Usable accuracy

[lead chucker]

What do you guys consider usable accuracy? I like one inch at 100 yards but realistically 2 inch is probably good enough. When I look at a target with a 2 inch group it just isn't satisfying. If you are shooting off hand seems like there is a bigger margin for error if your groups are 2 inch or bigger. I'm not talking target shooting. I'm talking hunting. What is the biggest group you would settle for with hunting in mind shooting out to 150 yards.

[DrCaveman]

Depends on the animal.

Bigger bodies, bigger organs, bigger bullets will allow a little more fudge room. Opposite for groundhogs.

As for big hooved creatures, a gun capable of 1/2 MOL (minute of lung) will probably produce a quick kill. Being that it may be shot offhand and under the stress of a hunt, you don't want the gun or load to be the limiting factor. Your own body will likely be the biggest detriment.

If 2" groups aren't satisfying, move the target to 50 yds.

[ilcop22]

For out to 150 yards, 4 minutes of angle or less and I'm happy.

[geargnasher]

I think 2 MOA is plenty out to 200 yards for most meatgetting purposes. The paradox, for me at least, is that loads developed for peak accuracy usually aren't as effective on game as those designed for hunting due to alloy choices and boolit design. There is no free lunch, gotta make a decision about the job that's most important for the load and work toward that.

My "go to" hunting load for around here is a heavy, 30-caliber made a bit softer than is optimum for accuracy and going a bit faster than the "sweet spot" for tiny groups. It's a solid 1.5 MOA for ten quick shots in a row any day, any weather, provided I don't have "buck fever" or a bad case of the shakes from cold or too much coffee.

Gear

[Dthunter]

2MOA or a little more is fine.

When I see a 2" group at 100, it indeed is not satisfying. BUT, I have come to feel "confident" to use that degree of accuracy in my load.

There is no doubt in the world that 2MOA will put the boolet in the vitals out to 150'ish yards consistantly. I just have to be more choosey with my shot angles and placement. No big deal.

So much of life is about CONFIDENCE. I finally have enough of it to not hold me back!

[atr]

I think alot depends on the rifle and sights,,
my 340 in 30-30 is easily consistant 1.5x1.5 at 100 yds
while my Ruger #1 in 7x57 is always 1.0x1.0 or less at 100 yds....

for my deer hunting purposes 1.5x1.5 at 100 yds works just fine since I dont push the 30-30 past 150 yds.
for the 7x57 with cast I would got out to 200yds

[Rocky Raab]

Setting an arbitrary MOA standard is pointless. What counts are the size of the target and the range.

My definition of usable accuracy for decades now has been: A repeatable group that's half the size of the target at the range you are shooting. Half because that allows you to aim at the center and never have a shot stray outside the edges.

Moose at 50 yards requires an entirely different accuracy standard than ground squirrels at 100. Game animals versus vermin versus paper define the target as heart/lung area versus the whole animal versus the scoring circle.

It's that simple.

[PacMan]

Rocky covered it quite well but i will add.
If you are not getting wild uncallable fliers but good consistant groups, in theory, a 2in 100 yard gun should cleanly take a deer with 8in vital zone out to 300 + yards if you know your gun and load and you do your part.
The above 1.5 in group should be good to 400+yards.

[bigboredad]

Setting an arbitrary MOA standard is pointless. What counts are the size of the target and the range.

My definition of usable accuracy for decades now has been: A repeatable group that's half the size of the target at the range you are shooting. Half because that allows you to aim at the center and never have a shot stray outside the edges.

Moose at 50 yards requires an entirely different accuracy standard than ground squirrels at 100. Game animals versus vermin versus paper define the target as heart/lung area versus the whole animal versus the scoring circle.

It's that simple.

That is the most sensible and to the point I've heard on this topic in years

[dragon813gt]

Since I will never get a shot longer than 100 yards in the eastern part of PA where I hunt. An 8" pie plate is just fine for deer. Personally I like it to be a lot more accurate. But that isn't necessary. I do a lot more archery hunting so the standards change very quickly.


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[HARRYMPOPE]

1" per 25 yards is good enough for field and casual target shooting and easy to achieve .The always under MOA sporting cast guns(not real BR rifles) never seem to make it to the registered matches i shoot.

George

[mstarling]

<chuckle> Is always an interesting question. Best answer depends on the use of the rifle.

A 4 round group (2 left 2 right) from a 470 Nitro Express double rifle into 2" at 50 yards would be considered beyond expectations. Plenty good enough for Cape Buffalo at 50 yards or Elephant at 15.

For Elk a .338 Win Mag sighted at 300 and printing 2-3" is wonderful! Gives you minute of Elk to abt 375.

For general deer hunting best to know how a rifle prints ... I use a range that will give me a 4" group as the maximum distance for which I trust the rifle.

Yeah all that makes sense ... but I too use the 1 MOA as what I work toward. Kinda silly, but very real.

[geargnasher]

1" per 25 yards is good enough for field and casual target shooting and easy to achieve .The always under MOA sporting cast guns(not real BR rifles) never seem to make it to the registered matches i shoot.

George

Funny about that, isn't it?

Gear

[Rick Hodges]

Realistically 2.5 moa is enough on big game out to 300 yds. or so. I would like more. With a maximum range of 150 yds.....5 moa will do.

[gon2shoot]

I'm satisfied with any gun+load that shoots better than I can see.

[btroj]

If I can regularly hit what I am aiming at then it is accurate enough.

There isn't a single standard for all situations. If I am shooting at 200 yards then 200 yard accuracy matters. It I am only shooting a load to 25 yards why do I care what it does at 100 yards?

My deer rifle has a different standard than my squirrel rifle.

Ultimately, I make a guy decision. I either think it will work or I don't. Confidence is more important than anything. If I believe I can hit it then I can.

[303Guy]

'Knowing' that your rifle is 'accurate' makes one shoot accurately, I find. I like to shoot empty beer cans at varying distances. A hit is a kill and as long as I don't look too closely at the cans, I maintain my confidence. What's great with a can is it allows for rise and fall of the boolit. It helps getting the trajectory right by attempting to keep the hits in the centre region of the can. So MOC is kinda my requirement.

[felix]

Yep! Heck, I havn't even shot a group (for real) in 15 years or more. Use a BR gun for shotgun shells and adjust the accuracy needed by altering the distance. Same with pissolas and lever guns on beer cans. ... felix

[Bloodman14]

I started casting as a natural extension of reloading, as well. When .303 Brit. ammo began approaching a buck a round, I started reloading. One thing led to another...
My expectations for cast also match those for J's in my guns; two .303's and an SKS. I want to hit a man-sized target at the ranges normal for the rifle. Being ex-Army Infantry, that is how I think in terms of accurracy. Yes, having a tight group is a bonus, it also means I can hit at longer distances. Casting also satisfies the nerd-tinkerer-experimenter-"mad scientist" in me.
The advice I have received/given on this site has been the best. Thank You all for the encouragement and support. You are good people! I look forward to 'working' with you for a long time to come.

[Dthunter]

I was always taught to strive for your best,Not mediocraty. Any rifle not shooting under 2-3 MOA at 100 yards would never be included in my collection. And it sure as heck should never be given a "chance" to shoot past 50 yards at a game animal. I feel it would just be irresponsible.

Tell me, how can shooting a group half the size of a deers chest at 100 be even REMOTELY enjoyable? If its offhand maybe. If its from a rest, talk about spray and pray if you are shooting offhand at a any distance! WOW!

If you get a Boone and Crockett whitetail in your sights at 350 yards, what degree of accuracy are you going to want at that moment? You may never see a deer like that more than once in a lifetime.


Take care fellow shooters, and strive for the BEST you can do, not just "good enough".

[btroj]

Where I hunt deer I won't see him at 350 yards and if I did, I wouldn't shoot. I don't hunt with anything but cast and I don't load em fast enough to shoot that far.

Most of my shooting is offhand. I don't use a rest often at all. Good thing is I have confidence in ME in the field. I know what I can do with that rifle or handgun.

[Dthunter]

Rifle OR HANDGUN! Man I wish we could use handguns here!

[303Guy]

Good thing is I have confidence in ME in the field. Good point! That's quite an all encompassing state - something worth working on. I gained a lot of confidence shooting from a bench. I learned sight picture and trigger control and became so confident that I never missed, even off hand. Knowing what the particular rifle could do helped too and my rifles were pretty accurate, not tack drivers but 1.5 MOA and that could do a beer can at 150m. I know I've hit critters at 200m but I didn't try that often. I did limit my range to what seemed do-able - probably 160m or so for cat sized critters (which was all I was shooting then).

[btroj]

I frequently shoot can or steel spinners atvariuos ranges. The tells me about practical accuracy. It also makes me learn to shoot well from various field positions..
I do most of this with loads developed for hunting, not max accuracy.

[MBTcustom]

My 35remington that I built is capable of groups just over 1" at 100 yards with the rcbs 35-200-FN. However, I use a load that shoots about 4" at 100 yards for hunting. The boolit is the Lyman358318 250 grain GC RN. The reason I run this boolit is that because of the nose profile and the 14 twist barrel, it is barely stabilized as it is launched towards the game animal. You might think that is a bad thing, and so did I, but last year I killed two deer with it because it was all I had, and I noticed that it consistently tumbled upon impact. Boolit enters deer strait and exits sideways every time!!! This has a crippling effect on the deer that is highly desirable to me.

[felix]

That's why experienced eastern hunters like the 32-30 over the 30-30. Marginal twist works wonders on killing power. Guess thin skinned game is the name of the game for this philosophy to work as intended. ... felix

[DeanWinchester]

I've never been a nit-picker for extreme accuracy. If the rifle [AND ME!!] can hit a clay target on the 100 yard berm at the gunrange, that's good for me.

[fishnbob]

I don't think I can hit a clay target @ 100 yds with any of the rifles I cast for. A paper plate, probably. Needless to say, I'm not on top of my accuracy problem. Jacketed bullets, don't get in my sight.

[hydraulic]

The BPCR shoots I attend have 7 minute targets. A seven inch target at 100 yds sound like a sure thing, but we don't shoot closer than a 24" target at 350 yds., and that sure isn't a sure thing. Of course, this is shooting over cross sticks with iron sights, but I would be just tickled to death to keep 8 consectutive bullets in a 9 inch group at 300 yds. Don't shoot deer. Don't like to eat em, and I don't kill anything I don't want to eat or isn't ruining the rubarb patch.

[303Guy]

I've been losing confidence. I shot at a goat one day - easy target, I was sure it was in my sights, I even heard the solid hit and saw is jump in the scope, then it trotted off like nothing had happened! I tested the rifle at a clay bank with a spot on it at twice the distance and hit exactly on point of aim, so what went wrong? I kept questioning myself. That shows lack of confidence but the gun could not have been to blame. Anyway, I eventually figured out I did hit the critter where I aimed and hit the heart without breaking any bones. Critters do that - jump then just look at you and trot off. This one disappeared down a steep bank leaving it's mate standing there. Confidence is the name of the game.

[Wolfer]

I'm mostly a hunter so I really only find loads that are suitable for hunting very interesting. So when I practice I only shoot from field positions at various ranges. I'm only interested in how far the boolit lands from where I was aiming.
I'm talking big game here because I sometimes play with small game loads but while the boolit must land closer to the target the range is a lot shorter.
Where I deer hunt 50 yds is a pretty long shot and while I rarely take head shots any of my cast boolit guns are capable if I do my part.