Dillon, it's time to update

[Johnny_Cyclone]

There was another thread going on Dillon, and I typed this out. Then I thought...no that would hijack the tread so I started this one..

I'm wondering how many Dillon owners feel the same.
________

I'm a Dillon owner and I like my machines.

However, I think after years of producing the same machines over and over Dillon needs to upgrade the XL650 used primer catch, do something about the XL650 slipper slide.

Create some kind of tube-to-bottle primer catch for the Square Deal press vs the swinging bucket.

Smooth out the harsh index clicks of the 550 and 650 machines.

Maybe make the tool heads four holes so they can be snugged down with two Allen style cap screws for tighter OAL variation with one set of holes, or the owner can use the other set of holes with the pins if he wants.

Oh, whats with still using brass buttons for each caliber when others are just using a spring. one spring fits all calibers? what's up with that.

How about a square deal .223 die set or New Square Deal Press that can handle .223 and small rifle even if it requires special Square Deal die sets. Heck the LEE Pro 1000 does that.

How about a tool head that while it itself is removable, so are the individual dies like the Hornady LNL. man that would be nice. (one die clicks in for neck size or click in another die for FL size.)

Sure Dillon might have to design a new press or two.... Ummm I think it's called innovation or adapting to the market...something like that. Some how I don't think Dillon is just scraping by, but look at what happened to Star. No real changes over the years and their gone from the map (not the only reason, but it played a part). Don't think history can't be repeated. Think patent expiration and offshore manufacturers. On the home front don't tell me that XL650 sales haven't gone down since the entry of the LNL.

Ahemmm..:???:

Now, again I like my 3 machines. I just think there has been room for improvement for many years.

I know there are work arounds, but for the money should I have too? I just see other machines catching up and in someways surpassing old blue for cool features.

Come on Dillon show some advances or improvements in the machines right out of the box..
________


That was about it... :mrgreen:.. it's out of my system for now...

[Justin Appleseed]

I have 4 friends who have loaded on Dillon their whole lives, all also have the RCBS RC, they swear by them and will NOT change... I'm new to reloading and bought a used 650 after watching and learning a little about them from my friends. Never even set it up, sold it! After I read this...

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

Then decided that the Hornady LNL was everything I was looking for and some!!

I know everyone has there ideas on what they like/don't like.. Just like Glock vs. XDm ect. But I'm so impressed with how far ahead the LNL press is that I have no regrets!

It's so simple, fast, and easy to learn that even my wife has picked it up and is reloading her own ammo!

Sold Sold Sold!

[Rockchucker]

I personally like my 550b just the way it is, never had a single problem with it at all. I say different strokes for different folks. I do know some friends had some problems with the LNL primer set up, but small problems can happen with any progressive press. Good luck with your new press, I'm gonna keep mine and looking for a second 550b.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Not really a wanting press vs press thread... lol.. it'll happen, but....

What I really wanted, I guess, was more of a what would folks like Dillon to do if Dillon was going to upgrade the value of present presses or design a new press.

something like :

XL660 beomes the XL750 with our list of improvments

RL550b beomes the RL5500 with our list of improvments

Square Deal B beomes the Square Deal Super B with our list of improvments

or maybe a whole new press:

New Press we'll just call the "X" Press or Xpress
____________________

example:

If Dillon were working on a New Xpress I'd like to see......(fill in the blank)

example:

I'd like to see an XL750 with....(fill in the blank).... features


example:

If Dillon builds a Super B I would want it to (fill in the blank) and have that (fill in the blank) thing that big red, or green, or orange, or... has.

_______________

Mostly just a fun thread with some cool ideas.

__________
Justin Appleseed,

It was looking over a friends LNL that got me to thinking about what the heck is Old Blue doing?..just laying sprawled out on the porch panting heavy and drooling on himself. Time to get back in the hunt, or get off the porch and play. We may have to nudge Old Blue with a gentle shove of the shoe.. nowww go on, get.. lol.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Rockchucker,

Not saying they don't work, just saying after years of the same machines with the same little quirks. Isn't it about time to enhance them a bit so were not having to add tape for this, a tube for that, a bearing kit for something, and trim a spring for something else.

There good, but they can be better. The LNL could be better, but it's not as old as some of the Dillon designs. It was an upgrade or enhancement to the projection or something.. I'm not up on Hornaday, but they moved forward. Why not Dillon.

Now there has to be something that..if you could've got it, on your 550 right out of the box, would have been nice to have.

Perhaps a way to pin the tool head like you do now and another hole set to bolt down the tool head. It could be used for a tighter COAL. It may be ok as is for what you do, but wouldn't it be nice to know you could tighten it up with out home made shims or buying the down bolt kit.

Just a thought

thats more of what I was getting at.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

How about if the 5500 had five stations. One might not use them all, but they would be there in case they wanted to.

How about tool heads for the fictional XL750 and RL5550 being interchangeable.. now that would be nice.. Both with five stations, just the XL750 being an Auto index press and the RL5500 being manual indexing.

How about conversion plates fitting both models too.

[Moondawg]

I guess I have to agree with Rockchucker. I have been using my Dillion 550B since 1994. I am perfectly happy with the way it works and the pistol ammunition that it produces. It produces large quanities of adequate pistol ammo, in a short amount of time, and does it without a lot of bother or fuss. My 550B is simple, easy to use and reliable. It ain't broke and don't need fixen. If I need super precise ammo, I use my Redding or Harrell presses.

[Rockchucker]

I'd have to say an extra station on the 550b, but then why not just buy the 650. You're probably right, it's about time for some upgrades, and they do from time to time. I've accumulated enough conversion kits/tool heads and accessorizes for mine that starting over with something that's not compatible is totally out of the question for me. Hopefully when they do an upgrade on the Dillons, everything will interchange with each model. Just heard the iphone 5 will be coming out in the fall and they're putting a different plug on the chargers and accessories won't fit the 3's, 4's or 4s, go figuire.

[Shiloh]

Perfectly happy with my Dillon equipment. The gold standard of progressive presses IMO.

SHiloh

[Johnny_Cyclone]

I'd agree that for those that have invested heavily a change is not necessary.

Others may fear saying an improvement here or there might...Well, that might lead to Dillon creating something, and that might lead to some noob starting with a better machine than the 3 they have...Grrr so lets keep the line stagnate... we all know people like that.. lol.. not on here of course..

Those starting out and looking at their first progressive my not go Blue, because it lacks features that are standard on others, or that they don't drop primers on the floor and or they have more stations...or, or.. it just has some ease of use way of doing something.

I'm thinking that a 5 five die 550 would be in Dillon's favor from an inventory stand point too. one die head to rule them all.. lol makes more sense than a 4 die head 650. Plus if you moved up from a 550 you wouldn't have to change dies over to 650 the heads, or if you own a 650 and want to do quick run on your 550 you could just slide it in.

Square Deal owners are often making there own primer drop tubes.
That's such a no brainer for Dillon to incorporate that I don't see why they don't get with the new century.

Is it too much to ask for a Square Deal that can run .223 too

What if they could make primer size changes or powder hopper changes easier. Say, bolts with knurled knobs instead of cap screws.... just little stuff.

What if the XL650 linkage wouldn't hit the front of the table unless your table has a big overhanging lip on the front or having to use the Strong mount.

What if they all came standard with a more ergo handle..

Heck, a Model T will get you to and from work, but it looks like most drive an improved automobile.

I'm not saying that the 550 or xl650 aren't good machines..no way.. I'm just saying if you could change anything..no matter how small about them what would you like to see changed or added to.

What little things have you done to improve the experience.

Maybe just having a bigger loaded cartridge Arco Bin standard. Maybe having a mount to hold an Arco bin that holds boolits.

How about a bin that's not open on the front so it can hold more?

How about a shorter mounting shaft for the case feeder so it's no so high up in the air.

How about grease zerks.

There are improvements all over the web that folks have done. I'd just like to see them in one place...here... :)

[Kevin Rohrer]

Since the compact Star Reloader was the ancestor of the much larger Dillons, I would love to see them buy the rights to the Star and bring it back out.

[seagiant]

Hi Kevin,
I had 3 of the STAR progressives and I don't think they could be made in the US for less than the Dillon 1050's today!!!

[imashooter2]

Design stability is a feature that ensures parts are available for worn or broken machines for many years to come.

[Kevin Rohrer]

Seagiant: I won't disagree w/ you. It would just be nice if there was a progressive like the Star that didn't take up so much bench real estate.

I have a Phelps in .38Spl I am fond of, and may someday get a Star in .45ACP for sh**s and giggles. Will need to find bench space for it, though. :-(

[Johnny_Cyclone]

So... if Dillon were to introduce a new "x"press some would like it to be an exact replica of a Star Reloader?... sounds like an idea to me.

Could would we stray from the original enough that we might accept:

The use standard 7/8 dies? vs. Star specific dies?

Would we want the original style Star powder feed, or could have it use a Dillon powder feed with spring return instead of the safety rod.?... just keeping the supply train simple...
maybe size it so it can use the Dillon hopper tube?

Could we accept it using a Dillon primer magazine with low primer buzzer, or how about integrate a rotary primer feed like the XL650?

Roller handle?

Instead of having the big round base could it be made to mount to a Strong Mount and the rounds drop through?

How many parts would have to interchange with the original?

Do we want the press to be the rifle version, or will the standard pistol version do?

How many just want it to be a press made of Steel and Brass with no Plastic period?

I'm taking it we want this "x"press will be a manual, and not auto index?

[starreloader]

Hi Kevin,
I had 3 of the STAR progressives and I don't think they could be made in the US for less than the Dillon 1050's today!!!

The STAR Reloaders were and still are the finest pieces of reloading equipment made... I have 2 of the STAR Universals, both set up for 45 ACP... Also have 2 of the PHELPS Universals which I bought when Danny Flasco first put them out, both are set up for 38 Special loadings.. Both the STAR and Phelps are quality machines..

Yes, the DILLON Loaders are very good presses and I wouldn't give my 450, 550B or 650 up, all 3 DILLONS make good quality ammo...

In today's economic climate it would be almost impossible to offer a quality press like the STAR or PHELPS..

[dnotarianni]

Square deal may not have enough beef in the design for 223 sizing. I have been banging away on a square deal for 20+ years for pistol and the only change I would love would be a case feeder. No real knowlage of the 550 or 650.
dave

[Alvarez Kelly]

The Square Deal B has had an improved spent primer catch mechanism for a few years now. Gone is the swinging basket... It looks a lot like the 650 spent primer catch bin... because they are interchangable. It is also available as an upgrade from Dillon.

1 down.

Dillon has clearly stated they will not offer an easy to adjust knob for the powder measure bars. I believe it is a liability issue. They have plainly stated they WANT you to have to use a tool, so no one can "adjust" it for you without really meaning too. In other words, a youngster might just turn a nice blue knob, but wouldn't think to put a wrench on the nut to turn it. If you want easy to adjust, I sell the knobs for $1.50. Cheap upgrade for those that WANT it anyway.

2 down.

I type too slow to begin to address other issues.

I LIKE that my 1984 Dillon 450/550 parts will work on today's presses. And vice-versa.

[LUBEDUDE]

I'm also not sure about what you said about the reason for Star going out of business.

It was my understanding from folks that worked very closely with Star that they just finally got beat down by the city of San Diego with all of the Regulations and Codes for a Manufacturer there in the city. So they just closed down shop and sold off what they could.


I like your ideas Johnny. This is a good thread.

[LUBEDUDE]

AK- That makes perfect sense about the knobs. Very smart actually.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Another thing about why the good old companys are gone is that a lot of these companys were run by WWII vets and or people even before that! By the beginning of the 80"s they were ready for a well deserved retirement and there was no one to carry the ball anymore!

[pastor]

personally i think Dillon could make a few upgrades

i have a Hornady lnl and a 550b Dillon, the Hornady seems well-thought-out

what i would like to see in a redesign of the 550:

1. a better spent primer collection system from press to plastic jug(the little flimsy tin box can be a pain)

2. a 5 station tool head ( i currently use an rcbs lock out die) a 5th station would be great

3. a way of securing the tool head to eliminate the play

4. a better way of retaining the cases (lose the brass buttons) spring maybe???

5. an upgrade/redesign of the powder measure would be nice

6. a tool head machined out to accept the hornady lock-n-load bushings would be nice

with all that said, i really do like my 550 and would not get rid of it, even with all the upgrades i would like to see, it is still my favorite press

good thread, hope dillon is listening

[Justin Appleseed]

Not really a wanting press vs press thread... lol.. it'll happen, but....

What I really wanted, I guess, was more of a what would folks like Dillon to do if Dillon was going to upgrade the value of present presses or design a new press.

something like :

XL660 beomes the XL750 with our list of improvments

RL550b beomes the RL5500 with our list of improvments

Square Deal B beomes the Square Deal Super B with our list of improvments

or maybe a whole new press:

New Press we'll just call the "X" Press or Xpress
____________________

example:

If Dillon were working on a New Xpress I'd like to see......(fill in the blank)

example:

I'd like to see an XL750 with....(fill in the blank).... features


example:

If Dillon builds a Super B I would want it to (fill in the blank) and have that (fill in the blank) thing that big red, or green, or orange, or... has.

_______________

Mostly just a fun thread with some cool ideas.

__________
Justin Appleseed,

It was looking over a friends LNL that got me to thinking about what the heck is Old Blue doing?..just laying sprawled out on the porch panting heavy and drooling on himself. Time to get back in the hunt, or get off the porch and play. We may have to nudge Old Blue with a gentle shove of the shoe.. nowww go on, get.. lol.

I didn't do the "ammo plant" let's pound out 1000rd an hour idea..
I was sold on the ease of use and cleaning, set up, quick change dies, ect. I paid less than 500$ for the LNL w/one cal/die setup.. I wanted precise work on a progressive that a single stage offers... Lifetime Warranty, parts availability... I'm now set up for 7x19, 9x19, .38spl, .357sig, 44mag, .45acp, .223rem, and .308.. Less than 5 min to change over any caliber, I can leave all my dies in the bushings ready/set to go.. Even have two powder measures set up.. Changing the large/small primer is the most work! Oh and the spent primer tube disposer into the trash! WOOT! Ha! To each their own, I have less than 2 months reloading experience, but like you, don't understand how the LNL is so far ahead of the Big Blue! But I'm not dinging them either, I just like the "ideas" that the LNL offers over the competition, I have so many options vs. the next press, I'd like to see what Dillion can do/offer now that someone else has raised the bar! Oh and this sonic cleaner.. Whoa! I'm hooked on reloading, love every aspect of it, plus get to learn from all you guys who have "my envy" of years of this pure enjoyment, and total control of your weapons, and a whole new look at the world of firearms!

[dauntlessdave]

I got caught up in the L-N-L frenzy and ended up buying one new and acquiring another one used. Found them to be wonderful machines with some interesting advancements over my two 550's. I decided, though, after a year or so that the "quirkyness" of the machine was not my style and ended up selling both L-N-L's. Got to admit that some things about them were great but certainly not as steady or dependable as my 550's.

Can't say enough good things about my SDB's. Something about Dillon's dependability, simplicity, and world class customer service just can't be beat in my opinion.

There are some things that could be changed with both the 550's and SDB's that wouldn't hurt my feelings but as the saying goes.......why fix it if it ain't broke. To me my Dillon machines are like old pairs of comfortable shoes.......not flashy or particularly stylish, just plain comfortable and easy to live with.

[Dan Cash]

There was another thread going on Dillon, and I typed this out. Then I thought...no that would hijack the tread so I started this one..

I'm wondering how many Dillon owners feel the same.
________

I'm a Dillon owner and I like my machines.

However, I think after years of producing the same machines over and over Dillon needs to upgrade the XL650 used primer catch, do something about the XL650 slipper slide.

Create some kind of tube-to-bottle primer catch for the Square Deal press vs the swinging bucket.

Smooth out the harsh index clicks of the 550 and 650 machines.

Maybe make the tool heads four holes so they can be snugged down with two Allen style cap screws for tighter OAL variation with one set of holes, or the owner can use the other set of holes with the pins if he wants.

Oh, whats with still using brass buttons for each caliber when others are just using a spring. one spring fits all calibers? what's up with that.

How about a square deal .223 die set or New Square Deal Press that can handle .223 and small rifle even if it requires special Square Deal die sets. Heck the LEE Pro 1000 does that.

How about a tool head that while it itself is removable, so are the individual dies like the Hornady LNL. man that would be nice. (one die clicks in for neck size or click in another die for FL size.)

Sure Dillon might have to design a new press or two.... Ummm I think it's called innovation or adapting to the market...something like that. Some how I don't think Dillon is just scraping by, but look at what happened to Star. No real changes over the years and their gone from the map (not the only reason, but it played a part). Don't think history can't be repeated. Think patent expiration and offshore manufacturers. On the home front don't tell me that XL650 sales haven't gone down since the entry of the LNL.

Ahemmm..:???:

Now, again I like my 3 machines. I just think there has been room for improvement for many years.

I know there are work arounds, but for the money should I have too? I just see other machines catching up and in someways surpassing old blue for cool features.

Come on Dillon show some advances or improvements in the machines right out of the box..
________


That was about it... :mrgreen:.. it's out of my system for now...

A lot of what you recommend for improvement is counter productive for function and accuracy. However, if you are that much of an engineer, why not go to Dillon and hire on to show them how to do it? I am gald that I have my Dillon presses in current form before someone had a chance to "improve" them to the point they don't work. I even got a number of Dillon powder measures befor the lawyerly improvement and am quite happy.

[btroj]

Changes like hat, including a need to redesign the whole 550 line, would be expensive. New tooling for manufacture isn't cheap either. All new spare parts, manuals, etc.
Yeah, I don't see it happening. The cost increase could damage sales.

I just don't see a need for changing what works quite well. Dillon does a good job of advertising and sales must be doing fine.

[r1kk1]

If I were doing a wishful 550, I would like die spacing where I could use anybody's die rings. Die spacing is tight. A redesigned more positive priming system. A powder measure where the bars are easily changed and hopper drained while on the press. I would like an ambidextrous press where the lever is on the left side for the 15% of us.

I would like the BFR to load more than 50 BMG. I could see an adapter to go from 1-1/2" to 1" or 7/8" dies.

I wonder if Dillon actually pays attention to 3rd party solutions?

Take care

r1kk1

[Mike Kerr]

Why?

My Dillon 550's; 450's and 450's upgraded to one extent or another work just fine.
Square Deal presses and 650's worked well enough when I had them

Nothing is perfect but why mess with designs that have reloaded millions of rounds for years and years. Why oh Why, mess with viable and worthwhile equipment ?? We all know there are enough design problem and kinks in other brands without creating more problems than we solve with Dillon.

regards,

:-)

[Lloyd Smale]

sure they have some flaws but there still the best progressives money can buy and until there some real competition to them i doubt youll see any major changes. The lnls are decent pressess and the only real competition dillon has but to be honest they have more flaws then the dillons. Redesigning the press and adding things like low powder alarms roller handles ect cost money and dillion knows that many people will already buy a lnl because its cheaper. I think theyd lose more business then theyd gain buy making them better and having to charge more.

[Daddyfixit]

If I were doing a wishful 550, I would like die spacing where I could use anybody's die rings. Die spacing is tight. A redesigned more positive priming system. A powder measure where the bars are easily changed and hopper drained while on the press. I would like an ambidextrous press where the lever is on the left side for the 15% of us.

I would like the BFR to load more than 50 BMG. I could see an adapter to go from 1-1/2" to 1" or 7/8" dies.

I wonder if Dillon actually pays attention to 3rd party solutions?

Take care

r1kk1

This might fill the wish list for one of your needs?
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1347

[garym1a2]

I think people miss the point. If you have a 550B and a 650B and are so happy that you never buy another press than Dillon gets no more money from you. Yet if Dillon comes out with upgrades and calls it a 550C than many people with a 550B will add the 550C to their stock and Dillon sells many more presses!

[Springfield]

I bought the bin dam from Unique-tek, works great. I already bought some plastic knobs for the powder measures from the hardware store. I LIKE the brass buttons, never get out of spec, can't get bent. Tightening up the tool heads might make things more accurate, but then you would need to loosen up some extra set-screws everytime you removed the tool head, and this mod is already available from Unique-Tek anyway. I bought a couple but haven't bothered to use them yet. Don't really see anything wrong with the primer catch container, just lift it up, dump and put it back. I wouldn't mind a 5 station tool head but can't see how that would be a possible upgrade, not enough room. I have 2 550's, one 18 years old and one about 5 years, for large and small primers. Never had a LNL but have had 3 Square deals(hated them, mostly the auto index feature)and a LEE 1000(REALLY hated that plastic junk). The LEE reminded me how sturdy and simple the 550 really is.

[legend]

If you are not happy with dillon presses call mike or send your ideas to dillon.I bet you get a response.

i own a 550, love it and will never need anything else when i want to load a LOT of ammunition.
I also own ponsness warren,rcbs,c-h,etc they all have their place, and are used a lot in their niche.

tell dillon your thoughts,some might have merit.

[btroj]

I think people miss the point. If you have a 550B and a 650B and are so happy that you never buy another press than Dillon gets no more money from you. Yet if Dillon comes out with upgrades and calls it a 550C than many people with a 550B will add the 550C to their stock and Dillon sells many more presses!

And Dillon will be required to keep that many more parts on hand for warranty work or to sell.
They also need to totally redesign everything. Is isn't the auto industry where a new model is required each year.

Other than the spent primer handling I like all features of my 550 B.

I can guarantee that if Dillon felt it was economically viable and profitable to redesign the presses that they would. Dillon don't get to be the big dog on the back by being stupid.

[Alvarez Kelly]

I think people miss the point. If you have a 550B and a 650B and are so happy that you never buy another press than Dillon gets no more money from you. Yet if Dillon comes out with upgrades and calls it a 550C than many people with a 550B will add the 550C to their stock and Dillon sells many more presses!

I believe your logic is very short sighted.

I bought my Dillons precisely because others I knew were so happy with theirs... I got to use theirs first, and I was hooked. Later... folks who used one of my presses bought new Dillons for the same reason. They work.

[Johnny_Cyclone]

Let's change the direction here a bit..

I can do that as I'm the OP.. :rolleyes:

Let's make this more about what if you could have it exactly your way, not so much what is... if that sounds right?

Ok, ok.. Idea :idea:

Rather than using Dillon as a base line.
Let's just build our own reloader.

Maybe it would be easier for folks to imagine it this way... let's toss out the whole Dillon, LNL, etc.... and lets just say we lost all our equipment.... lets say there isn't a Dillon or any other manufacturer building reloading presses (some gov. act?) ...and there are no used presses anywhere... there are no pre existing parts anywhere... BUT... you have a permit for one loading press and it can be built with all the features you could ever want.... for what ever price you deem reasonable or just a within reach or whatever.... what features and little things would you want it to have.

I would think to make things simple we could use terms like:

I'd want a Dillon (model) like (thingy dobber)... with a LNL like (blah blah) and a LEE (do-hickey), but only if it has a RCBS (thing-a-ma-jig).. and in the end it should be resemble a Star reloader. oh, and paint it Orange... lol... with purple polka-dots to indicate its cast boolit friendly..:veryconfu

Maybe this way folks won't feel like anyone is picking on Dillon, or Horandy, or LEE or who ever.

I think we should we try that instead?

yes, yes I stared out the thread with modifing a Dillon, but that's what I have. It works, but it's not everything I dream of. So lets wipe the slate clean and build a press from scratch...not a Dillon, not a Hornady, not a RCBS.

I would say, that if at all possible try not to use a manufactures name when describing the feature you would like.. but if you have to,.. well then do what you gotta do.

Oh, and none of you smart alecs out there with posts about going on a black op to steal a machine, or blueprints. ;)

It's a thread drift, but I hope it can bring peace and unity to a divided people..:mrgreen:

let us continue :popcorn:

[Love Life]

I'll start it off. I would take an exact working replica of a Dillon RL550B (Dillon doesn't exist in this hypothetical super press right) for $20.00 shipped.

[warf73]

I think people miss the point. If you have a 550B and a 650B and are so happy that you never buy another press than Dillon gets no more money from you. Yet if Dillon comes out with upgrades and calls it a 550C than many people with a 550B will add the 550C to their stock and Dillon sells many more presses!

I think you might be missing the point. I was introduced to Dillion by a friend he had all his stuff, Dillion hadn't made any money from him in several years but..... when he showed me how easy the 550 ran and how easly I could get great quality ammo I bought one.
That sale was created by a friend NOT Dillion changeing something. A few years later I got a friend at work into reloading, then he stepped into progressive reloading he now has 2 550's. Another friend was over while we were setting up my buddys first 550 and a month later that friend bought a 550.

So word of mouth made 4 sales without Dillion making a change. That is what makes Dillion there money word of mouth from there happy customers....... not making changes every 5 years.

[btroj]

I would like a Dillon 550 B "replica" with a better spent primer handling system. And a lower price would be nice, if the quality remains the same.

Can't say if I would like systems like other progressives have, I don't own them. Why would I?

It isn't about "blue arrogance", it is about owning a press that just plain works. Every time, every day.

[Justin Appleseed]

All my friends load on Dillon, that's where I got my first experience was on a 550B, I wanted to step into the progressive but have the advantage of a single stage.. I tried several machines, Dillion, Hornady, Lee, & RCBS... You can argue the best, but until you use them for a period of time, or know someone who has, learn there advantage/disadvantage.. In all honesty I believe in wisdom. I have had Zero complaints with my LNL, just as my friends have with their 550's and 650's only complaints I've heard are on some Lee's, and everyone I know that has an RCBS RC will say its the best single stage press ever made. Here is one of the best reviews I've ever read on progressive re-loaders.

http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/firearms/9326-dillon-vs-lee-vs-hornady.html

[376Steyr]

My dream press would:

Be able to switch from semi-progressive (550 style) to full progressive with the flip of a lever
Catch ALL the primer residue when depriming
Have a primer detector to tell you when a primer isn't in the cup
Let you easily see the powder level in a charged case
Let you expand the case mouth (Lyman M-die style)as a separate operation from powder dropping
Be robust enough to small-base size fired military brass with ease

[Johnny_Cyclone]

....a primer detector to tell you when a primer isn't in the cup

Now were talkin'

[btroj]

I have a primer detector. Two in fact. Anything wrong with looking?

[376Steyr]

I have a primer detector. Two in fact. Anything wrong with looking?

The way I operate my 550, I can't easily see the primer in the cup. My first indication that a primer wasn't properly picked up is the punch crunching into the empty primer pocket. I'm thinking a ringing bell with a flashing light and a mild electric shock might be enough to stop me from finishing the primer upstroke.

[btroj]

Mild electric shock? I think something in 220V would work.

I have been very fortunate, I haven't had any problems with mine feeding primers. If it gets dirty and the primer bar gets jerky in movement it has toss them out of the cup.

A more positive spent primer handling system is my only wish. I find it mildly annoying but not worth griping about.

[garym1a2]

For about a primer feeder to load those tubes that costs less than $300. Or a case feeder for less than $250.

[Nanook]

One thing mentioned by Johnny Cyclone was already done by Dillon. I bought a new 550B in December, and it came with grease fittings on it.

My 13 year old 550B doesn't have them. I'm not sure when they were added exactly, but they exist right now.

Check out Unique Tek. He addresses the tool head wobble, and also has upgrades for the shellplate bolt. You can torque it down and it will still move easily. The tool head wobble is addressed by drilling and tapping the tool head and adding Helicoils allowing the tool head to be screwed down tightly to the press. Doesn't affect the press at all.

[PC Geek Shooter]

For about a primer feeder to load those tubes that costs less than $300. Or a case feeder for less than $250.
I agree !! However I'd say auto primer feed loader around $135 to $185 (if they can make it last as long as current Dillon one). A Bullet feeder for around $220 with plates for other sizes around $18-$28.


I got 2 defective LNL AP presses from Cabale's a couple months ago. I brought the 2nd one with me to another store that also sells them, wouldn't even sell me another die set to try out as he said it's factory defective like the first. I just couldn't fathom I'd get two in a row that were defective.

So I got a XL 650 and haven't had a line up problem at all.

Saying all that, I would like a 7 station auto indexing press that can be easily changed to a manual station one, even though I don't see myself using it manually, except for the bullet puller die. I also would like the toolhead to have the space like on the LNL AP, but add another 1 cm on each side of the die. The 650 toolhead is way, way too tight (it actually sucks how close they are, especially for how much a 2nd + ones cost). Also have die bushings like on the LNL AP, I noticed it moved up and I assumed the Dillon 650 wouldn't do that, well it also moves, so might as well have those awesome die bushings then. Even with the die bushings I'd still like the toolhead that can be taken out like the Dillon, best of both worlds, but with bolts that would hold the new too head in place and be much farther away than the current Dillon 650's.

I'd also like the spent primers to have a cup like on the 650 but with a hole in the bottom with a tube coming out where it can go into a bucket. It would also come with a plug on the bottom, so if you didn't want the tube you could just use it like the current 650 is setup. I'd keep the 650's case feeder system though, since you can still manually feed some in there (is it like 25-30?) with the tube that it comes with (or buy bigger one to mount to ceiling) then later on when you have the $220 to spend, get the electric case feeder.

The powder measures I'm not really familiar with as the 2 LNL's I got were screwed up in the first station and didn't even test out the powder funnel station. I did take them apart and degrease them though, but still didn't use them, but somewhat got to see how they worked. However the first LNL AP I did use the dies in the other stations and those were all perfectly fine though, just #1 was off (cases hitting in the back where you could NOT adjust anything, remember only left to right pawl adjustments on the LNL AP). After looking at them and all the reading I did over 6 months, I like the Hornady system better as you don't have that metal bar coming down off of the powder measure, another thing to take apart when changing calibers. Still thinking of getting the Hornady powder measure down the line so I don't have to mess with that metal bar and can also get the PowderFunnels Universal PTX (which bought and sold already). Also it should come with two micrometer inserts for both pistol and rifle, it should come with nice and easy to read colored numbers on them. Since someone said Dillon doesn't want it to be too easy to adjust the powder bars, then maybe you could make a micrometer with a key on the end and could lock it from being adjusted, but overkill, as nice colored numbers that stand out should be able to glance and make sure the numbers are what they should be. Depends if you have kids that come around or are going through a bad divorce whether you need to check them.

It would be nice to make the machine just as accurate as the current Dillon 650 apparently are, but cut down on some of the small parts. As opposed to the $78 for the Caliber Conversion Kits plus the Quick Change for $108, so a total of $186. Charge for the above like $100 to $110 for normal calibers and $150 for odd ones. Without new powder bar and toolhead then maybe like $30 for the Caliber Conversion kit. So you don't feel like, man another $230 and I could get a M&P Shield or something similar for how much I've spent on the (Dillon 650) full conversion kits (dies not included, since you have to buy those anyways). Of course having a BIG toolhead along with Die Bushings will give you more options to decide if you just want to buy a new toolhead with a new powder measure or just take out the die bushings and quickly install your new dies you already have set up in the other die bushings along with the Hornady Lock Rings (I really like these but the 650 toolhead is too damn close, so I'm only using one now). This would give you some good cheaper choices, the die bushings are very easy to work with, but you can still get a new toolhead and powder measure and have it all set up just right and no screwing around if you want to spend the extra $100 to $110.

The handle needs to be bent more so you don't have to move it so much. Similar to the Inline Fabrication ones for the LNL AP And Dillon ones they make. Also like someone said, the nut on the bottom end of the handle shouldn't be so close to the bolt that holds down the press. I ran into this and was a huge PITA.

I brought up the 7 station, as I think a 7 should be the minimum you'd go with if this could be your only one you could legally own with the OP above scenario in post #36 since most would like to do pistol and rifle. If the Dillon 1050 has 8, then there must be a reason for it. If it was a law where you could only buy one, then you'd probably go in with your friend or uncle on one (that's what I am doing with the 650). I'd assume the price of the press would be 25% to 50% more than they cost now.

With a 7 station you can use something like the RCBS Lock Out Die and it will take up one station and then a bullet feeder station, even if you don't buy a bullet feeder you can make homemade tubes for the time being. The 6th station would be if you want to have the bullet seating and crimping in their own die stations. Or maybe you only want a separate sizing station followed by a separate decapping station. Then I guess if you did the two above you'd want a 7 station one then. Which again a 7 would be minimum though, that way you if you combined most of them, like most of us do, then the 6th station could be used for bullet pulling. If you already are using all 6, then could easily take out the roll or taper crimp die since it has a quick change bushing for your bullet pulling die. Of course like someone said below, and I won't be doing rifle for awhile, is you'd want a swagging die station set up. Or maybe a station for the Dillon Case Trimmer or similar. Well then I guess with the above you'd need an 8 station then, but not with Dillon prices. The case trimmer in the die can not interfere with the other die stations, so they have to be farther apart. Saying that, and if it was a 8 station, then instead of the Dillon Quick Change toolhead and powder measure for $270 and the Caliber conversion for $118 to $198. The toolhead with all that extra spacing for an 8 would have to be more expensive than my original paragraphs above, but still for $150, then the caliber conversions from $45 to $85, since with the new system they will have streamlined and there's less need for so many parts like the current Dillons, more in line with the LNL, but a few more parts to make it perform like a Dillon.

Then again if it was a law where you could only have one with a permit, then I guess they'd only come out with a 7 station and 8 station one. A lot more people would go in together to purchase one, I guess if it was really hard to get a permit, then if they only made one, then it should be an 8 station one.

[traderpats]

Interesting. This ^ was pretty much the direction I was going to go when I got to the end of this thread. One more on my wish list: A built in swager ala S1050 but one that can be adjusted so that it's either in use or not so the additional station can be used without it if need be. Even if that feature added $100 to the overall price I'd still take it over a separate Super Swage since I could run it with a case feeder.....

[jmorris]

The Porsche 911 remained the same for decades because no one made a better "mouse trap". Dillons are the same for that reason and cost of parts that are replaced for free forever. The only machine they make that has has had major changes is the 1050, only because it is the only one that has only a 1 year warranty.

[jmorris]

The 650 primer tube hook up can be done with a drilled out 44 mag case. The rim fits under the stock bracket.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/primercup/IMG00069-20110424-1355.jpg


A similar "fix" can be done with the SD but I think they have changed the swinging bucket on new ones, mine are getting close to 30 years old.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/primercup/sdprime.jpg

[fatboy]

i like the 2, 550's i have and i like the fact that there are plenty of interchangeable parts all over i dont have to worry which make or model as long as it is a 550.

[GRid.1569]

The 650 primer tube hook up can be done with a drilled out 44 mag case. The rim fits under the stock bracket.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/primercup/IMG00069-20110424-1355.jpg

That's neat... I could do with that....

jmorris... how old is your 650... I understand from UniqueTek.com's web site there was a change circa 1997... I got mine well before then and the UniqueTek solution shouldn't work...

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/product/T1346

[HDS]

Out of that list of suggestions in the OP, the one that interests me the most is the Hornady feature where you quickly and easily can swap out dies. I could see uses for that for me when I load 44spl/44mag, just a quick change of the bullet seating and powder die to swap.

[jmorris]

jmorris... how old is your 650... I understand from UniqueTek.com's web site there was a change circa 1997... I got mine well before then and the UniqueTek solution shouldn't work... That one is not mine, I use the cups on my 650's. A friend wanted the tube and I told him about the 44 mag case, photo is of his machine.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Rule Number One: If it ain't broke, you can't fix it. Soooooooooooooo, just keep using and enjoying it until you figure out a way to break it. Then, pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix it.

BTW: what is the warranty on anybody but Dillon's product line? I am lined up with F-O-R-E-V-E-R, no BS or small print. That would be Blue.

The only change I would like to see is a graduated number set on the powder measure.

Rich
Sua Sponte

[GRid.1569]

The only change I would like to see is a graduated number set on the powder measure.


I swapped out the Dillon adjuster for the Uniquetek micrometer and like it very much...
there's maybe a cheaper alternative but I rather waste a few $'s (always cheaper than £'s) for something I've confidence in than something cheaper that might not work...

guess that's the "buy cheap, buy twice" thing....

[LUBEDUDE]

I swapped out the Dillon adjuster for the Uniquetek micrometer and like it very much...
there's maybe a cheaper alternative but I rather waste a few $'s (always cheaper than £'s) for something I've confidence in than something cheaper that might not work...

guess that's the "buy cheap, buy twice" thing....

I love the whole idea of the micrometer. In fact I bought 2 from Uniquetek.

The only problem is these old eyes can't read the darn thing. I have to get the big magnifying glass out to read it and then it's a pain trying to adjust, then look through the glass, adjust....... a real PIA.

For me a better system is the big Stainless Steel knobs with the big numbered graduations for reference on it. Same principle, easier to read and half the cost. Available on ebay. Be careful though, one or two guys sell them without the numbers on them. And that's what's handy for a reference.

[686]

Dillon has had many up grades to there reloading machines.
If you have a square deal b you can up grade it ,to a bl 550 , to a rl 550b, to a rl550 w/ casefeader, to xl 650 ,to xl 650 with casefeeder, to the super 1050.
The wheel has already been invented and it is blue. I have a 550 and i wish i had it when i use to commercial reload ammo. I used a star and a Ammo Loader .
I have about 200,000 rds loaded on my 550 now and there is not much that stands out i would change. Do put the alum. roller handle on it.

[Del-Ray]

Something you all may or may not know, is that Dillon will send you a ram head resetting gauge if you bought the press before they came with it. I bought my 650 when I was fresh out of high school, and they didn't have it then.

I was having problems with the press after taking it apart for cleaning, and called them. The rep asked me if I had re-set the ram top properly, and when I said Waaa?, she sent me (free) the proper gauge to do it.

And my press doesn't have the grease fittings either. "Nov 1998" is inked under it.

The only thing I'd change on the press is having to shoot all the ammo I make on it. I need to find a person willing to unload all my reloads for me, so I have more to do!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I wil add my .02 here as I feel as a machine designer that I have something valuable to add to this conversation.

This comes down to if it ain't broke you don't fix it.

If Dillon's sales had fallen off over the last year or so I think they might be looking at some changes, however they haven't, so don't hold your breath.

Second they have machines that are field proven to function correctly with a myriad of ********* pulling on the handle. That's a hard one to get past. They are nearly idiot proof.

From a business standpoint you never make a change to a product that is selling well unless you find in house or thru feedback that you have a problem. Then you fix it with the simplest most cost effective way you can and move on. Also you never significantly change a product unless you are being killed by the competition. And then you never do a quantum leap that leaves all the previous machines wihtout a source of parts. Better to evolve the machine and only change a few things that can be retrofitted to existing machines. There should be no planned obsolesence in reloading tools.

Did you know that the big 3 American auto makers (ford chevy dodge) all have 1/2 ton diesel trucks ready for production with 4cyl diesels. Have you seen one? I haven't, and I was told this by all three factories at SEMA 6 years ago! Some are even being built in other countries. Ford F150's with 4 cyl Cummins motors. Never see them here, but they make em in Brazil.

They are waiting until one or another takes the step to sell here and then the other 2 will respond. In other words there is no reason to bring the product out because what they already have is selling well.

This is also why you won't see a Ruger Gunsite Carbine in .223 or anyother caliber than .308. They are selling all they can make in .308,,,, Why change?

The Dillon machines, and I have most experience with SDB's are some of the best designed machines of any kind I have seen in my 35 years of being in the business of designing machines. They function very smoothly, and if you can wear one out you can rebuild it for either free or $20. All the wearing parts are delrin and are cheap.

All machines have idiocyncracies, but the Dillons have the least that I have seen.

Another confirmation is the number of satisfied customers you have for your product. I think Dillon probably has the edge here.

However at the end of the day it all comes down to what you personally like. This really could become a a Ford, Dodge, Chevy debate.

I would have to say that what the OP is actually talking about is designing his own machine with all the features on it that he thinks he wants. I think he should have at it.

I am not talking thru my **** here either. I wanted very specific things in my quest for the perfect Jeep.

I have gone so far as to actually build that Jeep from scratch, simply because I could not find a vehicle that had everything I wanted in that vehicle. I had to start from scratch and build what I want, the Way I want it.

I am sure of one thing. In the end I will get exactly what I thought I wanted..

That may or may not end up being exactly what I actually need.

As far as Dillon 'upgrades' Don't hold your breath. What they have works pretty well. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Randy

[Moondawg]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I like my early 1990s 550B just fine the way it is. The only improvement I would make would be to make it a little easier to lube the pivot pins for the ram and handle. But than I am not sure that is necessary because after well over a 100,000 rounds loaded, everything is still tight, no excess slop.

[LUBEDUDE]

Sounds like good common business sense to me.

Thanks for spelling it out so succinctly Randy.

[quasi]

The Porsche 911 remained the same for decades because no one made a better "mouse trap". Dillons are the same for that reason and cost of parts that are replaced for free forever. The only machine they make that has has had major changes is the 1050, only because it is the only one that has only a 1 year warranty.

How about the 450-550-550b?

free forever? Dillon could go bankrupt tomorrow and get taken over by some Bankers who sell the name to a factory in China. Or Remingtons parent corporation could buy out Dillon and turn it into another Marlin.

[r1kk1]

I understand what your saying quasi but the reloading aspect is just one of his many business ventures. The dude is loaded. Dillonaero is another company with private and military contracts, etc. I would hate to guess what his net worth is.

Incredibly diverse companies he has built over the years.

Take care

r1kk1

[W.R.Buchanan]

Those neato Dillon Miniguns? note the word Dillon? same guys that make the blue tools.

I would be willing to bet that a Dillon Minigun is $50K at least, and probably more. There are literally thousands of them in use.

I am not easily impressed when it comes to machines and machine design. I designed the Omniturn CNC lathe which is one of the best selling small Automated Turning Machines ever made, so I have a somewhat narrow view of these things.

Dillon's engineering has always impressed me profoundly. Their use of permanent mould castings for machines like the SDB, is so far above the competition it is silly. The fact that those machines can be worn out and completely rebuilt for $20 or free, is a true testiment to the genius that goes into designing and building a machine that will stand the test of time. Also I would bet that the net profit on one of those machines is way above 60-70%. That speaks volumes about the actual overall design.

There is plenty of good reloading machines on the market and everyone has it's good and bad points, I find the Dillon stuff tends to have less of the bad points than the majority of others and that is why I tend to promote them as much as I do. Simply put they sell more Progressive(or semi progressive) machines than all others combined with the exception of Lee. They didn't get that way by producing a poor product.

When you can appreciate the subtile nuances of a given design then you can appreciate what is actually setting that machine apart from others.

This is why Dillon is so special.

Randy

[quasi]

Well the Dillon 1050 is the best of their line, it is really an expanded and cheapend Star. The 1050 is the best progressive made, hands down.

If by "subtile nuances" you mean using Aluminum , zamak and plastic frames and parts I guess I don't appreciate what is actually setting their non 1050 presses apart from their competitors.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I am taliking SDB's here, The 1050 is by far the best progressive out there right now and watching them in action in Dawson Precision's loading room is the reason why. They can be automated easily and will actually stand up to the rigors of producing 1800 RPH day after day.

The use of permanent mold pressure castings for intricate parts on the SDB's that require minimal machining afterwards is one point.

The use of delrin bushings and sliders that virtually elimiate lube requirements and are super cheap to make but are still relatively high quality is another. Also cheap and easy to replace. Inexpensive does not necessarily mean cheap.

The use of nice aluminum castings for applications that don't require the strength of steel or cast iron.

This is the engineering I am talking about. Nothing wrong with using these materials as long as you use them in their proper places. If fact it is "preferrable" to use these materials in place of the others as they are perfectly serviceable , and cost effective.

Not every thing has to be made from steel and cast iron. Engineering is evolving and new materials are being used for things they were never used for before. Look at all the carbon fibre being used in race cars, and now the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner just released, is all composite. 20 years ago the whole plane was aluminum now it's all CF. Maybe CF is better? Boeing thinks so.

The grills on new Ford F250 pickups are "solid chrome plated Plastic" and they are lighter and more serviceable than any of the cheap pot metal grills from the past. They can take a small hit and not dent unlike pot metal, and if you have to replace one it is a lot less expensive than the metal ones that preceeded it. Looks better too!

Glocks are another example, and regardless of ones views on Glocks there are more in service than any other pistol in history. You can't argue with that type of success.

As far as Dillon is concerned,"You can't argue with that type of success!"

Randy

[quasi]

I have no experience with SDB's, I am sure they work much better than LEE's presses.

[Casting Timmy]

The two big reasons I went with a 550 are that is has a good resale and I got a good deal on mine. Although the real reason I went with the 550 is that it's been produced forever without changing! I don;t have to worry about finding used parts or conversion parts since they stopped making teh press.

I was really thinking going with RCBS's press first, but I didn't like the cost and I didn't feel that I could reliably find used conversion kits if they ever discontinued it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Timmy: this is the reason why outfits like Mercedes don't change a body style but every ten years or so. I makes the used ones hold their value.

Also, when you get something right there is no need to change it.

Change for the sake of change is a liberal concept that I totally disagree with.

Change for betterment can be a good thing as long as that change,,, IN fact,,, does produce a better product.

A change that produces an inferior product is idiotic and needs to be reversed as soon as possible.

You can make anything work in your head, if it doesn't work in the real world in is useless.

The liberal mind is full of ideas, however few actually work in the real world. Why we have to suffer with the continuous nonsense is beyond me. That all of their ideas seem to cut down on my freedom is why I dislike them so!

They don't know,,, that they don't know. This defines them as fools. Don't follow fools.

Randy

[dauntlessdave]

change for the sake of change is a liberal concept that i totally disagree with.


Randy




amen!

[captain awesome]

here's my 2 cents and it may not even be worth that;
I own a LNL, a 550, a lee 3 stage turret, and lee hand press, and 2 MEC shot shell re-loaders, I haven't done much with shot shells though.

I am currently planning on purchasing a Dillon 1050 to run 308, 223, and perhaps 30/06 through.

Here are my observations;



The Dillon 550;

I wish it had at least 1 more station (not Dillons fault, it was designed for 4, they have a different 5 stage press, I got the press for free, so I really shouldn't hold that against them.)

I can't stand the primer slide. It seems that a small ridge and stop for guidance for the slide to be in the EXACT right place would a tremendous improvement.

I have problems with primer feeding. I have never been able to pinpoint the cause, sometimes it double feeds sometimes nothing at all. This happens at least a couple times when ever I refill the primer tube.

I have issues with inconsistent powder charges with extruded powders.

I always forget which way the screw on the charge bar is supposed to turn to make a larger or smaller powder charge.

I don't like that in order to use the safety return on the powder measure it MUST be on station 2.

The stations are a little too close together and can be difficult to tighten the nuts at times because of this.

I don't like the Dillon case mouth expander/powder drop tubes for pistol calibers, but I am stuck using them unless I want to scrap the powder measure all together.

I don't like that it doesn't have an option to swage/uniform primer pockets.

I do like the method of retaining the shell plate. It works well and never comes loose.

I do like the way the manual indexing works. Never had a problem with it.

I have mixed feelings about the locator pins, They work well, never break but they are harder/slower to deal with than a spring loop IMO. And the pins are easy to loose though I haven't yet, (Knock on wood)

I REALLY like the shell ejector. Again, no problems EVER.

The used primer catch seems on the small side, though I have yet to have an issue with it.

Those are the good and bad that stand out on that press,



Here's the Hornady LNL;

I don't like the primer slide, though I think it is better than Dillons attempt. If one granule of powder gets in the grove it halt's every thing and has to be cleared. I always have a dental pick and a straw to clean/blow it out if necessary.

I do like that every time I raise the ram it feeds exactly one primer, every time until the hopper tube is empty.

The case ejector is lousy. I have rounds get caught in it entirely too often. It is very easily cleared, but it is irritating none the less.

The palls for auto indexing are cheap pot metal. they break or chip too easily causing the press to go out of time or become a single stage until they are adjusted or replaced. Usually this is caused by a surprise military crimped casing, getting caught up in the priming station. I have learned to watch out for it, but a friend recently broke the hell out of it because he didn't know any better. Hornady's warranty service is top notch BTW.

The primer slide is also made of cheap pot metal AKA MIM, and can be broken if you're not careful. gain, beware of crimped primer pockets.

The spent primer tube comes off easily and needs a hose clamp.

The powder measure I really like for the most part. It is very consistent. The one thing I would change is the inserts for the cylinder. Instead of requiring 2 cylinders, why not just design 2 inserts for the same rotor that can be changed out with the push of the button? And coming standard with micrometer readings would be a nice touch.

The base of the press where the priming punch connects needs a hard plate. Mine wore a dimple into it and got to the point where it no longer seated all the primers flush with the case head. I glued a steel washer in place there and haven't had a problem since.

With certain loads in certain straight wall cartridges, the indexing snaps into place too abruptly and causes a few granules of powder to slosh out of the case sometimes. It could stand to be smoothed out.

I wish they had a more secure way of holding the shell plate on. I have found it tends to loosen over time, and if over tightened it causes to much resistance to index properly.

It needs a primer pocket swage/uniformer.

I LOVE the Lock'n Load die bushings. That was a stroke of genius.



My Ideal press;

Has smooth auto indexing with robust hard steel forged palls that won't go out of time.

Has the powder measure like the LNL but with the inserts I mentioned marked as micrometers.

Has the Dillon style of shell plate retention.

Has a primer slide/system similar to the LNL but more robust (forged steel), with sharp square edges instead of round, and vents underneath for any spilled or loose powder granules to fall through to prevent hangups.

Has the LNL Die bushings or similar.

Has the shell ejector of the Dillon.

Has a primer pocket swager/uniformer.

Has a hard plate installed under the priming cup on the base of the press.

Spent primer tube clamped in place.

Case mouth expander/ powder drop tubes designed like the Lyman M dies, with an option to not expand in that step at all if desired.

Stations far enough apart to have adequate work space for tightening and loosening things.

Stations;

1)Case feed and Lube
2)Decap/resize and Primer pocket swage on the down stroke.
3)prime/case trim
4)debur case mouth
5)Expand case mouth/ powder charge
6)Powder cop/check or lock out die
7)Bullet feed/seat
8)Crimp

Don't know if all that is possible, but I would love a press with all those features.

[DCM]

Take a look her for some of the upgrades you are looking for
http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296
at least on of the members here makes some press upgrades also.

[captain awesome]

Yeah, I can't for the life of me remember who it was but I bought the LED light, the strong mount and the ergonomic roller handle for the LNL from someone who MFG's that stuff on here.

And I am very pleased with those upgrades.

[M-Tecs]

captain awesome

I had the same issues with my 550’s. I sold them and purchased a 650. I really like the 650 so I purchase a second than a third. I have one for small prime one for large primer and one for 45/70. To that I added a 1050 for 223 and a 1050 for 45acp & 308. I really realy like the 650’s but I love the 1050’s.

Dillon measures usually will have issues with inconsistent powder charges with extruded powders until you increase the taper in the powder tube and polish them.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=154783

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-equipment/61539-dillon-powder-measure-problem-opinions.html

http://reloaderchoice.com/showthread.php?t=76

http://www.uniquetek.com/site/696296/uploaded/20_Tips_for_Powder_Measure_Accuracy.pdf go to tip 15

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41727&st=0&p=476442&#entry476442

http://www.triggerctrl.com/articles/2016/3/23/dillon-upgrades-perfecting-the-xl650

[dsol]

I have an older Square Deal press from the '80's and it is great for pistol rounds. Changeover to other calibers takes a little more time and the primer system needs some adjustment but I wouldnt change much. Even propriatary dies dont bother me much, they are good quality and do the job well. I need a bouple more tool heads for the dies and allmost all would be good.

I wish it would work for 30 carbine though. That is the only caliber I reload that I cannot do on it. Dillon says the press cannot handle the pressure of sizing the tapered cases, but if they were lubed I think they would work fine. I wish someone could make a custom set of dies for it but I think they would cost as much as getting a used 450.

[dauntlessdave]

Some very good stuff there M-Tecs.........thanks.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Here is a solid reason Dillon needs to update:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166612

Regardless of what the cause is, the fact is, more than one primer detonated. The first primer might have been human error. The rest of the primers detonating was failure of design. A change in the design to one that separates the primer being seated from the primers being fed is in order.

One can argue the issue till one is blue in the face, but this is a clear example of a dated, less safe design.

[Alvarez Kelly]

Here is a solid reason Dillon needs to update:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166612

Regardless of what the cause is, the fact is, more than one primer detonated. The first primer might have been human error. The rest of the primers detonating was failure of design. A change in the design to one that separates the primer being seated from the primers being fed is in order.

One can argue the issue till one is blue in the face, but this is a clear example of a dated, less safe design.

With respect Dave, the primer being seated IS away from the others. The 650 uses a primer wheel. If a primer is smashed or gets under the wheel, it may be able to get back around to the other primers… but we may never know the actual cause of the detonation. I would think that it would “feel” different. As long as humans are involved with mechanical reloading devices, there will be human caused errors of some type. Usually they are just annoyances. Other times, they cause larger failures. Even if it is something as innocuous as forgetting to blow out the spent primer dust out of the press once in a while. If not done regularly, it can bind things up.

I love to reload, but my carpal tunnel won’t allow me to get the ammo I need without an efficient progressive. I was very glad to get away from manually priming off the press. My presses do what they were designed to do, but I have to do my part too. I inspect every piece of brass closely. I look especially hard at 45ACP for crimped or small primers. I blow debris off my press often. I know I wouldn’t have as much debris if I deprimed off the press, but I choose not to. I also take my time when I load. It is not a time to rush anything. I want to feel the primer going in. I generally know when something is amiss.

[DCM]

Here is a solid reason Dillon needs to update:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=166612

Regardless of what the cause is, the fact is, more than one primer detonated. The first primer might have been human error. The rest of the primers detonating was failure of design. A change in the design to one that separates the primer being seated from the primers being fed is in order.

One can argue the issue till one is blue in the face, but this is a clear example of a dated, less safe design.

You obviously haven't used a 650.
The primer being seated IS separate from the ones in the tube.
I have actually been using one for ~20 years without this issue ever.
Regardless of the make of the machine YOU the USER need tho pay close attention to EVERYTHING!
If it doesn't look, feel, sound or smell right STOP! Don't force it PERIOD!!

I have smashed primers stupidly but slowly without detonation.

I was not there to see what actually caused the detonation, but I doubt you were either.

[sig2009]

I have a 550 now and my next will be the 650. No need to buy anyone elses product!

[DCM]

Here are the upgrades one of our members sells.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=138195

[AZ Pete]

The Square Deal B has had an improved spent primer catch mechanism for a few years now. Gone is the swinging basket... It looks a lot like the 650 spent primer catch bin... because they are interchangable. It is also available as an upgrade from Dillon.


I was unaware of the Dillon upgrade, and made my own primer catcher, having dumped spent primers a couple of times. I have a Bonanza CoAx press with this type primer catch system, and have always thought it was the best, most positive and cleanest primer catch system that I have seen.

[Dan Cash]

Not really a wanting press vs press thread... lol.. it'll happen, but....

What I really wanted, I guess, was more of a what would folks like Dillon to do if Dillon was going to upgrade the value of present presses or design a new press.

something like :

XL660 beomes the XL750 with our list of improvments

RL550b beomes the RL5500 with our list of improvments

Square Deal B beomes the Square Deal Super B with our list of improvments

or maybe a whole new press:

New Press we'll just call the "X" Press or Xpress
____________________

example:

If Dillon were working on a New Xpress I'd like to see......(fill in the blank)

example:

I'd like to see an XL750 with....(fill in the blank).... features


example:

If Dillon builds a Super B I would want it to (fill in the blank) and have that (fill in the blank) thing that big red, or green, or orange, or... has.

_______________

Mostly just a fun thread with some cool ideas.

__________
Justin Appleseed,

It was looking over a friends LNL that got me to thinking about what the heck is Old Blue doing?..just laying sprawled out on the porch panting heavy and drooling on himself. Time to get back in the hunt, or get off the porch and play. We may have to nudge Old Blue with a gentle shove of the shoe.. nowww go on, get.. lol.


Some of us may not see your list of "improvements," as improvements. I will keep my 2 Dillon 550B presses as they are.

[harley6699]

I have a Dillon 550.. not the 550b but the orginal 550, it was with all of the bells and whistle that come with the current 550b.. when I bought my press they only had the square deal and the 550.. no 550 plain Jane, 650, 1050 or the Big Fifty.. no other manufactures were making a progressive like the Dillon.. Lee was trying but it was problematic from the begining.. I had been using an RCBS Rock Chucker for years before.. and I still do for my match grade rounds..

if I were to ask for upgrades I would like to see a different old primer catch system.. I saw and added a sheet of hobby brass to my catch container and now I don't have primers on the floor.. I like the upgrade to the powder alert system.. I don't like the new powder measure the way it is made.. I like the older method..

I have had issues over the years with different things with the DIllon 550 but I will tell you two reasons why I am happy with the Dillon.. Warranty and Tech Services.. I have had my 550 for over 30 years and it was acting a little old like me.. I called Dillon and they said send it in.. so I did.. in ten day it was back on my bench.. it looked brand new and was working like it did when I first bought it.. "No Charge".. over the years I have called the DIlloon about a couple of stripped out screws on the primer feed tube and the brass feed plate and without any questions they sent me a new one in the mail.. the tech guys have answered questions on different things that were both my fault and Dillons.. they fixed it..

I guess I could get rid of the Dillon and buy a cheaper one.. I bought mine for $359.00 in 1987 and if you look at the current price a 550b is only $439.95.. one thought, if you have to buy all new dies before you can load a single bullet then that is not the one for me but if you have 30 different dies all ready then I would recommend a Dillon.. bottom line is do you like a Ford, Chevy or Dodge.. they all have four wheels and the get you from point "A" to "B" safely.. it is your choice..

[USMC87]

I have a 550 b and can say only good about it, All my dies work with it, it don't take long to switch calibers and I can load alot of rounds as fast as needed.

[timtonya]

I own a 550 and love it. It'd be nice if someone designed an add on to the handle to make the shellplate autoadvance. Then you could have it manual or auto when wanted.

[jmorris]

You obviously haven't used a 650.
The primer being seated IS separate from the ones in the tube.
I have actually been using one for ~20 years without this issue ever.
Regardless of the make of the machine YOU the USER need tho pay close attention to EVERYTHING!
If it doesn't look, feel, sound or smell right STOP! Don't force it PERIOD!!

I have smashed primers stupidly but slowly without detonation.

I was not there to see what actually caused the detonation, but I doubt you were either.

While I haven't AD'ed a primer either I have seen someone light off an entire tube before. He was getting frustrated with a malfunctioning machine when it happened.

I'll second the "stop and don't force" comment.

[gbrown]

I've heard of AD'ed primers, but never have experienced one. I've crushed them, loaded 'em sideways and upside down. Perhaps just lucky. The "improvements" called for in the OP might be desired by some, but I don't see any need to "improve" upon tried and true machines that are reliable and quite productive if used correctly. I guess I have just lived too long as I am suspicious that "new and improved" is actually better than the original. Dillon sells a good product and it has a steady demand for that product. Unless someone comes up with something better and Dillon's sales decrease, I don't see them "improving" their designs. Why should they? I'm in their corner.

[Cosmiceyes]

When I bought my 550 back in the 80's I was given a Customer number of 4 digits starting with a 2.Since that time the 550 has grown,and is faster.I don't like to sit to long so about 200 rounds,and I take a break.
Back to your point of upgrading,all my parts are still working.Maybe it's engineered to last?
I reload everything from 32 auto to 375 H&H mag.I have a whole other head I change out for magnums so I don't have to change out bars in the powder measure.I like how inexpensive everything is.I know a Audi is a smooth riding new car with lots of sick stuff.I still drive my 1969 Chevy step-side with a 6 banger,and get there just as happy.
If you have the means to better engineer the equipment;get a patent;sell it to them.I've been using this machine for all these years,and still can't remember all the parts names.I remember the star group,but even then in the 70's the Dillon was way ahead of them.I guess they thought they were the only kids on the block,

[Lloyd Smale]

im with w.r. Why should they spend money redesigning presses that still are superior to the competition and probably outsell the 3 to 1. All that would do would be to make them more expensive as retooling cost money and who do you think would be paying. the fact they havent upgraded much since introduction years ago and are still the best out there is just a testimate to how well they were designed in the first place and how far ahead of there time they were.
I wil add my .02 here as I feel as a machine designer that I have something valuable to add to this conversation.

This comes down to if it ain't broke you don't fix it.

If Dillon's sales had fallen off over the last year or so I think they might be looking at some changes, however they haven't, so don't hold your breath.

Second they have machines that are field proven to function correctly with a myriad of ********* pulling on the handle. That's a hard one to get past. They are nearly idiot proof.

From a business standpoint you never make a change to a product that is selling well unless you find in house or thru feedback that you have a problem. Then you fix it with the simplest most cost effective way you can and move on. Also you never significantly change a product unless you are being killed by the competition. And then you never do a quantum leap that leaves all the previous machines wihtout a source of parts. Better to evolve the machine and only change a few things that can be retrofitted to existing machines. There should be no planned obsolesence in reloading tools.

Did you know that the big 3 American auto makers (ford chevy dodge) all have 1/2 ton diesel trucks ready for production with 4cyl diesels. Have you seen one? I haven't, and I was told this by all three factories at SEMA 6 years ago! Some are even being built in other countries. Ford F150's with 4 cyl Cummins motors. Never see them here, but they make em in Brazil.

They are waiting until one or another takes the step to sell here and then the other 2 will respond. In other words there is no reason to bring the product out because what they already have is selling well.

This is also why you won't see a Ruger Gunsite Carbine in .223 or anyother caliber than .308. They are selling all they can make in .308,,,, Why change?

The Dillon machines, and I have most experience with SDB's are some of the best designed machines of any kind I have seen in my 35 years of being in the business of designing machines. They function very smoothly, and if you can wear one out you can rebuild it for either free or $20. All the wearing parts are delrin and are cheap.

All machines have idiocyncracies, but the Dillons have the least that I have seen.

Another confirmation is the number of satisfied customers you have for your product. I think Dillon probably has the edge here.

However at the end of the day it all comes down to what you personally like. This really could become a a Ford, Dodge, Chevy debate.

I would have to say that what the OP is actually talking about is designing his own machine with all the features on it that he thinks he wants. I think he should have at it.

I am not talking thru my **** here either. I wanted very specific things in my quest for the perfect Jeep.

I have gone so far as to actually build that Jeep from scratch, simply because I could not find a vehicle that had everything I wanted in that vehicle. I had to start from scratch and build what I want, the Way I want it.

I am sure of one thing. In the end I will get exactly what I thought I wanted..

That may or may not end up being exactly what I actually need.

As far as Dillon 'upgrades' Don't hold your breath. What they have works pretty well. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Randy

[ROGER4314]

I had three RL450's, sold one then sold another. I kept one and bought an RL550 which I really liked.

The old RL450 started binding in a pivot bearing and sure enough, the pin and arm were ruined. I had to take the press apart anyway, so I ordered an RL550 press frame and rebuilt it as a 550. I got the auto powder and primer feeds, the center section was replaced for auto eject and I turned it into a 100% 550 press. Did I save any money? Probably not, but I learned about the entire press and there's not a single thing on the 550 that I can't fix! For the two presses, I have 11 changeover tool sets and they're not going anywhere.

The point to all of this is that Dillon products are well designed and the 550 press is a perfect example. There are a few things I'd like to change including having some room to tighten die lock rings. Mainly, though, I'd leave it alone!

I had an older model Square Deal with 4 changeover sets. I did the same thing to that press and brought it up to current specs. The work area of the SD is so tiny that my huge hands were not working well with the press. I sold it and it's now in constant use. Once again, the press was easy to upgrade. Incidentally, I did upgrade the spent primer basket. I like the new style much better.

Change Dillon presses? I'd leave well enough alone.

Flash

[Walstr]

Pastor; I used a center punch on the bottom of the 550 tool head 'splines' to upset the aluminum sufficient to remove 'vertical' play.

[Lloyd Smale]

this kind of got me fired up. I needed load some 38s up yesterday and figured instead of using the lnl id do it on the 550. Yes its a bit slower and more work without auto advance and a case feeder but i loaded two full coffee cans of 38s and never had a single bobble in the hole process.

[HDS]

On the primer catch thing, I too have a modified version of this system, in addition to that I felt it would be best if I filled the spent primer canister with oil (I actually used some Eds red that had no acetone in it) and the primers drop into this solution.

The point to all that is to minimize primer dust.

I've also gone back to the older style dillon powder measure that uses a spring instead of the clunky failsafe rod, I much prefer that setup, no clank and noise and a much smoother operation (and for me it made it more accurate).

[Capt. Methane]

here's my 2 cents and it may not even be worth that;
I own a LNL, a 550, a lee 3 stage turret, and lee hand press, and 2 MEC shot shell re-loaders, I haven't done much with shot shells though.

I am currently planning on purchasing a Dillon 1050 to run 308, 223, and perhaps 30/06 through.

Here are my observations;



The Dillon 550;
I always forget which way the screw on the charge bar is supposed to turn to make a larger or smaller powder charge.


Here's how to remember:

In-like tightening a bolt or screw-(clockwise looking at the head of the bolt) to increase powder volume, Out-like loosening a screw-(Counter clockwise) to decrease powder volume.

Or like the old Marvel-Schribler carbs that adjusted the idle fuel mixture with an air bleed "right for rich and left for lean"...

The 550b is a great machine for many reasons and is highly flexible and I really don't see anything on the market that is as well made for the same money. It just works and I love it!

[pergoman]

I have a 650 which has produced several hundred thousand beautiful rounds of numerous rifle and pistol caliber shells. I experienced a AD once and I can say with certainty that the first thing I did was check my hands and face for blood. Not a scratch! Sure, my ears rang for a few hours since I had just refilled the primer tube and had my face 18" away from 90 exploding primers. The plastic primer follower rod stuck into the ceiling insulation. The inner aluminum primer tube split dramatically but the outer steel tube contained the entire fireworks show. I have the whole pile of pieces still on my bench as a reminder of what can happen. Dillon quickly sent me a complete new assembly with instructions to never use the old parts again. I will follow that advice since the parts have been tested once and I don't want to find out if they can take a second detonation.
I know that the AD occured on the forward handle stroke but I don't believe I forced anything any differently than I have done a thousand times before when a primer pocket felt a little tight. I have been told that it might have been an issue with the primer dropping into the holed wheel rather than the one I was seating. I have also learned that the same thing happened to 2 other reloaders I know.