?? Has this load data changed ?? 44 mag.

[gray wolf]

I am tired of searching the net for loads and I have a question.
My load book is the Lyman 45th Edition, ( I know it's old ) so am I
it is a soft cover with plastic spiral binding.
I would like to use this load data but I need to know if it is still usable.
They say it's from a S&W Model 29 6.5" barrel

********44 Magnum**********
250 cast bullet, My bullet is 429421

Bulls eye ------ Min. 4gr. Vel. 647 Max. 6gr. Vel. 858

Unique ------- 7gr. 819 11gr. 1200

2400 ------- 18 1088 22* 1295

Sam

[Nobade]

Bullseye is fine, I would call 10.0gr. Unique the max and 18gr. 2400 to be max. That 22gr. 2400 is WAY overpressure.

[obssd1958]

Hey Sam!!

I have Lyman's 43rd, 45th, and 49th. I also have the 3rd and 4th Editions of the Cast Bullet Handbook.
Here's the data for those 3 powders, from the 4 books that you don't have, for specifically the 429421:

Lyman's 43rd:
Bullseye____4.0---700fps___7.0---950fps
Unique_____8.0---850fps___13.5---1310fps
2400______16.0---980fps___23.0---1460fps
Lyman's 49th:
Bullseye____no data
Unique_____9.8---912fps___13.0---1147fps
2400______18.5---1087fps___20.6---1248fps
3rd Edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook
Bullseye____no data
Unique_____9.8---912fps___13.0---1147fps
2400______19.4---974fps___23.4---1232fps
4th Edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook
Bullseye____no data
Unique_____9.8---912fps___13.0---1147fps
2400______18.5---1087fps___20.6---1248fps

I know that it's almost more confusing, but if you need clarification on any of these, just give me a call. If you don't have my number handy, send me a PM.

Take care!!

Don

[Alan in Vermont]

Bullseye is fine, I would call 10.0gr. Unique the max and 18gr. 2400 to be max. That 22gr. 2400 is WAY overpressure.

Gee, I wish I had known that when I ran thousands of that load through my SBH shooting IHMSA matches and practice. I never had any indications of overpressure signs in my gun.

[gray wolf]

Thank you very much for the Info. It seems that the info for unique has changed a little. I shot 10 grains of unique and it seemed fairly stout so I needed to check.
I know it's a pain to type all that so I thank you a whole lot for doing it for me.


Sam

[ShooterAZ]

18.5 of 2400 is my standard "knock em in the dirt" and accurate load in my .44 SBH. More powder in that particular gun opens up the groups. My Contender however, likes 20-21 gr of 2400 with the same boolit, 240 Lee C240-240-SWC.

[BWelch47]

With the newer methods of measuring pressures and the development of manufacuring cleaner powders, load data has been changed. For example, a 357 Mag load using 2400, which I used in my SW28-2 is today considered to 1 grain over max. I have shot over 20,000 rounds with the load and my 28 is as tight as the day I bought it nearly 40 yrs ago.

Remember the original Keith load with 2400 was 22.5 grs of 2400. I would used the current data for guidence. Also, maximun loads do not mean that you will achieve best results. Sometimes you obtain better velocity and grouping with lesser loads.

[fcvan]

Loading with any powder is done using the 'guidelines' from the manual or the manufacturer. aren't we supposed to work up the load with each different lot of the same powder? For the loads I use on most cartridges I don't even approach max so I don't worry about minor differences from lot to lot. If I were a bench rest shooter however . . .

While at the NRA Annual Meeting, I spoke with the factory rep from Alliant regarding Blue Dot loads in the .357 Mag. He said if the can says Hercules go ahead and use the old data. According to the rep, the Alliant Blue Dot is not recommended for .357 as it isn't exactly the same. He also said they didn't change Blue Dot on purpose, it just came out different.

Old books are still a great reference and I have some old books. Nowadays, I use the internet a lot but I still compare to the old books. It is sad to see how few loads are listed in the Lyman #49 for the .41 Mag compared to my older books. FRank

[mpmarty]

Each new version of data reflect growing impact of lawyers in the shooing sports. I keep using the old data with old powder and never have a problem.

[Nobade]

Gee, I wish I had known that when I ran thousands of that load through my SBH shooting IHMSA matches and practice. I never had any indications of overpressure signs in my gun.

#429421 loaded to 1.610" with 22gr. of 2400 is a heavily compressed load producing 60,000 psi. Is this really what you were doing, or did you use a different bullet? Or load it to a longer OAL? That will change everything, y'know.

[dodgyrog]

Bullseye is fine, I would call 10.0gr. Unique the max and 18gr. 2400 to be max. That 22gr. 2400 is WAY overpressure.

Not so. I've used this load (22gr 2400) developed by Elmer Keith (father of the 44Mag) and it's fine.
I've also used it with a 200gr boolit and it is not too heavy and will go up to 23 or 24gr.
429421 is 200gr I believe. Are you gas checking them?

Mind you I would work up in sensible increments as common sense dictates!

[375RUGER]

the 429421 is a 250g boolit

[Will]

There may be a difference in the burn rate of the older Herc 2400 and the new stuff.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

23 grains 2400, & 300 grain bullet killed my bear.
I would not try it in a Smith 29 though, My Redhawk didnt care

[Nobade]

There may be a difference in the burn rate of the older Herc 2400 and the new stuff.

There sure is! The 2400 ole Elmer used is certainly not the same powder as what you get today if you buy a can of 2400. Even Alliant used to talk about that when they changed it, back in the late '80's or early '90's I believe.

[Mal Paso]

2400 is The Same Powder it always was: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=72355

IMHO When you get really sticky cases you are Expanding the Chamber which returns to trap the brass and you are in Metal Fatigue Territory. I won't shoot 22g of 2400 in my S&W.

[mdi]

Loading with any powder is done using the 'guidelines' from the manual or the manufacturer. aren't we supposed to work up the load with each different lot of the same powder? For the loads I use on most cartridges I don't even approach max so I don't worry about minor differences from lot to lot. If I were a bench rest shooter however . . .

While at the NRA Annual Meeting, I spoke with the factory rep from Alliant regarding Blue Dot loads in the .357 Mag. He said if the can says Hercules go ahead and use the old data. According to the rep, the Alliant Blue Dot is not recommended for .357 as it isn't exactly the same. He also said they didn't change Blue Dot on purpose, it just came out different.

Old books are still a great reference and I have some old books. Nowadays, I use the internet a lot but I still compare to the old books. It is sad to see how few loads are listed in the Lyman #49 for the .41 Mag compared to my older books. FRank

Yep, regardless of when the data was published, start low and work up.

[David2011]

I use 21 grains of 2400 with a 429421 in my Contender. With a perfectly sealed 14" tube it's a LOT of power and approaches carbine velocities. My lino boolits weigh 255 grains but won't cast any more that hard- it's a waste of linotype. I had never cast pure lino before any just wanted to try some out.

Alliant recommends a max of 20 grains with a 250 grain Keith boolit for a velocity of 1,390 fps. It's probably best to stick with the manufacturer''s guidelines in a S&W, or at least use a chrono to KNOW where you are with velocities. The SBH, Redhawk and Contender are capable of handling much higher pressures, hence the "Ruger and Contender Only" load data in some manuals.

David

[felix]

If I were a bench rest shooter however . . . BR shooters care only about winning and will shoot loads far exceeding any book max. Their guns are made heavy enough to idle at 65K cup. So, NEVER steal those loads. In fact, I am even surprised they publish them when considering these are lawyer days. ... felix

Rep also said they didn't change Blue Dot on purpose, it just came out different. ... Yep, every lot of any powder is different. When surprisingly it is the same via practice, it is by pure luck of the start-to-finish chemistry coming together as designed by selection and the process of manufacture. ... felix

[429421Cowboy]

I have used 18.0/2400 under a 240K which is listed as the start load in my Speer manual, but lately have pretty much given up on using twice as much powder to get a few hundred fps when 9.5 of Unique with a 240/250 swc will dump any deer that has held still long enough. Keith said his bullet performed better than any other he had ever used with everything from 5.0 of Bullseye, mid range 8.5/Unique loads up to his full power 22.0 of 2400 loads. I wouldn't have a problem with 22/2400 in my Rugers, IF i thought i needed a magnum load with 2400 insted of using H110 and likely i would use a heavier boolit as well.

[fatelk]

21.5gr 2400/240gr is about the maximum I've found in my S&W 29s before the cylinder starts bouncing backwards, but a friend loads his hotter for his Dan Wesson .44 with no problems.

[gray wolf]

After shooting 9.5 of unique I think I would proceed slowly up to 12 or 13 grains.
Perhaps stop at 10 and then switch to HS6 or something else.
But I have limited experience with the 44 mag, so I find myself going very slow.
Is this thinking wrong ?

[EDK]

After shooting 9.5 of unique I think I would proceed slowly up................................................ .................................................. .............
But I have limited experience with the 44 mag, so I find myself going very slow.
Is this thinking wrong ?

I saw a guy blow up a nicely engraved SAA clone at a Cowboy Action match...it made a lasting impression on a lot of people.

A lady blew up a rifle at the Quigley rifle shoot in Montana last week. Shrapnel on her face and her left hand had some major damage....they flew her to Salt Lake City and were optimistic about full recovery. A lot of pain and some big time expenses from whatever caused the train wreck. Not to mention destroying a nice old BALLARD rifle. She was the only one hurt; medical personnel and an ambulance are always at the shoot. PLUS there were several doctors and EMTs participating at the shoot who stepped up to the plate immediately.

The REALLY OLD LYMAN books have considerably hotter loads than the more recent ones...I've got some from the '60s. Pressure testing equipment is more sophisticated than it was then. Stay a little low for most of your ammo...proceed carefully for hunting/special purpose items...consider BUFFALO BORE or other high performance FACTORY ammo rather than making your own maximum loads.

Remember Uncle Ed's laws of handgunning.
1. If they don't make carbide dies and a DILLON shell plate for it, FORGET IT!!
2. If you need to load to MAXIMUM, you need a bigger caliber.

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

[jblee10]

I use 18.5 grains of 2400 behind a 262 gr Keith bullet (Mihec). I shoot it in my Redhawk. I have really only thought of that load as an upper midrange load and would not be afraid to raise the powder charge. I've just stuck with it because it works great for me.