Super Blackhawk vs Bisley

[McKenzie]

Last weekend, I was looking at Ruger single actions in 45LC at the gun show. The Super Blackhawks had a very short grip. I was only able to get about two and a half fingers around it. The Bisleys had a longer grip and fit my hand much better. I can't be the only ham handed shooter that wanted a single action.

What do you folks advise about the grip size of the various Rugers? Would the smaller grip cause control problems? Is recoil less of a problem with the larger grip? I'd have grabbed one of the Bisleys, but they all had longer barrels than I want. I think that I could be happy with either weapon, but worry about the grip size. What to do?

Thanks

[Abert Rim]

McKenzie: That would have been a Blackhawk, not a Super Blackhawk, in .45 Colt. i prefer the smaller grip myself, but I have medium-large palms and short fingers. Some folks just love the Bisley grip, and if it fits you well, buy one an have the barrel bobbed to your liking.

[lawboy]

I have both bisley and SBH. Both fit fine but I prefer the feel and recoil characteristics of the bisley when shooting full power loads. The Blackhawk grip frame is too small for my mitts. I do no like it.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Boy, if you have big hands, listen carefully: DO NOT GO ANYWHERE NEAR BISLEYS!!! THEY BITE, BIG TIME!!!!

I had one in 44Mag and it cut me up bad. I wouldn't give up on it for awhile and ended up with the base of my thumb crisscrossed with small scars, that sucker drew blood everytime with full power loads. They chop you up under the thumb as well with the high, squared off grip frame. Bad news all round.

The small grips are not the best, but just hang on tight, they work without cutting you up. The old square trigger guard dragoon style blackhawk is the best for big fellas, it's a pity it looks like sin.

[Lloyd Smale]

Im just the opposite and have big hands. The most comfortable grip for me hands down is a bisley with heavy recoil. The standard blackhawk grip would come in second but a distant second. The old xr3s dont have enough room in them for me and the super blackhawk with the squared (draggon) trigger guard are the worse. Ive had my middle nuckle operated on for bone spurs twice from being beat by those supers and wont own one anymore with the square trigger guard. It would be nice of ruger would combine the longer grip frame of the super with with a little more room and a round trigger guard. IT would be fine for anything but the stoutest loads. The last linebaugh seminar i went to i had just come from the second surjery on my nuckle and still had stitches from the operation. In three days there I shot probably 500 .475s and .500s and even kelly brosts 458 lott encore with no trouble. I guess everyone has there preferences and it probably is due to the fact that everyone grips a tad differntly but personaly id like to put a boot out the but of whoever designed that dragoon grip frame. Thankfully they now make the supers with the standard grip frame and there easy to swap if nothing else. But to me nothing is as comfortable as a ruger bisley and probably because ive shot more of them then any other gun there is nothing that feels as good in the hand and naturally puts the sights on the target for me. Theres good reason why linebaugh and bowen and clements only make there .500s and 475s on bisley frames.

[RugerFan]

I currently have a Bisley Hunter and a BH. I have also owned Super BHs in the past. I definitely prefer the Bisley grip. It doesn't bite me at all like Mick suggested. With the BH and SBH I put a Hogue grip on them which fit my hand better.

[lovedogs]

Can't offer any opinion on the Bisley because I've never shot one but I can mention something called aftermarket grips. With the newer Blackhawk-style frames they are small enough you can probably get almost anything in an aftermarket grip to suit you. Some like the rubber Pachmayr. Some like Hogue's. Or, if you really want fit, you can go with custom Herrett's or make your own. You can make the grip longer to accomodate your mitts. I find letting my little finger hang off the grip, actually it's sort of up under the butt, works well. It feels funny to begin with but does also help in controlling recoil and works for many. If you try Herrett's you'll see they put a filler behind the trigger guard that keeps you from bashing your knuckles. If you build your own you can sort of copy what they've done. Break out a router and/or Dremel tool and practice with pine and when you've got it figured out go to whatever wood you like. Bedding compound, used correctly, makes them fit tight if you get gaps. Anyway, that's why I like the smaller grips. You can always add material. But if you start with large grips it's hard to make them smaller.

[leftiye]

Sounds like you could solve all of the problems with custom grips that fill in behind the trigger guard and are longer down below the end of the frame to get enough length for youe hand width (with either version of the SBH). I had a pair of Herret grips on the dragoon model SBH way back when (had that neat poly choke ventilated rib on it too, and I really liked the look!) They weren't too bulky, and it was a great grip.

[MT Gianni]

I have thick square palms and medium length fingers. The standard ruger grips are the first thing that come off and go back on the day I trade or sell them. Gianni

[bisleyfan41]

I also have shot all the various versions of the Ruger grips and for me the bisley is hands down the best of them all for mitigating recoil. Other than it i would go with the super frame as it is longer. The shorter blackhawk frame is intended to be gripped with the pinky finger under the frame. That's ok, but never really worked for me. The best way to figure it out is to find fellow shooters with the various types and give them a try.......everyone's different.

BTW, Lloyd, the super blackhawk hunter has the longer super frame with the square back rounded off.....makes for a really pleasant grip as well.:Fire:

[targetshootr]

Most of the custom shops practically insist on using the Bisley grip frame for big bores because they handle recoil much better. Never heard one recommend the SBH and I won't have another one after it whacked my knuckles like a nun gone beserk.

:Fire:

[Four Fingers of Death]

It is the hammer that gets me. If you put one next to a BH you will see that altought the Bisley looks lower it is identical. maybe checkering would have helped me hold it better. Maybe years of work as a correctional officer have softened up my grip. I just remember how hard I worked at getting used to it and how much it cut me up and how plumb disappointed I was after wanting a bisley for so many years.

Maybe my idea of big is bigger than most. I just know those Blackhawks will slide through my hands and not hurt, no matter how hot the load is.

Perceptions are funny things, I stopped a serious assault in the middle of a jail exercise area once and the perp escaped while I was protecting the victim. Officers were there in no time flat and I described the guy and said firstly that he was short, blah, blah, blah. Seached the yards of the jail, 500+ guys floating around, couldn't find him. Loacked the jail down and as they were locking this guy up, I recognised him from accross the cell block. "That's him!" I called out. My felow Correctional Officers said, 'he's not short, he's about 5'10." I relied 'Hell, your' all short as far as I'm concerned.'

[targetshootr]

Yep, a lot of people are behind bars due to the memory of a witness. Like those boys at Duke, but lucky for them they had families with decent lawyers.

I was shooting my Bisley 44 the other day with 17gr of 2400 and a 250 Keith which is no big load but it did fine for my paws which are stubby. Although the SBH I just traded away had one sweet hammer pull but a trigger like a Hi
Power.

[Dale53]

Yeah, "Perception is reality" when it comes to descriptions of felons and grips:mrgreen:.

I have "long hands", my palms are long and my fingers are long but are not "big" like some fellows I know. The base of my thumb is really sensitive to recoil. I love S&W revolvers but cannot comfortably use a wood grip no matter who has made it (I've tried more than a few custom grips). Years ago, I decided that "Form FOLLOWS function" and voted for comfort. I have Pachmayr grips on just about everything that I own (except for Taurus - they come with well designed rubber grips).

Yep, Pachmayrs are ugly. However, I can shoot heavy loads all day long (even my TC .375 JDJ) without pain. I'm more than a fan, I REQUIRE rubber grips as ugly as they are.

However, when it comes to the Bisley (I have a 5.5" Vaquero) I can use standard factory level .45 Colts without rubber grips. If I were to use the hotter loads for a Ruger, I would probably put Pachmayrs on it also. Undeniably, for ME, the Bisley is a good bit better grip. It all depends on your personal "geometry".

However, do NOT live with pain. If "pride" is keeping you from comfortable grips then I suggest you re-examine your prioities[smilie=1:.
Dale53

[44man]

I have large knuckles from shooting archery and large hands. The Bisley tears me up. The choice depends on your hands. If you have clearance between the trigger guard and your fingers, it will work for you. It is all personal.

[crazy mark]

Good luck finding rubber grips for a Bisley. I have contacted several companies and they just don't make them. I do have rubber grips on my RBH's though. I have no problem shooting my 44 Mag Bisley with full power loads but I also wear a light glove on my right hand. I have to do thatwith my T/C's also though. Mark

[McKenzie]

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses. I guess I'll have to find an example, or two, of each and try them out. Holding the guns the other day, I never thought about the recoil driving the triger guard, or hammer, back into my hand. Shooting 44 and 45 double actions hasn't ever presented that problem. Any grip that allowed proper handling of the recoil by the palm and web of the hand worked well.

I guess the journey is the reward.

Thanks

[EDK]

If you shoot double actions, the BISLEY is a good choice. Get a set of EAGLE GRIPS GUNFIGHTER model or something similar from CARYC and ENJOY.

I shoot BISLEYS, SUPER BLACK HAWKS and ORIGINAL SIZE VAQUEROS with both grip frames. The GUNFIGHTERS are so superior to the factory grips as to be unbelievable.

:castmine:

[bisleyfan41]

I think that when you shoot a single action with a regular grip......bh, sbh, colt, etc...you are supposed to use a "loose" grip and let the gun "roll" upward in your hand. The original colt grip frame was designed that way. With the bisley, i think you're supposed to grip it tighter and NOT let it roll. This will direct the recoil more or less straight back into the palm to be dissipated. I tend to grip my bisleys this way. You're on the right track, though. Find various samples and give them a try. Good luck.:Fire:

[Lloyd Smale]

alot of people who shoot bisleys and dont like them are holding them wrong. there used to choaking up on a single action and thats not the way to shoot a bisley. If you get a lower grip on one so they come straight back instead of rolling they are a piece of cake to shoot even with the stoutest 475 or 500 loads. It will go along way toward preventing the bisley hammer from taking a chunk out of the web of your hand too!! ask me why i know that!

[9.3X62AL]

I'm another one whose hands get along with Ruger (and Colt) Bisley grips, but not so well with the plow-handle Colts and Rugers. My Blackhawks get Hogue neoprenes about 15 minutes after they arrive home.

I have taken to wearing PAST recoil gloves with all of the harder-kicking handguns. Many thousands of recoil impulses over the years have taken their toll on my right hand, and arithritis is becoming an issue in my right thumb. Elmer Keith warned against this problem many years ago, limiting himself to only 500 rounds per year of his stronger 44 Magnum loads. He was correct, and I didn't heed the warning. Shame on me.

[felix]

They don't talk much about ruining your sighting eye looking through powerful scopes either. Be leary of those scopes that pull your eyeball for any reason. Beware of scope power, and darkness. ... felix

[RugerFan]

alot of people who shoot bisleys and dont like them are holding them wrong. there used to choaking up on a single action and thats not the way to shoot a bisley. If you get a lower grip on one so they come straight back instead of rolling they are a piece of cake to shoot even with the stoutest 475 or 500 loads. It will go along way toward preventing the bisley hammer from taking a chunk out of the web of your hand too!! ask me why i know that!

A wrong hold is exactly what I was thinking when people said the Bisley hammer was biting them. The way I was taught to shoot Bisleys (and single actions in general) was to allow your elbows to pivot your forearms up at the shot. Your forearms and the barrel stay in a relatively straight line. With a full power load the barrel may end up at a 11:00 position. As long as you flex at the elbows, the hammer shouldn’t bit you. The pistol should not roll back in your grip (This is much easier to explain in person). If the pistol does roll back in your hand, you are fighting the recoil and not taking advantage of the Bisley design. Allow the pistol to recoil up.

[9.3X62AL]

Someone above mentioned double-action shooting in the context of operating the single action revolver.

Guilty as charged, here.

I use the Weaver stance for all handgun firing--with snug (not tight) hand tension, looser at wrists, elbows, and shoulders. I should add that the high-powered revo calibers like 454 Casull--480 Ruger--and the Linebaugh chamberings--aren't on my menu. No Contender or XP-100, either. If a Redhawk in 44 Magnum can't handle a venue, I just find a rifle.

[Blackwater]

Felix, can you explain a bit? I'm curious. I know just enough about optics to know how much I DON'T know.

And EDK (is that the right letters?), what is it about those Eagle gunfighter grips that makes them so good? Are they perchance a bit larger at the top of the grips than std. Rugers? If so, that's probably just what I'm looking for on my OM SB. Thanks for any help.

[felix]

Not the optics per se, Blackwater. It's your eyeballs which are not made for that kind of strain. Cataracts are caused by looking at continuous bright light as well. Didn't show up until about 5 years ago, at 60. Prolly 4 hours per month average for over 20 years with a 12, 16, 20, 24 power scopes. The latter scope caused the greatest damage, I feel, because of the continuous BR work with it during matches. Nowadays, it's 36 and 40 power scopes for the same purpose. Required to read the fine conditions out there during competition. Bad medicine all the way around. ... felix

[lar45]

Get the Houge Mono-grip.

[EDK]

Felix, can you explain a bit? I'm curious. I know just enough about optics to know how much I DON'T know.

And EDK (is that the right letters?), what is it about those Eagle gunfighter grips that makes them so good? Are they perchance a bit larger at the top of the grips than std. Rugers? If so, that's probably just what I'm looking for on my OM SB. Thanks for any help.

The GUNFIGHTERS are about the same thickness on top and bottom (like a Government model 45 auto,) but thinner than factory and are also contoured. Some knowledgeable people say grips should be thicker at the top than bottom or at least same thickness and my experience agrees. Also, the flat--not beveled like factory type--bottom of the grips gives you more usable length without increasing overall length. I can use GUNFIGHTERS on standard BLACK HAWK (XR3-RED) grip frames and they feel as comfortable as a factory DRAGOON (square back SUPER BLACK HAWK) grip frame and grips; GUNFIGHTERS on a DRAGOON or BISLEY are even better! The person who designed them is a genius!
I am using SUPER BLACK HAWKS, BISLEYS and ORIGINAL SIZE VAQUEROS with the larger grip frames in 44 magnum and 5.5 inch barrels. Several still have factory grips on them, but I will be going to visit EAGLE GRIPS in a western Chicago suburb this summer with those that don't have GUNFIGHTERS. EAGLE will custom fit grips while -you-wait or overnight if you have several for free--I have had 8 done in 2 trips. I shoot 40 rounds daily (range is out the back door!) All but one set are checkered water buffalo horn; a DRAGOON in smooth buffalo horn on a 7.5 44 VAQUERO. I will probably get smooth grips for the VAQUEROS and stay with checkered for the adjustable sight guns. That seems to work best with otherwise identical guns and loads.
I hope I'm not chattering too much--just trying to give you all the information I can.

:castmine: