Seating a rifle Boolit??

[tomme boy]

Do you have to bell the mouth like on a pistol round? I have no way to do this. I chamfer the mouth when I use j-words. Will this be OK or will I have to get something to bell the mouth?

What will I need to get if I do need to?

[44man]

Do you have to bell the mouth like on a pistol round? I have no way to do this. I chamfer the mouth when I use j-words. Will this be OK or will I have to get something to bell the mouth?

What will I need to get if I do need to?
Yes, find a way to bell just enough, then just remove the bell after seating. It takes very little, just so you don't shave lead. If you can seat as you have it, it is OK.
Some even use needle nose pliers with a twist. Even a light tap on a ball bearing on the case will do it. There are dies too.

[ShooterAZ]

Yes you will need to bell the case mouths. Chamfering is not enough. M Die works for this.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I used, and still do, a pair of small needle nosed pliars for case mouth flaring. It`s a trial and error process of finding how much pressure to exert to make the flare for seating the bullet. I still use the pliars for calibers I don`t have a "M" die for now.Robert

[Moonie]

While not as good as the M die I use the lee expander, it works well enough.

[7br]

A small punch where the shank is larger than the case mouth works well to. Bump it just a little bit.

[303Guy]

For me, being able to make my boolits whatever size I wand and also being able to size (or not size) the necks to any size too, I don't need to bell, just the chamfer. It does make seating a little trickier though. It's not my normal loading practice as I use paper patched boolits with just the chamfer. Those compress the paper so don't need 'neck tension' as such (but of course there is some) so it's not really applicable to plain cast - unless you're single loading. For a sized neck, it's not always necessary to remove the flare, depending on the seated neck diameter (although there should always be a small clearance in the chamber).

[44man]

For me, being able to make my boolits whatever size I wand and also being able to size (or not size) the necks to any size too, I don't need to bell, just the chamfer. It does make seating a little trickier though. It's not my normal loading practice as I use paper patched boolits with just the chamfer. Those compress the paper so don't need 'neck tension' as such (but of course there is some) so it's not really applicable to plain cast - unless you're single loading. For a sized neck, it's not always necessary to remove the flare, depending on the seated neck diameter (although there should always be a small clearance in the chamber).
That is true, on my 45-70 I not remove it if it chambers because it helps center the boolit. The key is "does it chamber?"

[tomme boy]

Thanks guys. I never seen this mentioned here anywhere. I thought you had to, but I never seen it said.

[geargnasher]

Thanks guys. I never seen this mentioned here anywhere. I thought you had to, but I never seen it said.

It's not mentioned much because it's a "given". All the Lyman reloading books tell how to do it when loading cast boolits. Someone just got me to using the RCBS expander dies for cast boolits, they're a MUCH better die than the "M" die if you can find one the size you need. The die body, threaded rod, locknut, and various expander spuds are sold separately, and once you get the complete setup all you need for other calibers is a different expander spud.

Gear

[grouch]

I must be doing things wrong. I didn't find it necessary to bell case necks on bottle neck cases unless the boolits were big enough to bulge the necks. Now I use collet dies, and can adjust neck tension so that doesn't happen.
Grouch

[DrCaveman]

I've never had the privilege of using an M die or the rcbs dies, I chose the lee expander die because it works with a wide variety of calibers and cases.

Probably not as ideal as the other two dies, but very affordable and seems to work pretty well for me. No point in letting the brass swage down your boolits. I did find it odd that none of my rifle die sets contained expander dies. I have a 45-70 die set on the way which includes a powder-through expander die, we'll see how it works with cast.

Seems that most dies, and most reloading equipment, is intended for users of jacketed bullets. You gotta take some different approaches, and possibly buy some extra dies to properly use your cast boolits.

[geargnasher]

The Lee Universal "expander" die is only a belling die, it doesn't expand the case neck at all. This is why it's pretty useless for most modern bottleneck cartridges. The sizer dies almost always make the necks too small for cast boolits unless you're using a neck bushing die with the right size bushing for your needs. The Lyman and RCBS dedicated expander dies can be had in most of the sizes a cast boolit shooter needs, and expand the case neck properly without the boolit having to do it.

Gear

[MikeS]

Gear, the RCBS die you're talking about, is it included in the RCBS 'Cowboy' dies? Or is it a separately available die? I've never had good luck using the RCBS expander dies that come in their standard pistol sets, so I used a Lyman M die. Now I use Lyman's 'Multi Expand Charge Die' which has interchangable hollow expanders that let you mount a 7/8-14 threaded powder measure on top so you can charge the case at the same time you expand, just like the Lee dies let you. I even use it for 30 cal rifle cartridges using the 32 pistol expander, and it usually works fine. I say usually, as for some reason using the 32 expander won't work when trying to load Trail Boss, and I find that Lyman's accumeasure won't work at all with SR4759!

[tomme boy]

I just ordered the RCBS expander in 0.310" and a extra mandrel for 0.309". I wasn't sure on the one to get. I am sizing to 0.310" for my 308win.

Mike, no they are not the same.

Here is the die an extra expander I ordered.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004439821

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004439867

[Bullet Caster]

I've never had the priviledge of using an RCBS Expander nor a Lyman M die because my needle nose pliers are not caliber specific and work quite well after you get the hang of it. You develop a certain "feel" when you do a bunch at a time. I only do this for rifle ammo as I use the Lee powder thru expander and charge 'em at the same time for pistol. BC

[geargnasher]

I've never had the priviledge of using an RCBS Expander nor a Lyman M die because my needle nose pliers are not caliber specific and work quite well after you get the hang of it. You develop a certain "feel" when you do a bunch at a time. I only do this for rifle ammo as I use the Lee powder thru expander and charge 'em at the same time for pistol. BC

You're not expanding the neck that way. Bellmouthing, yes, but not properly expanding. I use Nodleneese on occasion too for some things, but it won't give your case necks the correct tension for the boolits full-length like the proper, parallel-sided expander plug will.

Gear

[geargnasher]

I just ordered the RCBS expander in 0.310" and a extra mandrel for 0.309". I wasn't sure on the one to get. I am sizing to 0.310" for my 308win.

Mike, no they are not the same.

Here is the die an extra expander I ordered.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004439821

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0004439867

I'm still a bit confused as to what's inside that complete assembly, but I assume it's an expander similar to the extra you ordered screwed on the end of the rod inside the die. Most of the RCBS expander dies that are of the "pass through" variety come with the large-diameter top plug and not the little bolt through the top with the small locknut, so I think you got the right part. I'm interested to see what you get.

I ordered the die body # 044-39800 and the threaded rod # 044-39801, borrowed a locknut from my spare parts drawer, and purchased the expander spuds I needed separately. Midsouth is certainly a LOT more reasonable on prices for these particular parts than several other places I checked, so don't buy them from Midway for sure, they're like 30% higher on the spud prices.

Gear

[tomme boy]

Even with my dealer account at Midway, MidSouth was cheaper. I always shop around. At Grafs, it is sometimes cheaper to run an order threw them with my girlfriends name than my dealer account. Shipping sometimes makes or breaks it. But most places don't give a very big discount on reloading stuff anymore. Midway is the worst.

[MtGun44]

I use the Lee universal expander to bell the rifle cases. Works fine for me.
One day I will get a few Lyman M dies and try them.

Bill

[MT Gianni]

Lyman makes two M dies, M1 and M2. One is for rifle the other for shorter rifle and pistol cartridges. The buttons are interchangeable and run around $5. I cringe when people tell me they have an M die in 4-5 calibers.

[Hank10]

I reload a lot and probably have way too much stuff but I have about 150 sets of dies and each set has a M die and NO expander on the decapping rod so they only expand from the outside, much easier that way. For seating cast bullets i use a M die the same size or no more than .001 smaller. I use the M dies for loading jacketed bullets also, much easier to sit the bullets straight up in the cases before running them thru the seating die and give less runout of the bullet also which usually means more accuracy. Occasionally I'll have to bell a few cases and simply use a smaller case, such as a .22/250, 243, 257, 7mm to bell a .30 cal, simply insert it in the neck and give it a little tap, done.
H10