Question on an old family rifle

[Deliverator]

Not entirely 100% sure what this is. I was told it is a WWI era Mauser action that was re-chambered in .30-06 and sporterized.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/The_Deliverator/DSCN3335.jpg

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/The_Deliverator/DSCN3334.jpg

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/The_Deliverator/DSCN3330.jpg

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/The_Deliverator/DSCN3327.jpg

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/The_Deliverator/DSCN3332.jpg



So my first question is, is this a mauser action? Is it WWI era? What do the markings that surprisingly came out pretty well in the photograph mean?. Looks like a symbol followed by N 18,356r. and there is a little crown above the N.

Next, does anyone know a good place to get a replacement nose cap for this type of rifle and stock? Took it out shooting a couple years back and when I got home I noticed the cap came off and I haven't been able to find it anywhere or a replacement.

[Jim]

No clue about the numbers, but that appears to be a Mauser action.

[Multigunner]

You might try a company that supplies metal nose caps for Kentucky rifles. Perhaps Dixie Arms.
The screw hole on the underside looks familar. I've seen this sort of attachment point on some muzzle loader kit rifles.

If you can't find a nose cap that will fit, I've seen missing nose caps replaced by molding plastic in its place and shaping to the desired contour. A white nose cap can be very striking.
Other colors might work out fine as well.
Accraglass gel with the included stains is an option.

PS
If you used a sleeve type gun case look in the toe of the case. I remember someone losing a nose cap and finding it there months later.

[gew98]

The side of the receiver shows pre WW2 commercial ( german ) proofs. It is either a salvaged gew98 turned into a sporter by any one of a number of german smiths of the day then , or a new made action then for commercial sale. The Iron sights though do not look european. Quality of these between the wars rifles can vary from not so pretty to stunning.
You should slug the bore for if it is still a 7,9 caliber it may very well have the .318 bore and not the .323 bore ...it will make a difference.

[dpaultx]

Gotta agree with gew98. The stripper clip guide at the top of the rear bridge and the thumb cut in the left receiver wall identify the action as being a military model 98 receiver, but the markings on the left side of the front receiver ring are commercial, not military, proof marks.

The commercial Crown over "N" proof mark means the rifle was proofed using smokeless (nitro) powder and the "St.M.G." over "18,55" means it was proofed with a steel jacketed bullet (Stahl Mantel Geschoss) that weighed 18.55 grams. As the stampings do not indicate the powder weight in the proof charge, this means the marking was applied sometime after 1912 and prior to 1934 when the Crown "N" was discontinued.

If there are no actual Mauser or FN markings on the gun it either means they that were removed by the person who did the custom work, or that the original receiver was sold "in the white", by Mauser, to one of the many "guild" gunsmithing shops around Germany in the early 1900's. A "guild" rifle would have been marked by the actual builder, but many times these makers marks were applied to the barrels, not the receivers, and would have been lost when this rifle was re-barreled.

Replacing that lost muzzle cap will be tough as it was probably a silver-soldered two piece cap, custom made by the original smith, and will have to similarly duplicated.

Is the thumb safety missing from the bolt shroud? You might want to look into that first thing.

[waksupi]

Brownell's sell a Mannlicher type nose cap. As to whether it will be a direct replacement, who know? They are not hard to make.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`d try Brownell`s about getting a nose cap. They supply a lot of parts like this. I`m assuming since you have fired this rifle with .30-06 ammo, and there was no problems, that this is indeed a .30-06. It is indeed a Mauser that is both a pre WW 2 model and yet is a large ring post WW 1 model which could make it a 98/09 model. The trigger and cartridge follower look to be stock miltary issue. I`d be putting a dab or 2 of oil on those rust areas shown in the pics.Robert

[swheeler]

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/695187/necg-mannlicher-style-forend-cap-610-blue

[gew98]

.55 grams. this means the marking was applied sometime after 1912 and prior to 1934 when the Crown "N" was discontinued.
.

Only disagreement I have is that the Crown N survived until 1940 , where it was then replaced by the Eagle N proof.

[dpaultx]

Of course your correct gew98, that the Crown-over-N proof mark did continue in use up until 1939, when it was supplanted by the Eagle N proof, but I believe that the full proof load designation (i.e. the "St.M.G." over "xx,xx") part of the proof mark was dropped in 1934 when Mauser and Sauer started producing rifles strictly for the Wehrmacht.

From my understanding, there were no true "commercial" Mausers made after 1934 that used the full "commercial" proof mark with the full proof load designation. I could well be mistaken about this, but that's the way I have always understood it.

All good . . . Doug

[Hang Fire]

Me. I would just pour a pewter (high tin content lead) nose cap.

I have done several for muzzleloading rifles and they are easy to do with final shaping finished out with files and abrasive paper.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=pouring+a+pewter+nose+cap&oq=pouring+a+pwter+nose+cap&aq=0lK&aqi=g-lK1&aql=&gs_l=serp.1.0.0i13i30.17304676.17318671.0.17322108 .25.25.0.0.0.1.847.9108.2-8j8j5j2j1.24.0...0.0.Fra4qqPmitU&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7de856a6202a330a&biw=905&bih=511

[gew98]

Of course your correct gew98, that the Crown-over-N proof mark did continue in use up until 1939, when it was supplanted by the Eagle N proof, but I believe that the full proof load designation (i.e. the "St.M.G." over "xx,xx") part of the proof mark was dropped in 1934 when Mauser and Sauer started producing rifles strictly for the Wehrmacht.

From my understanding, there were no true "commercial" Mausers made after 1934 that used the full "commercial" proof mark with the full proof load designation. I could well be mistaken about this, but that's the way I have always understood it.

All good . . . Doug

Doug , I have owned several SS rifles that were commercially rebuilt for the SS and all followed the "crown N" proofing , with several that followed the Eagle N . All the crown N proofed had the st.M.G. proofing along with assemnly date and caliber on bottom of the barrel..... to include those with eagle N proof up until very early 1942 at which point the SS managed a political coupe and got standard small arms directly from Heer stores after that.

[Deliverator]

As far as I know this rifle never had a thumb safety. Just the switch on the back of the bolt.

What did you want more pictures of?

[Dan Cash]

Just sell it to me and forget about all this what if stuff.
Dan

[220swiftfn]

Hmmm...... Weren't the model B's and M's made with the butterknife bolts???? (Asking because it LOOKS like there's a stamp on the underside of the bolt root, that would usually get "scrubbed" out after a bolt mod......)


Dan

[frkelly74]

Pretty

[JIMinPHX]

Is the barrel stamped 30-06? If not, did you cast the chamber to be sure that .30-06 is really what you have? Those guns have been re-barreled to all sorts of different calibers over the years.

That's a nice looking example of a 98 sporter. If I ran into something that looked like that at a gun show, it would probably follow me home.

[dpaultx]

All the crown N proofed had the st.M.G. proofing along with assemnly date and caliber on bottom of the barrel.....

I'm sure you're correct gew98, many war era Mausers present so many variations, and exceptions, that positive identification is often difficult, if not impossible, even in examples that have never been modified or reworked.

Too bad all we have is the receiver proof mark, and not the markings from the original barrel, which, from the proof bullet weight of 18.55 Grams (286 grains), was almost certainly in 9.3mm. Probably, this rifle was originally chambered for the 9.3×62mm cartridge which would have made for a far more interesting piece than the 30-06. At least IMHO.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/88754fdf330ac6aab.jpg

All good . . . Doug

[pietro]

FWIW, it was once common practice in the US for a captured 8mm German Mauser rifle to be simply rechambered with a .30-06 reamer, using the attached military 8mm (8x57) barrel, simply because at the time (just after WWII) ammo for it would have been unobtainium.

Some just shot .30-06's through the 8mm bore (very inaccurate); others did the same to fireform 8mm-06 brass and load cast boolits
The idea was to shoot their war trophy, whatever the method.

Check the barrel contour - if it's the stepped military barrel, the chances are high that it's still the issue 8mm barrel - and a chamber cast will tell the tale of whether or not it's still 8x57 or 8mm-06.

If the barrel's smooth outside - it still may be the military bbl, just filed/turned smooth - slug the bore.

I like the rifle - being a sucker for full-length stocked rifles.

.

[MtGun44]

Beautiful wood. Definitely a military Mauser 98 action. Nicely reworked bolt handle, too.

Bill

[Deliverator]

I had a gunsmith inspect it, it is definitely .30-06. I have also fired it, it is DAMN accurate even with the buckhorn sights. punched the 10 ring at 150~yds

Though that checkered steel buttplate does not make my shoulder happy on the inside... or the outside...

[KCSO]

Sights checkering and stock work all look to be American work, the action and the engraving loo to be germanic guild work from what I can see of it. I would guess it was a guild rifle that has been restocked. The proof would be in the inletting.