Hazmat fees

[Bad Water Bill]

Can any one explain to a dirty OLD man just what are these fees, what law authorized them or who profits by them?

I have checked fees and quantities from many different vendors and it is like shipping fees.

Order from one place I can and have ordered 40K primers for a $20,00 fee. Another only allows 5K per fee. The same thing with powder 5# from one dealer and at least 40# from another for the same hazmat fee. As competitive as businesses are today I can not see ANY business absorbing a difference of $60.00 hazmat fees on a single order of less than $400.00 including the hazmat fee.

My son mentioned the other day that if you order a first aid kit with IODINE in the kit there is a hazmat fee of $20.00 on that as well. How explosive is IODINE?

If this has been explained here before I have not seen it so that is why I asked.

And yes I have heard the story that back in the 70-80s a truck caught fire and exploded so the insurance is higher but for what is collected under hazmat label I think FED EX and UPS could buy a new fleet of trucks on these fees alone.

[Mike W1]

I never really checked but it's something the Feds stuck us with, not the shipping companies at fault here. Stuff still goes on the same trucks so you know it's just another excuse to "tax" us.



Can any one explain to a dirty OLD man just what are these fees, what law authorized them or who profits by them?

I have checked fees and quantities from many different vendors and it is like shipping fees.

Order from one place I can and have ordered 40K primers for a $20,00 fee. Another only allows 5K per fee. The same thing with powder 5# from one dealer and at least 40# from another for the same hazmat fee. As competitive as businesses are today I can not see ANY business absorbing a difference of $60.00 hazmat fees on a single order of less than $400.00 including the hazmat fee.

My son mentioned the other day that if you order a first aid kit with IODINE in the kit there is a hazmat fee of $20.00 on that as well. How explosive is IODINE?

If this has been explained here before I have not seen it so that is why I asked.

And yes I have heard the story that back in the 70-80s a truck caught fire and exploded so the insurance is higher but for what is collected under hazmat label I think FED EX and UPS could buy a new fleet of trucks on these fees alone.

[44man]

I worked for an airline until I retired. Hazmat was kept in a special place until shipped, no extra cost. Forms were made out, 5 extra minutes, free. We took training on how to load along with yearly training, no extra cost.
Shippers and not the seller started to charge. UPS was the first. They started to charge $10 for making out the form. Insurance jumped in by raising rates.
Shipping hazmat is not a danger if certain stuff is kept away from other stuff that can react if broken open. Other things could not go on a plane, only rail or truck.
Insurance went crazy and truckers had to charge more but some is just profit for them. It is a cash cow!
Guns must be shipped overnight air because guns in storage were being stolen. That is expensive.
I remember when stuff was lost between the terminal and gate. The carts were followed all the way and when at the gate stuff was missing?????
Crooks would open bags inside the airplane pits and steal stuff. The very worst thing to do is to touch a passengers belongings.
I handled gun cases with extreme care but others just tossed them.
All of this adds to your costs.
I am proud to say that I never added to your costs and actually reduced them. The person looking out the window as I loaded his bag was the most important person on earth.
Look at Federal primer boxes. They were changed because some went off from ham handed jerks.
Hazmat has gone too far, I lived with it every day

[btroj]

Two words- cash cow

[gray wolf]

Powder valley charges 27.50 as a fee. they state you can have up to 50 pounds
Mixed primers and powder in one order.
So is this a Fed. fee ? or lets make it up as we go along ?
For someone like me who can hardly afford a brick of primers or a can of powder,
The fee hurts a lot. If I want to drive to a store it's 80 miles round trip and the gas is about as much as the fee + the goods cost more.
So for me it's a loose, loose affair.

[Gtek]

44Man- Thanks for caring. Heading to MT. I was almost removed from a flight at a Dallas/FT Worth change. Looking out the window I saw my 3K worth of rifle FLY like a hay bale for about eight feet. I stood up and started raising my voice (good sheeple do not do this post 911). I collected names and made one sign, luckily case saved it. How about the $25 tacked on to handguns for overnight in which we the consumer pay. Because the BROWN and WHITE trucks cannot control their own thieves! On the primer/powder deal, shop around. Maybe the others will fall in. I do not know if it is because my birthdays start with a five now or what, but it sure seems everything is (NICE) MESSED UP! Gtek

[Jailer]

Guns must be shipped overnight air because guns in storage were being stolen. That is expensive.


What irks me most about this one is they have to be dropped in person at a depot and shipped overnight air, but when they come back to you from the manufacturer they come via ground shipping. ***?

[btroj]

Yes, it is funny that UPS charges us extra to ship guns overnight because they had their own employees stealing guns!
Only in America could we have a company charge customers to make up for employee theft.

[Wally]

IMHO with there Hazmat fees and the outrageous shipping costs to send a pistol....Big Brown chose an appropriate color for their corporate image

[Hardcast416taylor]

The brown boy`s that delivery at my home usually just throw, I`ve seen this happen, my packages onto my concrete garage apron and scoot. This applies to my medications, insulin for example, irregardless of weather or the word fragile on the box. I`ve called and complained about this behavoir to their company complaint line - "We`ll look into it" is the answer I get. Unless I actually must sign for something they don`t even ring my doorbell or a knock at the door about a package delivery.Robert

[44man]

What irks me most about this one is they have to be dropped in person at a depot and shipped overnight air, but when they come back to you from the manufacturer they come via ground shipping. ***?
Well, they can't land a plane in your yard! [smilie=1:

[44man]

Yes, it is funny that UPS charges us extra to ship guns overnight because they had their own employees stealing guns!
Only in America could we have a company charge customers to make up for employee theft.
It was not their employees, it was others. We handled UPS shipments before they ever had their own planes. I loaded tons of UPS shipments. Stuff was stored in terminals for the next flights. That is were theft happened. We had cages that were locked but some stations did not. High value shipments were locked up.
Small stations did not have it. Boxes might sit on the floor for days. Flight schedules for shipments. The amount that could be loaded with cargo held off.
To send a gun overnight is a nightmare. It gets very costly because something else must be left off.
I understand these things but I still do not understand the high hazmat fees.

[blackthorn]

Hazmat, Echo fees, etc. etc. are just another way to tax you (us)! While there may be SOME small group of products that are truly withun the "extra handling" relm, most are not.Further, with the so called Echo fee we often wind up paying tax on tax.

[btroj]

Having spoken to a 30 years employee of UPS it sounds to me like they had internal theft issues. Like one case where an employee was printing new ship labels to divert some boxes to a friends puse. Think of the old Gateway computer boxes, looked like a black and white cow, easy to identify what was in them and divert.
Makes me wonder how good the internal controls of the company are. I also wonder how computer technology has changed that and if they just kept the rules in place to increase profits.

No matter the rates, of we want to ship some things we can either pay and ship or not pay and not ship. There are few competitors so we don't have many options.

[Bad Water Bill]

I never really checked but it's something the Feds stuck us with, not the shipping companies at fault here. Stuff still goes on the same trucks so you know it's just another excuse to "tax" us.

No i do NOT believe it is a fed thing. If it was you would have a fixed amount of powder,primers etc that could be shipped per each fee(order).

Since as has been stated here there is NOT a set amount or a restriction on combining powder and primers one has to believe this is something the dealers are profiting on.

On the powder order I mentioned, The order was filled by 3 different warehouses and shipped on 3 different dates in 3 different packages by 3 different trucks.

The feds would be all over any dealer that did NOT give them all of the money they could possibly get their hands on.

Think like the IRS.

I have tried on line to find any REAL rules or regulations GOVERNING hazmat or the fees and drew a blank.

[ilcop22]

Data mine:

http://phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/regs/

In summation:

Fed charges registration fee for license to transport hazardous materials.
Company charges fee (i.e. service charge) for handling hazardous material under license.

Just like an FFL charges a transfer fee, companies charge fees for handling hazardous material.

[popper]

Like ilcop22 says, Fed makes the rules and companies charge what they want or need. The rules are for safety. Do business with companies that serve you best.

[Bad Water Bill]

If that is so wide open I can see the new headlines.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY THERE WILL BE A $20.00 HAZMAT FEE WHEN YOU PURCHASE GASOLINE, LIGHT BULBS FERTILIZER - fill in the blanks.

In the real world who keeps the fees the GOV or the dealer?

[ilcop22]

The government keeps the licensing fees, the dealer keeps the service charges.

[Bad Water Bill]

That is about what I thought.

The local gas station has to pay that fee and eat it up as with the other licenses.

Other businesses figured out a way to make money off of the license by calling an additional charge a HAZMAT FEE.

There is just to much difference in what dealers will ship under one fee to have any resemblance to a GOV rule or regulation. Another way to stick it to the reloaders.

By the way that IODINE thing came from a local paramedic. Every time your town orders medical supplies your property taxes go up because the dealer has found a way to make more money.

[tomme boy]

My local dealer told me he does not get charged Hazmat fees from the distributors he gets his primers an powder from. Only regular people get charged is what he told me.

[TheBigBang]

I avoid hazmat fees by buying from gunshows/local shops. I go to 1 quite large local gunshow twice per year, sometimes several smaller ones as well depending on time/need. There is a dealer at the large one & some of the smaller ones as well, who's prices are inline with the big mail order firms. He has a good selection & if there is something specific you want, you can just call him in advance, tell him what/how much/which show & he will bring it to the show & you pay no haz-mat fees (or even regular shipping)! Great way to stock up on powder & primers at the same "product prices" as the best mail order firms, WITHOUT getting "reamed" by the shippers. Also, there is a newer shop near me where the owner says she can get powder/primers from her distributor's truck with no haz-mat fees.

In the case of those companies that Bad Water Bill mentioned that only allow 5K primers or 5# of powder per haz-mat fee, either they are stupid, or, perhaps, they are getting KICK-BACKS on the fees. I don't see why THEY would want to impose an "artificial" limit on the ammount a customer can order UNLESS THEY THEMSELVES are profiting on the haz-mat fees - or they're just dumb.

[ilcop22]

That is about what I thought.

The local gas station has to pay that fee and eat it up as with the other licenses.

Other businesses figured out a way to make money off of the license by calling an additional charge a HAZMAT FEE.

There is just to much difference in what dealers will ship under one fee to have any resemblance to a GOV rule or regulation. Another way to stick it to the reloaders.

By the way that IODINE thing came from a local paramedic. Every time your town orders medical supplies your property taxes go up because the dealer has found a way to make more money.

I hear ya. I'm not advocating it, just giving a pragmatic response. I was wondering earlier today too how much extra - if anything - do shipping companies charge for hazmat?

[MikeS]

Don't you guys know it's unpatriotic to question HAZMAT fees? A good citizen would just pay the fee without asking any questions. Don't you guys know that the government knows what's best for you even more than you do! That's why New Yorkers can't buy a 'sugary' beverage in sizes larger than 16oz these days! What do you guys think, that we live in a free country?
:kidding:
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