Bullet Lube and the 454 Casull

[High Desert Hunter]

I recently purchased a Freedom Arms 454 Casull. I am finding that my low velocity low pressure loads shoot very accurately(Miha 270-SAA), but when I switch to the higher pressure loads (325gr WFNGC), the accuracy goes South. Loads at the same pressures with jacketed bullets shoot fine. I am just guessing, but I am thinking the high pressure of the 454 is beyond the capabilities of my current lube. I say the pressures, because I use this lube in my 45/70 at velocities over 1700fps with PB bullets and get no leading or loss of accuracy, but it is only operating at near 40K psi, not the near 60K that my 454 loads are developing. Just looking for some inputs here.

Dave

[bobthenailer]

For reduced velocity loads in the 454 Casull up to 1,300 fps , i use Magnma or Carnuba red , both hard lubes without GC installed . for over 1,400 fps i use LBT commercial , also a hard lube , with excellent results!
I havent tried the magnma or CR in loads over 1,300 fps as i have quite a few sticks of LBT left
I have the LBT 300 gr gc LFN and a Mountian mould 275 gr tc & a 260 gr gc LFN . for my reduced loads up to 1200 fps i use Tightgroup powder. with excellent accuracy from all of my FA 454 Casulls.

[Dennis Eugene]

Dave, I've got a box of some of the heavier bullets cast up and almost ready to send your way. Will get them in the mail before the weekend, I will also throw in a couple sticks of LBT blue lube,give it a try. Dennis

[High Desert Hunter]

Dennis,
This is becoming rather lopsided. I will make it a point to go to the next gunshow and search for some 338 bullets. If there is anything else you need, don't hesitate to call. I need to get in much better shape, would love to take a blacktail or a black bear in your neck of the woods.

[Tom W.]

Dennis sent me some 300 gr. cast for my .454 when I had one and they were the most accurate bullets that I've fired.
I also had a Lee mold that cast a 300 grain bullet that was almost as good. I lubed those that I cast with CR and a gas check. I don't remember what, if anything, Dennis had on his, but both were chronied in the 1750 fps area from my Encore, and were quite accurate.

[High Desert Hunter]

Thanks for the info Tom. I have some "J" word bullets loaded up to try this weekend, as well as some of the Mountain Mold 325s, and a box of 50 Miha 45-270SAA bullets from my newer 4 cavity mold. If nothing else, I am absolutely loving this 454 journey. I have wanted to be a handgun hunter with a revolver for a lot of years, I have a good feeling about this year.

[BRobertson]

I have had very good luck with LBT blue!!

I have used it for many years in .44mag, .454, .357
with little to no leading and very satisfactory accuracy!!

Bob

[randyrat]

Bullet lube is not the whole equation as you may well know....You are welcome to a sample of my TAC#1 It does hold up well to very demanding loads...just PM me

[High Desert Hunter]

Thanks Randy, I look forward to trying your TAC #1. The 454 needs a more high speed lube than what I have been using. I am having a lot of fun with the Freedom Arms.

[stubshaft]

I use LBT Blue Soft or Felix and have excellent accuracy and no leading with my loads. Which is usually 33.0gr 296 behind a 300gr LFN.

[onesonek]

I have no doubt lube come into play, but seems to me as pressure goes up, alloy needs to be changed also. May be not in all situatations, but would seem logical for some as well. Or am I wrong with those thoughts.
I do know, I have been using same the lube for Colt loads in my Enocre .454 barrel, as well as mid range loads listed for .454, and in the 45-70 as well. No issues to present, and that with the 45-45-10 lube.

[paul h]

What alloy are you using and are they heat treated i.e. water quenched? I'm also of the opinion that going to a harder alloy will likely help you more than switching lubes, but as much as I enjoy shooting cast bullets from big bore revolvers I'm willing to admit that at some point i.e. high pressure loads, jacketed bullets are really the superior projectile.

I've done a fair bit of load work on cast in revolvers and you can see groups tighten up, then open up as powder charges increase. I'll take a swag that you are simply over driving the cast bullets past their sweet spot. I think if you really want to maximize what you can do with the 454 and cast I'd go with a 360gr bullet and keep the velocity to 1200-1300 fps. Yes, this isn't the biggest baddest load you can shoot from a 454, but it'll go clear through most any NA game animal and accuracy is where it's at, not the highest speed on the chrony.

[High Desert Hunter]

I am using wtaer dropped bullets of a 75% WW and 25% chilled magnum shot. To date, I have not fired any of the full house loads that I used to shoot, mostly stuff in the 1300-1500fps arena. I didn't really buy the 454 for the top end loads, more for the accuracy, of all the cartridges I have been associated with in a handgun, the 454 is tops in accuracy, even better than my SS Bisley in 45 Colt. The lube I have been using was made with BP in mind, and BP velocities. Pretty sure a 280-325 grain bullet at modest 454 velocities will punch a hole clean through anything that North America has to offer.

[41mag]

I realize that every barrel is a case study of it's own, but thought I would toss this out your way.

I am running the Lee C452-300 RF, poured from my straight WW alloy they hit right in the 310gr range. When I started out with them I made up some Felix lube, with the thought that like you, it was going to need something to go with that extra pressure. Also since it came with the sizer I had the bottle of LLA, so I made up some of the 45/45/10 as well.

In testing the loads out I used some WC-297, AA-9, and 2400. All were loaded in Starline cases with Win-WSR's starting the show off. I loaded everything as identical as I could with 25 each of the AC and WC per box, of the same powders with charges ranging from start going up in half grain increments. For the boolits I poured up around 300, AC'ed half, and water quenched the other half. At that time I did not have a hardness tester, but could easily tell the difference in the two as I ran them through the sizer. (Since then, I have gotten the Cabine Tree tester and found they run in the 12-13 BHN range after sitting for three weeks.)

Test day was quite enlightening. In every load I tested, no matter the powder or lube, the WQ'ed shot wide groups of 3-5" at 25yds. The AC'ed, with the AA-9 and 297, both lubed with two shots of LLA turned in as close to 1 hole accuracy as I could manage shooting off hand. None of he loads I tried with 2400 that day produced anything worth even talking about. The revolver was cleaned between groups tested, to try and get as close a test as possible.

Here are a couple of the targets and you can judge for yourself, both were direct one lube and hardness against the other, comparisons.

Load with 297,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010248.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010249.jpg

Load with AA-9
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010245.jpg
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/Cast%20Boolit%20Loading%20and%20Shooting/P1010246.jpg

Since then I have not water dropped another one of them for the 454. Mine is the Raging Bull in 8.375" and I'm getting between 1550 up to around 1700 depending on the load. I much prefer the lower 1550 range and it has proven to be very accurate as well as a great performer on hogs. I had begun to try and work the velocity down a bit, but have gotten sidetracked with other things. To be honest though, other than simply being a bit less recoil, which really doesn't bother me, I haven't found a real need.

When I lube, I tumble once, size and seat the GC's, then lube again when done. To me it simply don't get much easier. The only other thing I do, which was recommended by one member here, is after cleaning, I run a patch dampened with the straight LLA or the 45/45/10 smeared across it, through my bore to sort of pre-condition it for the first shot. After that, I have easily run 200 rounds through with the only leading noted is a slight build up in the barrel ports.

Like I said, I know each bore is a critter in of it's self, but you might give the straight ACWW a try, it might surprise you.

[High Desert Hunter]

I will give air cooled a try. received Randy's TAC lube yesterday, so I will be cleaning out the RCBS Lubrisizer this weekend. I had good succes with my latest batch of lube, but today that was blown out of the water by adding 100fps, leaded badly the last 1.5" of the barrel, so now I will try Randy's, and maybe a few air cooled. The bullet I was using today is my favorite 45 caliber bullet, a Miha 4 Cav copy of the RCBS 45-270SAA bullet, they weigh in at 289gr from my alloy. Right now I am sizing them to .452, which I imagine is negating the whole water dropped business. I am also thinking of seeing whether or not they will chamber with an as cast bullet. Still in all, beats a good day at work.

[41mag]

I have the Miha 45-270, sa well but have yet to run any through the "Bull". I agree it is a great looking bollit for sure and I am hopeful it will do well. The only thing I am not sure about is the FB on it holding up, once it gets some pressure under it. The Lee's all have that GC to help absorb it. That said I HAVE run a few of the Lee 255 RF's through it with no issues, so who knows.

If you note some leading right off the bat, might try cleaning it out and then swabbing the bore with a touch of LLA. Might be just the initial dry bore round giving you fits like it was with mine. I know it made all the difference with the 300's.

Be sure to post up what you come up with as I am anxious to get to work on a load with thse as well. Right now though I am working on getting some alloy put together that will work for them in the 45 C, and with some others in my 41 and 44. I gotta get something together for this fall to take to the pigs...:bigsmyl2:

[High Desert Hunter]

I also have the RCBS version of that mold, and it has been my "benchmark" bullet for years, I have yet to find a pistol that doesn't shoot it well. I even shot them from my old Super Redhawk 454 at velocities over 1600fps with laser beam accuracy. In my 45 Colts, they give 1 1/2" accuracy every time when I do my part. I will indeed continue to post, even as frustrating as it can be, it still beats work.