300 and a bit beyond...no I will not post THAT load data...other than the fact that LilGun and N-120 were involved...My custom 357 max 15 inch full bull encore "pistol" has been a real eye opener..I can nail a 8 inch plate out to 250+ yds everytime...the bucks are not safe....the buck I killed at 142 yards last fall would likely agree that the max is deadly. and it does it with NO/Nada/zilch caseforming.


You should see what my max will do if I am willing to waste/ruin cases.!!!!!!!! I do not do it any longer...but I know what I can do iffin I choose...I also have several K of 444 brass to neck down if I ever decide to get real mean in a 35[smilie=1: and I proably will when my throat gets washed away eventually.

[jeff223]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid225/p0d4c99e8ef26b37a7569fa4aea0b4477/ea09efd1.jpg
here's my 15 inch SSK 357max.i dont think you will ever see the max fade away.If Remington ever stops making brass im sure Starline will start in making brass.the 357max is my most favorite barrel of them all

[Poohgyrr]

Boy, the things I learn here... Thanks............

:coffeecom

[jeff223]

here's another picture for ya!its the same 357max but with a differant grip and forend.this shows the kind of damage the 357max can do on game.the wound channel was very big and the deer went down in short order.80yd shot out of a popup blind and the pistola was rested on a set of home made shootin sticks.my 445supermag doesnt bring down deer any faster than the 357max
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid221/p261bb1c175f37e21ef0f7b2e8975622a/eb649dae.jpg
the boolit was a 180gr Hornady XTP,sorry guys i chickened out when it came down to hunting with a cast boolit:oops: i plan on using cast for hunting this year