The art of failure

[Kilroy08]

Well, this afternoon was quite frustrating. I got my very first mold in the mail and was off like a herd of turtles.

Casting wasn't too bad after the third hour when I transitioned from rejects to good bullets.

Lubing was what drove me to call it a day.

I made some bee's wax/parrafin/chassis grease lube that I was planning on pan lubing with the other day. It refused to stick in the grooves and made a mess. Out came the heat gun. And hour later of smokily melting lube off bullets, I decided to give straight liquid alox a shot. Heck, it was free, it did come with my sizing die.

Hmm, did I......? Yep, can't exactly put the extra back in the bottle now. This weekend's shooting session will look like the not so smokeless powder shoot.

I think I ran out of swear words about 2 hours ago.

Tomorrow is another day. I have plenty of lead to cast, and mineral spirits and JPW are on the shopping list for after work.

45/45/10 sparingly used looks like the ticket for right now. Experimenting will come later, I'm just getting started with casting.

[waksupi]

If you were water dropping the boolits,the lube will not stick until they are dry.

[Kilroy08]

As a matter of fact, I was water dropping. The heat gun will probably be deployed next time to ensure no damp or moist bullets

I did forget about the "OH Scheiße!" moment when I threw in a little too much parrafin to flux the lead. Unexpected fire does tend to raise the pucker factor.

[ilcop22]

That's why I expect the fire when I use parrafin to flux... Put on a good show for the neighbors!

[220swiftfn]

Well, this afternoon was quite frustrating. I got my very first mold in the mail and was off like a herd of turtles.

Casting wasn't too bad after the third hour when I transitioned from rejects to good bullets.

Lubing was what drove me to call it a day.

I made some bee's wax/parrafin/chassis grease lube that I was planning on pan lubing with the other day. It refused to stick in the grooves and made a mess. Out came the heat gun. And hour later of smokily melting lube off bullets, I decided to give straight liquid alox a shot. Heck, it was free, it did come with my sizing die.

Hmm, did I......? Yep, can't exactly put the extra back in the bottle now. This weekend's shooting session will look like the not so smokeless powder shoot.

I think I ran out of swear words about 2 hours ago.

Tomorrow is another day. I have plenty of lead to cast, and mineral spirits and JPW are on the shopping list for after work.

45/45/10 sparingly used looks like the ticket for right now. Experimenting will come later, I'm just getting started with casting.

Well there's your problem........

You're allowed to re-use swear words as often as necessary.......

Glad to be of help.




Dan

[MBTcustom]

You're not doing anything that we all haven't done before. Your'e just learning a lot faster than I did!
Just slow down (if that is possible) and think about each step. I get in a hurry with something new because I have all this new knowledge in my head, and my brain is going faster than my hands, but that's where mistakes are made.
I have a few suggestions that may help you.
Don't use paraffin to flux the pot. Sawdust is the very best flux on the planet, but if you just can't stand to use it and just have to throw some kind of nasty goo in your pot, go with bees wax. It worked better for me than paraffin before I discovered the wondrous virtues of sawdust. (by the way, your'e supposed to light it off. At least that way you can control it.)
Slug your barrel and make sure your sizing die is making your boolits .001-.002 oversize.
Look into FWFL sometime. Its the bomb.
Clean your mold with carb cleaner and make sure you get it up to temp before casting, and your success will go up. Cast fast and furious untill you get frosty boolits, then slow your roll until you get what you are after.
Don't squirt, spray, wipe, rub, burn, or smear anything into the cavities of your mold to "help the boolits fall out". If you get your temperatures right, it wont be a problem.
Hang in there buddy, it gets better!

[smoked turkey]

Yep, Goodsteel has called it. I have been at it for quite a while and I still have those casting sessions ever now and then. Though they do get to be fewer and further between after some experience. You are about to get the payoff when you shoot those beautiful boolits that you made.

[MtGun44]

I am absolutely amazed at all the newbies that insist on mixing some concoction from what
ever strikes their fancy and imagine that it will just be fine as a boolit lube.

I strongly recommend that new casters start out with NRA 50-50 or BAC or Javelina, or one
of the other standard lubes that are KNOWN to work well. After you have all the kinks
worked out in the process and are getting accuracy and no leading, THEN is the time to
go off and have fun experimenting with home-made lubes. You will then KNOW that any
issues are the lube's fault.

Bill

[geargnasher]

I am absolutely amazed at all the newbies that insist on mixing some concoction from what
ever strikes their fancy and imagine that it will just be fine as a boolit lube.

I strongly recommend that new casters start out with NRA 50-50 or BAC or Javelina, or one
of the other standard lubes that are KNOWN to work well. After you have all the kinks
worked out in the process and are getting accuracy and no leading, THEN is the time to
go off and have fun experimenting with home-made lubes. You will then KNOW that any
issues are the lube's fault.

Bill

:bigsmyl2: +1 on that, Bill.

There are quite a few threads in the lube section involving pan-friendly lubes and methods in particular. Some of our members have smokeless and black-powder pan-lube formulas and techniques down to a fine science.

If you want to know more than you ever wanted to about how lubes work and the challenges of making a good one, read the sticky "Extreme boolit lube, the Quest".

Gear

[Hang Fire]

I strongly recommend that new casters start out with NRA 50-50 or BAC or Javelina, or one
of the other standard lubes that are KNOWN to work well.
Bill

With heat in this part of AZ, IMO NRA 50/50 is pure BS. It separates out and the Alox leaks like Hades from the LS and then BW lube left in LS is no good. I could leave a tube of it lying on the bench and in one day the the dark Alox was separated and on the bottom leaking out the end caps.

Learned the hard way years ago when had some loads acting real weird. pulled the boolits and sure enough, the powder was clumped up with Alox. Set a cartridge and boolit lubed with NRA formula upright and some of the Alox leaks down into the powder, set them nose down and the Alox starts to creep out down onto the boolit nose.

With a little heat, I think Alox would make a primo penetrating oil.

[geargnasher]

Alox works best for what it was designed to do, rustproofing off-shore oil platforms.

After a fashion, it can be made into a somewhat decent lube. You need the real stuff, though, 2138F, which Wiljen has explained is basically Alox 350 and a percentage of microcrystalline wax. I think the microwax addition helps keep it from separating. Even then, the calcium soap in the Alox tends to foul the grooves after a while if you're shooting a gun and load accurate enough to notice it.

Lithium grease and beeswax has a higher temperature tolerance and doesn't weep like Alox can in the heat, but a lot of that depends on the quality and type of the oil in the grease.

Gear

[MBTcustom]

You didn't say what caliber you are shooting? We could help you head off more issues before they put you across the proverbial knee and teach you the hard way.
Ditch the homemade stuff. Go with some White label lubes (they can be contacted through e-mail) and pan lube in the traditional way. Be warned, 45/45/10 is awesome stuff, but you need to have a good grasp on boolit fit and function in order to realize its supreme awesomeness.
Should you use 45/45/10?
Have you ever slugged your barrel?
The answers match for both questions. yes for yes and no for no.

[Kilroy08]

Thank you for all the input.

I do believe I have been cured of my case of newbieitis. I shall stick to good, known lube recipes until I have a firm enough understanding to start trying things. My can of failure was tossed in the trash as soon as I realized it would not work.

Anyway, the point at which good bullets started coming out of the mold was when it was actually up to temperature. One item that was exacerbating the problem was my ladle. I re purposed an old kitchen ladle. It was stamped stainless. Fine for spaghetti and meatballs, not so much for pouring lead. As soon as I took a scoop, it started to cool. If I had the proper tool, it would retain enough heat to properly work with the molten lead. That oversight is on the "To be rectified" list.

Right now I am loading for 9mm and .357/.38. The High Power slugs at .355" and the Ruger is in the .357ish category if I remember right.

The mold I got in was the Lee .358 105 GR SWC mold and I ordered a .356" sizing die for various 9mm applications that I have.

As soon as I unboxed the mold, it got a healthy shot of 2+2 carb cleaner to remove any packaging gunk. I did hit it with Frankford Arsenal mold release. Not sure if it did any good or not, though. Sticking was a very minor issue, nothing my home made mold mallet (something I did get right) wouldn't fix with a very gentle tap.

It cracks me up how they want $15.00 for a mold mallet when my old hickory tool handle worked just fine. So what if the ball peen hammer head broke off right at the end of the handle, still plenty of solid wood to put to use for other purposes. The scrap and junk bin is free.

Next on the casting list is my FNP45. I'm curious to see how some 200 GR SWC's will do in it. With factory FMJ ammo, it's pretty darn accurate.

Oh, and I did recycle swear words. Even to the point of touching on some of the more, or less salient points of foreign languages. I think I ended up in some sort of Eastern European/Germanic obscenity hybrid. My little brother thought I was speaking in tongues and was about to call the minister.

[runfiverun]

when you can open the mold with a slight resistance to the push of your thumb after about a 4-5 second wait you'll know the mod is up to temp.
your casting ladle needs to be up to temp also.
you don't need the spray stuff unless you need to make the cavity's smaller.

[scb]

I gota go with goodsteel on this "Ditch the homemade stuff" - lube. It's hard enough starting out to just get good cast boolits. If you add in your own homemade lube and the things don't shoot worth a darn where's the problem, boolits or the lube? Making good lube can be just as hard if not harder than making good boolits. I would suggest getting a good off the shelf lube, getting you boolits to shoot the best you can, then if you want to make your own lube give it a try. This way at least you will know what your boolits are capable of and have a base point to work towards.

[Doc Highwall]

Kilroy08, you said the High Power slugs at .355" and you ordered a .356" sizing die for the 9mm.

My question is with your alloy what size does the .356" die actually size the bullet to?

Just because the die is marked .356" does not mean the bullets come out that size, you have to check it.

Different alloys through your sizing die will come out slightly different sizes and need to be measured so you will know what size they actually are.

[mdi]

I was talking to a youngster (in her mid 20s) yesterday about failures. I told her there is no such thing as failures, just learning experiences on how not to do something...

[ilcop22]

Lee Liquid Alox works for me. Second to that, Felix lube.

[runfiverun]

I was talking to a youngster (in her mid 20s) yesterday about failures. I told her there is no such thing as failures, just learning experiences on how not to do something...

quickest way to prove that is to start makng your own lube...

[turmech]

If you want to make your own lube (or at least mix it)a member on this site sells a kit (TAC )with instructions and all ingredients. It is what I started with and so far I have not found the need for anything else. He is listed in the vendor section (randyrat).

[Kilroy08]

Yes, this has been an exercise in how not to do things. I've got a real casting ladle and Lyman's 4th ed casting book on order.

The bullets are popping out of the size die right at .356"

I just need to fine tune my technique and I should be good to go.

Thank you for the advice and help.

[1Shirt]

Killroy, Suggest you listen to the advise give you by those on this web with numerous thousand threads to their names. They know what they are doing and will not point you in the wrong direction. Life is trial and error, and that also applies to casting, reloading, shooting, etc.etc.etc.
1Shirt!

[paul h]

Not failure, it's called a learning curve. You've made it a long way up the hill on your first session. I put in quite a few casting sessions before I started to be happy what I was able to produce. Then I got the point that I thought I really had this casting thing down.

Now after a bit of a hiatus and trying some different things, I'm being humbled again and realizing I still have alot to learn.

Learning is always a good thing, but not always a pleasant experience.

[geargnasher]

Right Paul, the minute you start thinking you have any of this figured out for sure your progress will platau. If you treat what you've learned and think you know as fact more as "suggestions" each time you sit down at the loading bench, you leave yourself open to greater success. Of course you also leave yourself open to more "failures", but along the lines of what you said, getting undesirable results will teach you more than the successes you can't fully explain.

Gear

[BadDaditood]

...getting undesirable results will teach you more than the successes you can't fully explain.

Gear

year 26 casting/reloading and i'm proud to say i've had my most spectacular *Epic Fail* just last month! [smilie=l:

thought i'd never finish pushing copper chore boys thru that barrel :oops:

however i used those hours of cogitation constructively, this month that particular challenge is pert near conquered[smilie=p:

...almost gave up several times, and definately would have if not for this forum. now i'm glad i didn't :drinks:

[grouch]

I know it's not a popular idea, but you can do as well as most if you just hand lube with your chassis grease. Just seat you bullets on the base band or gas check, smear the grease on with your fingers, seat the bullets to the final depth and wipe off the extra. Just be careful not to get exposed grease grooves down below the shoulder and be careful of spontaneous combustion with your oily rags or paper towels. Use the money saved on a lubrisizer to buy more molds.
Grouch