Best screw for end grain?

[Spokerider]

I'm looking to attach a decel pad to a yew wood rifle butt. I know that common woodworking screws do not hold well in end grain. Is there a better / best screw to use? I could always drill out a hole and epoxy in a piece of cross grain wood.......but that is more work.

[rmcc]

Even though it is end grain, the most important thing is match pilot hole to thread/ body size of screw. If the wood is hard and close grained the threads do not need to bite as deep hence a larger hole size is desired to keep from putting too much force on wood and splitting stock. All I can say is I have never found a "perfect" screw for all stocks, it is more a matter of feel. To ere on the side of caution, I drill a larger than smaller hole. I would rather use a little AcraGlas in a screw hole than a lot of it and then have to refinish a stock.

Rich

[gnoahhh]

Just screw it on. If you think about it, how many butt plate screws have you seen that failed? Use a bit that matches the minor diameter of the screw for the pilot hole, and all will be well. Rub a little wax on it to ease its transition into the wood. Putting epoxy on it will certainly make sure it won't ever come out, even when you or somebody else has occasion to remove the pad.

[waksupi]

I've always used the standard screws, with no problems. As was said, make the hole the right side. I also put a bit of wax on the screws before putting them in, makes the job easier.

Guess my answer is redundant!

[Tokarev]

I think that composition of the pad has to do with longevity of the screw holes. If the screw head holds just a rigid plate to which softer layers of rubber are glued, it will last longer than if the head is in the soft rubber.

[Longwood]

If you have extra screws, make a tap out of one with a small die grinder or Dremel cut off blade. Run it in and out of the hole, cleaning the tap each time, and going a little deeper (about one turn) each time.
Then a little drop of epoxy or resin down the hole. The new Yellow Elmer's wood glue will help also.
Super glue does not like to be moved as it sets up so I would not attempt using it on screws.

[atr]

since the screw in the end grain is not in Tension you should have no problems,
screws in end grain which are not in tension usually fail after repeatdly being removed and then re-applied, something which you are not likely to do....another cause of failue is over-tightning....I suggest snug tight + 1/4 turn.
atr

[Jammer Six]

From a woodworking point of view, the best way to screw into endgrain is to drill and install a hardwood dowel perpendicular to the screw, then drill and screw into it.

[Box13]

A lot of woodworking type stores carry pilot drills that are shaped like a woodscrew shank.This allows for the best fit and hold as only the threads bite into the wood...Robin

[Safeshot]

You might try a "deck screw" (cad plated, flat head, philips head. "gold color). They have very coarse threads or double pitch threads. They seem to hold well in "end grain" - at least that is my experience. If you are worried about the threads failing due to repeated removal and installations, install the screw - dry - N0 wax - to full depth, then remove the screw, then apply a FEW drops of "Super Glue" in the screw hole an allow the super glue to "run down" into the screw hole and "dry". After the Super Glue is completely dry, reinstall the screw with some wax on it. Hope that this is of some help.

[targetfreak]

Sheet metal screws. No taper, hold like the dickens. Have mostly made wood screws obsolete, at least among serious woodworkers (I'm a recently retired one). Don't overthink this. Is anyone going to try to PULL your pad off?

[Whiterabbit]

From a woodworking point of view, the best way to screw into endgrain is to drill and install a hardwood dowel perpendicular to the screw, then drill and screw into it.

This. But what on earth forces is that buttpad going to be subjected to that requires going so far?

a second place would be to use a hurricane nut. Also way overkill IMO for the application. Does it need to hold 65ksi? :)

[Wayne Smith]

You might try a "deck screw" (cad plated, flat head, philips head. "gold color). They have very coarse threads or double pitch threads. They seem to hold well in "end grain" - at least that is my experience. If you are worried about the threads failing due to repeated removal and installations, install the screw - dry - N0 wax - to full depth, then remove the screw, then apply a FEW drops of "Super Glue" in the screw hole an allow the super glue to "run down" into the screw hole and "dry". After the Super Glue is completely dry, reinstall the screw with some wax on it. Hope that this is of some help.

The problem of screwing into end grain is that you are pushing into the end of a bundle of fibers that relatively easily move aside and don't spring back like when they are broken. The glue idea is the best one because it stiffens these fibers, giving them better grip than if the screw is put in with out this stiffening.

[JIMinPHX]

I've had good luck using dry wall screws in piloted holes, especially if there is room to go deep with a long screw. I'm not much of a woodworker though. Others here probably have a lot more experience with that particular material.

[waksupi]

Jim, drywall screws will rust away. Regardless of what you use, they should at least be cadmium plated.

[uscra112]

You might try a "deck screw" (cad plated, flat head, philips head. "gold color). They have very coarse threads or double pitch threads. They seem to hold well in "end grain" - at least that is my experience. If you are worried about the threads failing due to repeated removal and installations, install the screw - dry - N0 wax - to full depth, then remove the screw, then apply a FEW drops of "Super Glue" in the screw hole an allow the super glue to "run down" into the screw hole and "dry". After the Super Glue is completely dry, reinstall the screw with some wax on it. Hope that this is of some help.

+1 on the Superglue idea. I build a lot of model airplanes, and face this problem constantly. Balsa is about the weakest wood there is when it comes to putting screws in it. "Hardening" the wood with CyA (cyanoacrylate) is the go-to solution. We use the thinnest, most watery CyA that can be obtained. Model airplane shops will have it, or buy online. What you buy at hardware stores and Wally World is thicker than is optimal for this job.

Use the coarsest thread you can, it will leave more wood between the threads to bear the load. Which in this case is pretty low.

I've even repaired stripped holes in wood by filling them with fine sawdust and saturating it with thin CyA. Then drill and thread as usual.

[JIMinPHX]

Jim, drywall screws will rust away. Regardless of what you use, they should at least be cadmium plated.

I've seen galvanized drywall screws. Would they be a good choice?

...I'm askin, not tellin, because I don't know.

Thanks,
Jim

[Longwood]

I've seen galvanized drywall screws. Would they be a good choice?

...I'm askin, not tellin, because I don't know.

Thanks,
Jim

Drywall screws are very hard and very brittle.
Not a good choice for a lot of places they get used.
The most commonly called, "Sheet metal Screw" would be a better choice.
A couple of stainless ones will work for the guys that evidently drop their guns overboard now and then. :kidding::groner:

[Jammer Six]

It's a matter of the shape and depth of the threads.

Much to my surprise, after deciding to learn everything I could about threaded fasteners and doing my research, I took my new knowledge to Tacoma Screws (a revered destination here in Seattle for all things threaded) and asked "why would anyone buy wood screws when washer head or pan head sheet metal screws accomplish the same goals, are cheaper and would theoretically hold better for longer?"

The guy shrugged, grinned, and said "I don't know. I've wondered that myself."

Since then, I've updated my buying habits.

Phillips head screws are, quite literally, designed for the driver to cam out of them. Really. The logic was that it's better for the driver to cam out and the driving stop than for the fastener to twist off, leaving a fastener and a hole that ain't no good to nobody nohow.

So I switched to #2 square drive, and have never looked back. A square drive is particularly helpful in exactly this case: when you want exact control over the torque you're exerting.

[Longwood]

Phillips head screws are, quite literally, designed for the driver to cam out of them. Really. The logic was that it's better for the driver to cam out and the driving stop than for the fastener to twist off, leaving a fastener and a hole that ain't no good to nobody nohow.



Usually what causes a Phillip's screw driver to "Cam out" of a screw is the screw driver,,,, not the screws. Unless the screws are made in China that is. They don't seem to fit any screw driver made. AND visa-versa.
As soon as one of my screw drivers begin to do that,,, I cut off the end and toss it in my box of things to make stuff from.
Cheap ones usually do it on the first use.
Some of the tool trucks sell good screwdrivers that have the interchangeable tips like in most gun screw driver kits.
Watch out with the cheaper gun screw driver kits also.
Some of the better bits sold at the contractor supply stores, have little grabber teeth that will actually lock into screws. They can sometimes be a headache with the magnetic tip tools,,, but I sure do like them most of the time.
Any screw driver that has a sharp point, is not a Phillip's. It was probably one that was made like nail points are cut and it is impossible to make a good Phillp's screw driver that way.

[shotman]

well all have offered
But best is the stainless steel deck screws
Problem is you have to buy by 100

[Mk42gunner]

Every Pacmyar (sp) recoil pad that I have bought in the last twenty or so years has came with two pan head sheetmetal screws in the package. Usually #6 or #8 by about 1 1/4".

If you are worried about them rusting, most farm stores sell stainless ones individually for not much less than you can buy a whole box for.

Robert

[Jammer Six]

One of the greatest pleasures in life is completing what others say can't be done.

I love it when this happens.

I just retired, I was a carpenter by trade and a contractor by profession.

If it hadn't been for equipment coming from overseas, I wouldn't have made nearly as much money as I did. At the end of my career, I never looked at American made equipment-- whatever it was, the same quality could be had from overseas and a fraction of the price. We called it the "entitlement tax" that Americans add to products by touching them.

By the way, it's extremely bad manners to bring politics into a non-political discussion. I tell you this because I see no one else ever has.

[Bren R.]

Drywall screws are very hard and very brittle.
Not a good choice for a lot of places they get used.
Amen. I see them used by a lot of home handymen for structural purposes... [smilie=b:

Bren R.

[Jammer Six]

If you go to axis of the world, you will find that our little planet is held to it's axis by four drywall screws, three sinkers and sixteen feet of duct tape.

[Longwood]

An old mechanic told me one time that we will see the last VW when they quit making drywall screws and duct tape.

[Char-Gar]

I was taught to use good old Elmer's glue on the stock before screwing the pad on. The glue will hole the pad with zero stress on the screws. We used plain old wood screws with a proper pilot hole.

[fourarmed]

If you look at old buttplate screws and new recoil pad screws, they are always parallel-sided instead of tapered like wood screws. Pretty much tells me it's the way to go.