Model 94 accuracy

[Norm]

I have a pre-64 Winchester 94 in 30-30 that isn't shootin too straight. I was thinking of rebarreling or having the barrel recrowned. Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
If re-barreling, anyone know of a good source for a good barrel, 20" top eject.
Thanks

[725]

Before you go to all that, there are several things you can do to improve the 94. Really too many for me to post here. If you have access to the Win 94 book written by Sam Fadala, I'd grab it. He lists and describes several, not too hard to do things, that improve the '94. If you can't find the book, PM me and I'll try and copy the relevant portions. It's a great read and should be in your library. I've read it several times.

A good crown, loosen the barrel band, shorten the mag tube end cap screw. And more.

You could always send it to me and I'd give it a good home in it's dotage. :)

[TXGunNut]

What kind of accuracy are you getting? What are you expecting? What kind of shape is the bore (including crown) in?

[MT Gianni]

How does it do with factory loads?

[FergusonTO35]

What kind of sights or scope are you using? Some 94's had misaligned dovetails from the factory. This was mostly a problem with the last decade or so of production but I've seen it in older ones too.

[fecmech]

After accurizing:
What is the best accuracy some of you have gotten?
With cast Lead boolits & jacketed ?
With a .357 mag Model 94 my best 10 shot 100 yd group with Lyman 358429 at 1600 fps was 2.9". With .38 level loads( 1100fps) 10 shots into 2.8". If shooting 5 shot groups I have shot many just under 2" but those are not repeatable. My 94 is a dependable 3-4 moa rifle at 100 yds with both magnums and .38's. This is a box stock 94.

[mongo]

I have a 94ae in .44 that isnt the best shooter, 4in at 100 yds is about the best. Tried jacketed rounds and even purchased some factory rounds(that was hard to do lol) Tried it with a scope also. No change at all. I can almost match the accuracy with a mod29.

[Char-Gar]

Don't let this get out, but all of the stories about MOA levergun carbines is hooey! Load the magazine up and fired five quick rounds and 4 MOA is about what you will get. Now if you single load into the chamber, and fire one or two three round groups taking care that the barrel doesn't get hot, you might get 2 MOA groups.

These rifles are also very picky about how you hold them on sandbags. Whelen wrote years ago that the 94 Carbine was a 4 MOA gun and he was right. They are horseback hunting rifles and not target rifles. They are plenty accurate for their intended purpose.

[Alan in Vermont]

They are plenty accurate for their intended purpose.

Truer words have never been spoken/typed.

The 94 was/is a short range working rifle, not a target gun. 4 MOA will stay in the chest of a deer out to 150 + yds which is about as far as the cartridges it's chambered for are decent killers.

[ammohead]

With my eyes and iron sights...when I get 1.5" groups at 50 yards I am very happy. Now with my 3K weaver scoped xtr 94ae with 24"bbl in 7-30 waters and 139 gr hornady flat nose....whole nother story!

[FergusonTO35]

My Marlin Glenfield 30 is capable of one inch at 100 yards, the target is hanging above my reloading bench. Now could it do this all day long? Probably not, especially in my shaky hands. Still, its accurate enough for any situation around here!!

[Junior1942]

I'm betting cleaning rod wear from the muzzle has made the first 2" of your barrel a smoothbore.

[45 2.1]

Any well put together rifle will do better than most people can shoot them. It depends on the man and what he puts in the firearm. A 4" group out of a capable setup (44 Mag levers are not usually a capable setup either) shows the man for what he is.... a poor shot.

[bob208]

is the barrel clean? after all they are not corosive primers so you don't have to clean the gun after you shoot it. i have gotten many rifles to shoot good with a good cleaning with hoppes bench rest cleaner.


i know of a remington 788 in .308 that will not stay in 6" at 100 yd. you look in the barrel it is green from the built up copper. the boy is too lazy to clean it.

[atr]

+2 for Char-Gar
took my 1950's vintage with iron sights 30-30 out about a week ago just to keep it from becoming a total safe queen.....shooting 180 gr Cast at 50, 75 and 100 yds.....
from a rest at 100 yds I could hit a deer broadside but that was about it..... 4-6" "groups

conclusion.....back to my 340 in 30-30 with scope...1.5" x 1.5" groups at 100 yds !

[Char-Gar]

There is a very apparent difference in accuracy potential between rifles. This is because action design, chamber straightness/specs, barrel quality, barrel weight, bedding of wood to metal, method of stock attachment, tubular magazines, barrel bands, sights and the like are factors in rifle accuracy.

We have generations and generatons of match shooters that know that not all rifles are born equal. Rifles of the same lot can be placed in a machine rest and show accuracy differences. Some things like trigger pull make the rifle easier to shoot well. Other factors are just mechanical factors that don't care who the shooters is.

A good shot can shoot any rifle, good or poor, better than a bad shot. A good shot cannot turn a silk purse into a sows ear.

I started shooting competition with match 22s when I was twelve in 1954. I continue to shoot the 22 matches outdoor at 50 and 100 yards, and 50 and 100 meters until I turned 16 when I took up centerfire (30-06) match shooting (4 postion) out to 600 and even 1,000 yards. I placed very high in state rating and beat the roads to Camp Perry smooth for a number of years. Riflecraft has been my passion for 58 years and I do know how to shoot a rifle and can shoot one very well.

With that said, I am here to tell you all rifles and not equal and all rifles will not shoot was well as the marksman behind the butt plate. It takes a highly sophisticated match rifle to have more accuracy than a top notch shooter. Accuracy limitations are sometimes the shooter, and sometimes the rifle. Never just the shooter.

To say that all folks who turn in 4 MOA groups are poor shots is not only unfair and untrue, but it is arrogant as well.

[Char-Gar]

+2 for Char-Gar
took my 1950's vintage with iron sights 30-30 out about a week ago just to keep it from becoming a total safe queen.....shooting 180 gr Cast at 50, 75 and 100 yds.....
from a rest at 100 yds I could hit a deer broadside but that was about it..... 4-6" "groups

conclusion.....back to my 340 in 30-30 with scope...1.5" x 1.5" groups at 100 yds !

I have a 340 in 30-30 with a Lyman peep sight on it. It will turn in 1.5 MOA 100 yards groups with good cast bullet loads as well. They are amazing rifles considering the design and sale price. I have a good 1954 Winchester 70 in 30-06 that will do no better. I do have some rifles that will turn in better performance but they are pretty fancy rigs by comparison.

For as long as I can remember Savage rifles, be they bolt or lever have turned in excellent accuracy. They seem to be more consistent that Remington or even Winchester. It is possible toget a clunker from any maker, but Savage has always done well by me. I have never had a Savage clunker.

I had a 340 in 222 Rem that would shoot rings around a Remington 722 in the same caliber. I also had a 340 in 22 Hornet that would turn in better groups and scores that a Winchester 70 in the same caliber. The 340 is just butt ugly and has no panache, but they do shoot.

The only problem with my current 340 is part of the chamber forward of the case head has a little egg in it. It gives no problems with extraction, but I do have to full length size the cases each time for easy chambering.

[45 2.1]

To anyone who thinks leverguns are 4 MOA rifles, I suggest you take your money and go visit Frank Kelley. Your education will increase and your money will decrease. Some people learn what to put in those rifles and then again some don't. Plenty of things in print from "Paco" about that also.

You might also ask what a Marlin 44 Mag 1894 will do from Dutch4122. His rifle, his loads.... another shooter.

[shotman]

A friend has a 94 from back in teens. has no blue and stock is ruff as a tree. He dont load but will take a deer about every year. He uses winchester 170 gr silver tip that are 50+ years old has about 10 boxes left. I shot the gun with some 150 rem and some cast and was lucky to hit a paper plate at 50yds. The 170gr would hold 2in easy

[Char-Gar]

A friend has a 94 from back in teens. has no blue and stock is ruff as a tree. He dont load but will take a deer about every year. He uses winchester 170 gr silver tip that are 50+ years old has about 10 boxes left. I shot the gun with some 150 rem and some cast and was lucky to hit a paper plate at 50yds. The 170gr would hold 2in easy

The Winchester 170 Silver Tip was the favorite deer load in my part of the world. It was a deer killing load.

[Junior1942]

I'm betting cleaning rod wear from the muzzle has made the first 2" of your barrel a smoothbore.This is just to make sure you don't miss this advice. Back when I was in the market for a used Model 94 30-30 I kept a jeweler's loope in my pocket to have at the handy in pawn shops. Many used M94 rifles were religiously cleaned from the muzzle by their owners after each range session. After a few years, they had zero rifling near the muzzle as a consequence. Look down your barrel from the muzzle! Get in good light and use a magnifying glass if you have one.

PS: The gray coating on aluminum cleaning rods is aluminum oxide. It's used to make sandpaper......

[Chicken Thief]

Backboring has saved many a ruined muzzle, and made the rifle into a shooter again.

[Rick R]

Just as a thought, could a .30-30 with a ruined bore be rebored to some other cartridge? Say .32 or .35?

[FergusonTO35]

You sure can, probably wouldn't be cheap though. If a barrel in the desired caliber is available that would probably be your best bet. There are a few smiths out there who specialize in this work, Rifle magazine had an article on it a few years ago.