.44 Colt - Plan "B"

[Phineas Bluster]

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[BCall]

They look neat. I am interested to see if they will work. I would worry about lube capacity with BP. If you still want to try heel based boolits, you might try cartridgeconversion.com. I would bet he could either supply some heel based or direct you to someone who could.

[0verkill]

Bernie at oldwestbulletmoulds.com can make you a heel base mould if your buddy's still interested in one. He makes crimp dies too that are modified LEE Factory Crimp type dies, but I can't vouch for them.

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Phineas. Those are some very nice looking bullets. I think the hollow base will expand just fine..as for lube..I wonder just how effective the originals were? Some of those .44 Colt bullets didn't even have grooves..just dip-lubed.
A few years ago, I wanted to try out a Kirst .38 long-colt conversion cyl. in my 1971 era Colt 1851 .36 navy re-make. I wanted to try smokeless..but had neither heeled or hollow base bullets..what to do? I had some soft-cast Ideal 358413 bullets. These measured .359 from mould. This was a snug thumb press in revolver muzzle..but in no way would fill the groove dia.
I pressed these nose first into a Lyman .359 sizer die..base flush with die mouth. & chucked up in lathe. I ran a 5/16" ball cutter .1 deep in base.
Loaded over 2.5 to 3.0gr. Bullseye, accuracy was very good at 25yds. But the real surprise came when I picked up some of those fired slugs at backstop..I was hoping at least the last band would expand & take rifling...the whole bullet bearing surface was fully expanded to groove dia! Fast smokeless powders will obturate.

[StrawHat]

The hollow base looks good. You swaged these? Interesting. I shoot a replica of the 1860 Richards conversion revolver. I use boolits cast from 457130, (a GB Collar Button replica, about 145 grains), and the 450290, (a 155 grain, hollow based RNFP). I have sized both to .431 as the bore on my revolver is .429.

For a revolver load, the grooves on your boolit should be fine. The deep grooves are needed for rifle length barrels. Good luck with the project!

[Wayne Smith]

I can vouch for the converted Lee dies to crimp. I use one for the .41LC that I got from HarryO before I knew Bernie was making them. I don't know who made the ones HarryO had.

[bob208]

try the lee 200 gr conical for cap and call guns the base is heeled so they start in the cylinder stright. i use the ones for a .36 cal for .38 conversions.

[1874Sharps]

Phineas,

Very cool project you are doing! In my experience in shooting an original Starr and 44 Russian S&W with BP loads I would say you may need a bit deeper lube groove to provide a little more BP lube (I assume the barrel length is the standard 8 inches). I could be wrong, your experiments will tell. I think you are on the right track and your endeavors will succeed! Let us know how it goes.

[Seth Hawkins]

PB - I have everything needed to cast and load heel-based 44 Colt rounds. If you'd like some bullets, or for that matter some loaded rounds to try, drop me a PM with your particulars. I can load them with just about any make & granulation of powder you'd like - provided, of course, that it's black powder. My bullets are designed to replicate the originals with a single large groove that I fill with SPG.

[0verkill]

try the lee 200 gr conical for cap and call guns the base is heeled so they start in the cylinder stright. i use the ones for a .36 cal for .38 conversions.

I forgot about those. I even have the mould. If you want I could try to round up a few for you to test.

A bit off topic, but some of you guys may can help with this, Is there a place to get a 44 Colt cylinder for an 1860 replica.

[smkummer]

Sure want to know how this turns out. Did a little research and found out that 44 Colt cases now being offered will load with .429 bullets for use in either a 44 special or Magnum but also that one can use them for what you are doing in original guns. neat! You might even be able to find a smokeless powder load such as trail boss that works with low pressure if you tire of cleaning black powder.

[StrawHat]

Here's a pic of the thinner-skirted HB boolit...

...I'm beginning to think that thin skirt might be trouble.

PB

Phineas,

I am inclined to agree that a skirt that thin and deep may be troublesome. Have you ever seen the HB from some of the 45 caliber bullets loaded by Remington in the past? Not nearly so deep and maybe a bit thicker. Are you using the depth of the HB to control the weight of the bullet? If so, consider just making the nose shorter.

When swaged from nearly pure lead, I would imagine a thicker skirt would still expand enough to fill the bore. Just a hunch as I do not swage. Best of luck and please keep us posted as to results. Even though my bore is .430, I am still very interested in your findings.

[StrawHat]

Interesting information. I figured the thin skirts would blow out and produce poor accuracy. Being left in the cases was not even concidered. Good luck and keep us posted.