The frustration of reloading S&W 500

[KaliforniaRebel]

After shelling out some serious cash of even the lowest priced box of this stuff, I thought I'd have a try at reloading to make the S&W 500 experience last on my kind of budget.

Using Lee mold 90991 and clean WW lead, I dropped the pills into a bucket of water to quench them hard. While looking up data online, I decided to download for the sub 1300 fps range ( gas check? Ha! NO. )and the only powders listed for that are AA #9 or Titegroup.

So the Boolits have weighed in @ 445 gr. each. Rather heavy, but workable.

Out of the powders listed, I only have Titegroup. I was going to run a batch of 25 with it until I read this article:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/178521-why-i-dont-use-titegroup-500-a.html

Rather a disappointing buzzkill to say the least. I was just going to start with 14.5 gr. on these guys since it's listed for the 440 gr. Cast Performance Bullets (lead gas checked) and a difference of 5 gr. is no danger.

What I missed though is that this happened using the lighter pills at or under 375 gr.

I was just going to continue my current plan except I'll pack in a small tuft of poly fiberfill to keep the powder against the primer. The lingering "what if" still remains though....

Is my paranoia legit? Will this lead to the doom of a hard earned 500?

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Sounds like you need to get some more loading manuels.

Try a Lyman cast bullet manuel and you will likely find info for your project.

Also if possible get something that does not need a case filler, as this will save you time and effort.

And yes, there are a number of powders out there with which NO case filler will be needed.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[saz]

I like you was in a bit of a hurry to get my 500 to the range, so my first load was a lee 440 w\o GC (hadn't arrived yet) over unique. I couldn't help but feel a little weary when the first ones went downrange, because 17grs of unique in the bottom of that behemoth case is just a drop in the bucket. It would have been hard to notice even a double charge.

The accuracy was nothing to write home about either. But on a better note once the GC's arrived the accuracy improved dramatically.

If you are looking for a good 1300fps load with that boolit, give IMR4759. You simply cannot overload the case with it, very consistent and meters well. I like it.

[KaliforniaRebel]

The reason I am where I am is sort of a domino effect. I'm using the powder specified for low (ish) pressure so I don't have to use a gas check or alloy. With the most expensive item bought being the brass, the use of wheel weight lead + CCI primers + titegroup + homemade lube + torn up pillow stuffing = 65 cents a round or less. Depending on how many uses I can get out of brass I can get even more inexpensive rounds to fire.

The number one problem with going to a higher bulk powder with any published load data is the cast bullet velocity. I'd have to alloy and/or use a gas check effectively increasing my cost per round substantially.

The use of 14.5 - 15 gr. Titegroup and a 440 gr. cast boolit is in starting load territory for the 500 as shown on the Hogdon website. Whether I can get around the GC issue and maintain accuracy remains to be seen.

[KaliforniaRebel]

I'll look in the IMR4759 saz. I like the idea of going to another powder that produces a slower burn so it's easier on the brass and gun.

I was also hoping to avoid the use of GC's, but if it makes enough of a difference that my targets look like shotgun victims, i'll bite and buy a bulk package.

[Longwood]

Rule #1 in my reloading room.

Don't ever use a powder that can be double charged.

I now read that some powders don't like to be loaded light but yet beyond the double charge point, for instance H-110.
Rats, I have about four pounds of H-110 and a couple of 4227 and nothing to shoot it in now.

[saz]

If you dont want to drop $55 on a box of gas checks, you can buy 100 at a time from Matts Bullets. He is a member here and a heck of a good guy. I dont shoot a whole lot of GC boolits as my goto boolit in the 500 is my 550gr mountain mold boolit.

http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=81&products_id=270

The IMR 4759 is still a faster powder, it is just bulky. It is made for large low pressure cartridges. 44man turned me onto it as he had very good success with it in a 45/70 BFR.

[oldsgm]

I use 12 grains of Unique behind either the Lee 250 grain REAL Bullet, the 350 grain Lee minie, or the improved Lee mini, or a 350 grain Lyman great plains bullet (all molded from WW and sized .509). Accuracy is acceptable and the cost is fairly cheap. I have been shooting these loads for several years. When the 500 first came out, you couldn't find cast bullets anywhere so I pressed my 50 caliber muzzleloader bullets into service. It just all depends on what you are looking for in a 500 S&W load


http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_239134fb28c5857a9e.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5231)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_239134fb28c19bde46.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5229)

[nanuk]

I use 12 grains of Unique behind either the Lee 250 grain REAL Bullet, the 350 grain Lee minie, or the improved Lee mini, or a 350 grain Lyman great plains bullet (all molded from WW and sized .509).

.509?

what does your rifle slug out at? I thought the .500 S$W was a .500 groove or so...

[TomBulls]

You will want to weigh your cast bullets. I wouldn't waste my time shooting it without a gas check. I tried it once and the accuracy was awful. I couldn't hardly get them on the paper at 50yds., but all that changed after getting some GCs. I also use the Lee 440gr GC bullet in .501 dia., and after installing the gas check the bullets come out at 465gr. I can't find data anywhere for a 465gr cast bullet, so I called up Hodgdon. They hooked me up with the right data for W296/H110, so if you are having doubts about the accuracy of your load data I would recommend calling up Hodgdon, for help with Hodgdon/Winchester poweders, or find a more reputable and dependable library of load data.

-thomas

[oldsgm]

.509?

what does your rifle slug out at? I thought the .500 S$W was a .500 groove or so...


I shoot both a Smith and Wesson 500 in 6.5" and 8 3/8" and a H&R Handi Rifle in 500 Smith and Wesson. I have two different sizing dies. A RCBS .500 and a Lyman .509.

With the Lee mini ball bullets I found I have less lube groove deformation sizing them to .509 than the standard .500.

I also have the Lyman #515141 mold , which drops a .512" diameter bullet.

The key thing to remember is that these are very light loads for the 500, and I have never had a problem with leading and accuracy as defined by minute of pop can at 25 yards.

Since I can't hunt big game any more (medical reasons), I am reduced to shooting cans at the range, and the lighter loads are the ticket for that.

I did ruin a rabbits day once when I got off a shot with a reversed hollow based bullet in the H&R Handi Rifle.



http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_239134fb28bd788de0.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5228)

[geargnasher]

Something in the OP scares me. I'm going to yell, please forgive me: DO NOT EVER "TAMP DOWN" A DACRON WAD OVER THE POWDER. Doing so is a predictable recipe for a ringed chamber, and in a revolver the recoil will push the powder and Dacron "wad" up against the boolit base anyway after the first shot or two, so it's a waste of time unless you install the Dacron correctly.

If you use Dacron to locate the powder against the primer, loft it up and gently poke it into the case with a pocket screwdriver or allen wrench so that it stays lofted and fills the entire area between the boolit base and powder, with slight compression against its natural loft. This usually means when the Dacron is relaxed, it nearly fills the case to the mouth and you compress it slightly when seating the boolit. Do not just pack the space full, either, just a slight compression over the density to whichit normally relaxes on its own. Don't worry, powder won't migrate through it.

Gear

[KaliforniaRebel]

If you mean for me to restrict the amount I add in the chamber, I plan to use as little as possible. I don't want to use more then needed.

Many thanks for the tip gear.

[MT Chambers]

Lotta things wrong here, first, the hairdo, then trying to save money by not using GC when you are saving a ton by casting and loading your own.
Also: RUSTY OLD COOT.....who's "Manuel" and why is he loading for you?

[Freightman]

Buy a reloading book with the data in it! then read all the good stuff at the front before you start. Better yet buy at least two, you will be surprised at how much you will learn. online data unless from a very reliable source is just like information gathered on line worth what you paid for it, and far more dangerous. IMHO

[KaliforniaRebel]

First off, I don't like Ted for his hair. I like him for his politics, stance on gun laws and his music. At least it's much cleaner compared to the local hippie that has been sleeping in an occupy tent.

For seconds, when I try to find local supplies of shooter needs here I feel like it's as if I plan to make a snowman in hell. The politics and environment are so screwed and hostile they already tried to ban out of state ammo sales by mail and I have to drive at least a half hour or more just for the smaller reloading stuff. It's fun when you have to pick and chose powders by availibity or shell out the extra cash and pay the hazmat fee on powder and primers.

I do what I do when I'm limited by funds, ability or availaibity. Please understand that for the next guy in the same boat. We aren't all blessed to be born in a better part of the US for such a hobby as this (in my opinion).

BTW, been through Lymans 49th edition twice over already. I come here to learn more and I appreciate all CONSTRUCTIVE feedback when provided.

(Many thanks to all that do)

[geargnasher]

You should move to America, you already speak the language and things are much better over here. We'll even honor your citizenship, not that it matters considering all the illegal Mexican immigrants have amnesty now, at least until the election.

Gear

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

KR,
Mostly I am reluctant taking/giving ONLINE loading Data.
But the exception is when it comes from an expert like John Ross.
http://john-ross.net/sw500.php
Read his history with the 500 to understand his conclusions.
He has designed several boolits for the 500 S&W
mostly Heavy ones !
his data lists several fast rifle powders as opposed to slow pistol powders.
Also if you want to stay in the CHEAP and don't want to fill the case full of powder as Mr. Ross says to...go with the H110 powder, be sure to charge them at least to MIN./starting charge, I think that's 32 gr. and if you run that MIN load, DON'T shoot them in COLD weather (below 30ºF), H110 doesn't like the cold.
Hope this helps,
Jon

PS. I would recommend using a gas check with the Lee 501 440 boolit...unless you remove the shank, it's so much purtier :) see post #6
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1747372#post1747372

[KaliforniaRebel]

You should move to America, you already speak the language and things are much better over here. We'll even honor your citizenship, not that it matters considering all the illegal Mexican immigrants have amnesty now, at least until the election.

Gear

Someday I dream of moving to Reno, Gear. I really do. I'm tired of paying more while more then half the population here don't do anything to support themselves. Each year the half arsed group of snobs that call themselves politicians have to revise a budget (that has been late the last several years in a row) based on "unexpected" growth to make up the fiscal hole dug for years.

It's only going to get worse and I no longer want a part of it. Votes decades ago used to be based off of land ownership because those that provide had the right to chose who would run as a political figure. As of late people that contribute nothing and take more are growing in power to the point where votes are sold, not earned. Demand will outstrip supply, costs will increase and the hole will grow. This state can't do the same thing it has been doing but it won't change.

Anyway, enough said and I'm off the soap box.

To stay on topic, I want to say thanks Jon for the link. I've been deliberating on using H110 at first, but the reload data looks good. I think i'll pick up a pound and experiment this weekend and i'll quit using fillers for now until I'm sure it's safe.

[olafhardt]

If you reverse the lee modern mini it takes up a lot of that extra volume when seated flush. I shoot it out of a handi with 6.4 grains of Unique. Even if I double load I am under max. It blows up rocks and clods with alacraty. I have wondered about just cutting about 1/2 inch off the brass to make a 500 short for reduced loads.

[saz]

"Closest recorded range Chrony kill (3 feet with witnesses)"

*****!!!

[CGT80]

Have you looked into trail boss powder for light loads? I use it in my 460. You can't use too much, as long as you don't compress it. I also use Accurate 5744 for medium loads. Unlike 296/110, 5744 is safe for lighter loads but will almost give me full power in the 460 if I want to. I use 296 for the hot loads.

5744 and TB work very well with my cast boolits as well.

I know you want to save money, but don't go with a powder that may be unsafe. I ordered an 8lb jug of TB from powder valley and a couple pounds of 5744, as well as primers. Hazmat sucks but so does having to buy what is in stock at the LGS or blowing up your gun with a bad load.

[cz75shadow]

KR,
Mostly I am reluctant taking/giving ONLINE loading Data.
But the exception is when it comes from an expert like John Ross.
http://john-ross.net/sw500.php
Read his history with the 500 to understand his conclusions.
He has designed several boolits for the 500 S&W
mostly Heavy ones !
his data lists several fast rifle powders as opposed to slow pistol powders.
Also if you want to stay in the CHEAP and don't want to fill the case full of powder as Mr. Ross says to...go with the H110 powder, be sure to charge them at least to MIN./starting charge, I think that's 32 gr. and if you run that MIN load, DON'T shoot them in COLD weather (below 30ºF), H110 doesn't like the cold.
Hope this helps,
Jon

PS. I would recommend using a gas check with the Lee 501 440 boolit...unless you remove the shank, it's so much purtier :) see post #6
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=1747372#post1747372


Rifle powders in the 500? That could be interesting as I usually have lots of H4895 on hand... I would like to see some actual data on the lee bullet with these powders, mine weigh in at 456 grains with gas checks and lube..

I have been having a hard time sourcing powders and my h110 supply is pretty much done..

[Socal147]

Pushing a 325 grain lead bullet:

12 grains unique - kicks like a 357 magnum
10 grains to be tested.
6-8 grains - found many references online but have yet to test. Unique is cheap to use and effective.

Not Position Sensitive!

[Whiterabbit]

Rifle powders in the 500? That could be interesting as I usually have lots of H4895 on hand... I would like to see some actual data on the lee bullet with these powders, mine weigh in at 456 grains with gas checks and lube..

I have been having a hard time sourcing powders and my h110 supply is pretty much done..

wow, this came up from the dead! fast 223 powders are suitable for the 460/500, but they are on the very slow side to work well. So, powders like 4759 and 4198 are great to use, but powders like 4895 do not burn well enough, and leave an unburned powder mess all over the place.

Best thing to do is use 45/70 (or 50/70) as your guide and reduce from there. I suspect that is what the load data makers did for 460. When I interpolate hodgdon data up from light bullets to heavy bullets, OR interpolate 45/70 data to the same weight bullet but a 75% smaller case, the candidate powder charge value is EXACTLY THE SAME. within a couple tenths of a grain. That kind of correlation is pretty telling.

Anyways, if its a slow 223 powder, it's too slow for these pistols.

[frank505]

Trail Boss is what i use with the Lyman semi wadcutter bullet. Does 1150 out of my rifle and makes almost no noise..............thirteen grains is the load.

[krit29-2]

I don't know, lyman 375 grain non gascheck over 11.5 grains of unique seems to work good for me, makes a nice light "plinking" load that still punches through a 4x4 we used as a target stand .

Oh accuracy at 50 yards off a rest not to bad either...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i279/kritter2000/HPIM0731.jpg (http://s74.photobucket.com/user/kritter2000/media/HPIM0731.jpg.html)

[Whiterabbit]

wish my bfr was that accurate...

[saz]

wish my bfr was that accurate...

Mine is..... Lee 440 over 15grs Unique. Recoils like a .44 Mag and hits like a freight train at 1100fps from the muzzle.

[saz]

wish my bfr was that accurate...

Mine is..... Lee 440 over 15grs Unique. Recoils like a .44 Mag and hits like a freight train at 1100fps from the muzzle.