Question for the Hopkins and Allen Guru's

[4060MAY]

Picked up a H&A .36 cal. underhammer ..Model "Off-Hand" made by Numrich Arms..not a true .36 cal, uses a .340 ball
the question..is it suppose to have a foreend, if so how does it attach

[Nobade]

I have one of their short buggy rifles, and it has a forend. Held on with pins through the barrel. I don't think the "offhand" model had a forend, though I could be mistaken!

Good find BTW, they are neat rifles!

[pietro]

I have a .36 H&A underhammer, too - but I removed the FE, because I thought it looked more "period" w/o one.

You can tell if your rifle was originally so equipped by simply examining the lower part of the rear half of the barrel - look for one or two very small holes, drilled perpendicular to the RR for the FE crosspin(s).

I filled the holes in my bbl with black paint, making them very hard to detact.

.

[4060MAY]

Thanks
no hole for a cross pin
guess I will have to wear welders glove when I shoot it

[Nobade]

Thanks
no hole for a cross pin
guess I will have to wear welders glove when I shoot it

Funny, we were just discussing that a few days ago. My daughter decided falconer's gloves were the ticket. She shoots left handed, and we were discussing how the underhammer is an equal opportunity rifle to burn the arm of everyone, no matter how they hold it.

[FL-Flinter]

The presence or lack thereof a forestock is not an indication of period anything or not because the extreme versatility of the underhammer was exploited to its full extent long before any of us, or our parents, were around. Fat, skinny, long, short, straight, perchbelly, schnabel, beavertail, single-pipe, splinter-pipe, metal..... if you can think of it, it's likely that someone else also had the same thought long ago.

As for attachment of wood, I typically use pins but not through the barrel

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Slimline/P1040369.jpg

[docone31]

Mark, does know his underhammers!
He does a great job on them. You might contact him to make a forestock. His work is spot on.
He has done work for me, and his work is quality. A good guy to know.

[curator]

Pics of one recently sold online auction:
http://www.gunauction.com/buy/7577872/black-powder/hopkins-and-allen-offhand-.45-cal-under-hammer

[Rick Hodges]

Would one of those brass cap cups help with the arm burning? (the cups that are held on with the nipple) I used one on an old .45 cal. CVA "Kentucky" rifle...the cheap one with the two piece stock. It shot fine and stopped the burning of the stock wood.

I still kick myself for not picking one of those H&A's up back when they were $49.99 brand new. Nice little rifles.

[pietro]

They're called "flash cups", and the one on mine doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference.

.

[Hanshi]

All are correct about the fore ends being pinned through tiny holes in the barrel, at least on the older ones. As for burning, it's a non issue in the hunting woods because heavier clothes are worn. But in summer mufti it's an "Ouchie" situation. I have tried laying a towel over my forearm and it caught fire. As long as the charge in the barrel isn't so heavy it blows the hammer back to half cock, the problem is lessened to a great degree. These are wonderful guns and shoulder nicely and they are accurate in the extreme. Mine is very old and holds many, many good memories; too many for me to ever get rid of it. I'm hoping to soon get a trigger/ hammer/trigger guard spring soon. I'll be shooting it again when this is complete.

[4060MAY]

Numrich has a forend for about 20.00 for 15/16 barrel...claim it is in stock....but there are no holes in my barrel that I can find..not planning on drilling any...guess I'll have to live with it

[Crawdaddy]

My guess is no, it shouldn't have. I just bought an H&A Turn barrel and it does not have one. The general design is similar to yours.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7105/7351690830_9a6782b526.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351690830/)
Turn barrel (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cjhollic/7351690830/) by Crawdaddy Mark (http://www.flickr.com/people/cjhollic/), on Flickr


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[Tatume]

Hi Crawdaddy,

Is your's the one that was for sale on GunsAmerica recently?

Take care, Tom

[Crawdaddy]

No, I bought it at a gun shop in Trinidad Colorado. Do you recall what it sold for? Trying to figure out what it is worth. Not much information on it.




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[bob208]

i have three off hand models all three have forearms. one has the marbels sights plus a peep sight. all are .45 one had the forearm removed and a heavier barrel put on. i have shot it for 10 years and never had a problem with a brunt arm. i shoot in a short sleeve shirt. i rethreaded the barrel and use a hot shot nipple. if you really are having problems try using a arm guard for shooting a bow.

the only one i have seen cataloged without a forearm was the target model it had a longer heaver barrel it was only in .45.

[Tatume]

No, I bought it at a gun shop in Trinidad Colorado. Do you recall what it sold for? Trying to figure out what it is worth. Not much information on it.

I'm sorry, they didn't post the sale price, and removed the asking price when the item sold.

[Tatume]

Last night I wrote to Mark at Fire & Iron about building an underhammer rifle. He doesn't post his address, so I had no idea where he was. Today I found he is probably inundated by TS Debby. So Mark, if you're reading this, get back to me after you dry out. Thanks, Tom

[docone31]

You will like Mark's work. He did some for me and it is quality.
And, yeah. He probably got some of Debbie.

[FL-Flinter]

Hey Doc, thanks for the kind words, glad you're happy with it! :D

Tom,

TS Debbie brought us much needed rain, 14" of it, most coming on Sun. & Mon., Wed. was the last of it. Had some breezy conditions but by God's grace the winds were well tamed to just breezy. :happy dance:

This was Sun. afternoon around 19:30 The water in the distance is a low spot on the neighbor's property, hasn't had standing water in it like that for six years. Water up-close is on our side.

(Pardon the fuzzy pic's, it was still raining and I was trying to hold the phone under the hood of my raincoat)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Family/06_24_2012_TSdebbie_a.jpg

This is also on our side, normal runoff area, just a lot more water than normal. During a heavy rain it's common for it to be 3-4 feet wide and 0.5-0.75" deep, this is bit more and about 2" deep. If not for the little piles of pine needles and leaves left behind, by yesterday afternoon you wouldn't even know it rained. They have over-built this land and pumped so much water out of the ground it's amazing the whole state hasn't turned into one big sinkhole. Felt two little ground tremors here Wed. night around 23:00 but no holes in the yard other than from Armadillos & moles ... we're blessed, very blessed!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/markkw/Family/06_24_2012_TSdebbie_b.jpg

[Coffeecup]

Would one of those brass cap cups help with the arm burning? (the cups that are held on with the nipple)

Not in my experience--the cup seemed to channel the blast and concentrate it more right into one spot on my forearm. I did find that deepening the hammer nose helped some. Since the rifle was obtained for purposes of teaching kids, and getting them interested in shooting, I think we'll probably have a "long sleeve" requirement for all shooters.

[twotoescharlie]

love them old underhammers, gotta H&A 36, 50 cal buggy rifle built from a kit, and a
.62 cal.with a long hammock brl built from a kit. sure do like them.

TTC

[Fast Asleep]

The Off Hand model did not come with a forearm or ramrod ferrules. It was intended to be used as a target rifle, loading from a bench where the loading gear would be left while shooting.

Cheers,
Fast Asleep

[John Taylor]

The burning of the arm can sometimes be eliminated by replacing the nipple. If the nipple hole is oversize it has a tendency to force the hammer off the nipple and powder gasses can vent.
I make a few underhammers but don't have the time to do many. My little 32.
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l132/johnptaylor/brassUHafterblue.jpg

[KCSO]

On my last one the fore arm came back around the nipple in a big brass lined cone. I could cap the gun nicely with a capper but the brass lined foreend kept the cap flash off and easily removed. If you need any parts or help with an underhammer you can't do any better than FL Flinter he's the man and has the right quality parts.