Lee's round nose design in a levergun.

[Jason30-30]

Anybody out there shooting lee's round nose c309-180r designs in a tubular magazine lever gun? I know lyman's 311291 is a good bullet but it has more of a radius nose to it. Lees is kind of a little more pointy and than round. Just wanted to know if anyone else is shooting them out of there lever guns and if its safe

http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz14/JASONf22/35b7c087.jpg

[just.don]

I recently acquired this mold for my tube fed (and a future .308, which I have done pretty much all of the necessary preparatory logistics. Brass, dies, etc.).
I have not cast with it yet.
I was thinking of making a jig to stand them in and filing them down a touch to make them flat. Benefit being now you have their 170 fn.
But looking at the pic I think using the top punch I bought for the 150 fn may flatten it out enough during sizing to make it somewhat less of an issue.
A 180 semi-flat?

[runfiverun]

i think i would keep that boolit in an 0-6 bolt gun.
it's just a bit pointy [for me] to try in my winchester.

[EDK]

A flat point LEE two cavity mould is a lot cheaper than a new gun or your hand.

There was a study published in RIFLE or HANDLOADER magazines about a round going off in a tube magazine some time back. The round going off because of a pointed boolit was considered unlikely by the author, BUT why tempt fate? You really don't want to be they guy who has a "one in a million" accident!

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley::guntootsmiley:

[northmn]

I have used a Lee RN is my 30-30 but I size it with a nose punch for a flat nose. Mine likes the Lee 312 185. The 180 should work similar.

DP

[MasS&W]

I don't think you would have a chain fire... but it is a bit too pointy for my liking. If you must, make sure you keep your loads on the light side. Better to go with a FP though.

[w30wcf]

That bullet is definitely safe in a 30-30 levergun.
Here's why.....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/magazinefeed30-30.jpg

Note also the smaller points on these factory 30-30 cartridges.....
If the factories did not think them safe in a tubular magazine they would never have made them but they knew that the cartridges do not rest directly on the primer as the photo shows.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Collector%20Cartridges/110-125.jpg

w30wcf

[imashooter2]

Concur with w30wcf. That design isn't as "sharp" as the very popular Remington 150 grain offering or a few others.

[WyrTwister]

The only factory .30-30 ammo I have shot is the Federal 170 grain SP jacked that I used to get at Walley World for about $ 9.95 a box .

I agree , if Federal's lawyers are not worried , I am not .

Yes , I have shot the Lee ~ 180 grain bullet , but can not say much good or bad about it . I am still learning about cast lead in bottle neck center fire rifles .

God bless
Wyr

[DeanWinchester]

I got to thinking about this this morning and tried me an experiment.

Started with a primed case, a Lee 180g RN cast from aircooled wheel wheel weights, and a big hammer.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/3030primer1.jpg


Holding the boolit with a pair of needle nose pliers, I commenced to whoopin' the piss out of it. http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/3030primer2.jpg


My personal opinion is, that a round nose cast boolit is perfectly safe. If you look close you can see the case head stamp pressed into the lead and obviously the primer made a ring. Nothing. Dropped it in the rifle and BANG!!!
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/3030primer3.jpg

[Jason30-30]

Wow Dean that was a heck of a post!

Thanks I will try some hunting loads for my 30-30 using this bullet thanks.

[DeanWinchester]

Wow Dean that was a heck of a post!

Thanks I will try some hunting loads for my 30-30 using this bullet thanks.

I think you will find it too long. I did the exercise merely to lay to rest the claims of a RN lead boolit being able to set off a primer. If three good whacks from a hammer wont do it, what will? What's more, how much recoil would it take to smash a boolit like that?:smile:

[Rayc384]

A jacketed lead nose bullet is usually close to pure lead and thus softer than most cast bullets.

[imashooter2]

A jacketed lead nose bullet is usually close to pure lead and thus softer than most cast bullets.

So it is your belief that... What?

[Jim]

I'm guessing he's suggesting that CBs made with harder alloys might set off a primer. Am I right, Ray?

[DeanWinchester]

These were air cooled wheel weights. I have some cast from water dropped wheel weights that are a 168g Spitzer. Shall I try the experiment again with that?

[Jim]

Proceed!

[DeanWinchester]

I'll let you know tomorrow!

[DeanWinchester]

Well, I was going to wait and do this tomorrow, but curiosity was killing me, so here it goes.

This is a Lee TL312-160-2R cast from water dropped wheel weights. I checked the hardness with a Lee hardness tester I got from my ole buddy Jim here. They check about 21 as best I can tell. My eyes have a bit of difficulty looking through that darn little scope.
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/30300.jpg


I gave two different boolits three GOOD wraps with a hammer. Look at how it molded itself to shape of the primer!!!
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/30301.jpg


Feeling the need to crack this egg, I did it with a full copper condom and nearly wet myself! POW!!!!
http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd371/Reloadingfool/30302.jpg






Now, I will say anyone who would tempt fate is a fool, but if my back was against the wall, I'd use these boolits in a lever 30/30 and rock on. Sorry, the myth is no myth with jacketed bullets, but as far as I am concerned, she's busted with any kind of cast boolit. In my worthless opinion, there's no way a 30/30 can kick as hard as I was hitting with a hammer, I mean look at the boolits! I crushed them buggers.

Again, you're stupid to trust this test with your precious gun or more importantly, your life and limbs, but I think the fear [while understandable] is a bit over inflated.

[Char-Gar]

No conversation about bullet nose shape in tubular magazines can be held without talking about recoil.

The 30-30 levergun does not generate enough recoil to set of a primer with a blunt round nose like 311291. Go sharper than than that and I would not want to take the risk with full snort loads.

Use anything but a flat nose is a 45-70 and you are asking for mega problems. Not even a blunt round nose here.

To answer the original question, I would not shoot that Lee bullet shown in the pics in a 30-30 levergun with anything near full charge loads. It might work just fine, but I will not be the one to give it a try.

[DeanWinchester]

Really? I thought this would stir up something. That's why I did it.

I don't think I will be loading a lot of pointed cast boolits anytime soon, but it's obvious you can't set a primer off with one.

Wish I had some monotype. I bet it's hard enough to do it.

[Char-Gar]

Really? I thought this would stir up something. That's why I did it.

I don't think I will be loading a lot of pointed cast boolits anytime soon, but it's obvious you can't set a primer off with one.

Wish I had some monotype. I bet it's hard enough to do it.

There is nothing obvious about it. You home garage experiment is pretty near worthless. The ammo factories with all of their equipment and experience has been loading RN bullets in their ammo for 118 years for a reason.

Load up some of your pointed bullets in full charge loads, and go shoot twenty of them in a levergun and them come back and regale us with you knowledge on the subject. Then maybe somebody will listen to you.

[DeanWinchester]

Wow, what's with the attitude? I was just trying to stir up discussion not start an argument.


You know, funny thing. Some of the nicest and most trustworthy people I've ever met hang out right here. Also some of the snobbiest "it's beneath me to respond to you" types too.

Have a great day there Char-Gar. Blessings to you and your family.

[felix]

Similar to the probability of a SEE condition. Heavier boolits (cartridges), if all not same weight, should be loaded into a lever gun first such that they will fire last. Recoil, the backwards vector directly into your shoulder, is in YOUR favor. The cartridges will tend to remain at rest as the gun recoils BACKWARDS. Tying the gun up so it recoils against something heavy, like a tractor tire, could more easily cause a tube firing condition. We are talking boolits/bullets having the sharper points being discussed. ... felix

[DeanWinchester]

Similar to the probability of a SEE condition. Heavier boolits (cartridges), if all not same weight, should be loaded into a lever gun first such that they will fire last. Recoil, the backwards vector directly into your shoulder, is in YOUR favor. The cartridges will tend to remain at rest as the gun recoils BACKWARDS. Tying the gun up so it recoils against something heavy, like a tractor tire, could more easily cause a tube firing condition. We are talking boolits/bullets having the sharper points being discussed. ... felix

THat sounds like a plan.

I thought for sure that I could get a primer to go off with the pointed Lee boolit. It's pretty hard. As hard as I was hitting it, I thought for sure it would go off. I was surprised it did not.

[felix]

Use the CCI military primers for maximum safety when using pointed projectiles. ... felix

[Char-Gar]

Wow, what's with the attitude? I was just trying to stir up discussion not start an argument.


You know, funny thing. Some of the nicest and most trustworthy people I've ever met hang out right here. Also some of the snobbiest "it's beneath me to respond to you" types too.

Have a great day there Char-Gar. Blessings to you and your family.

Well, when you saying something is obvious that isn't obvious, it invites a rebuttal. However, my main concern is somebody will click in here and think there is no risk to shooting pointed bullets in a 30-30 levergun, based on your "obvious" comment and your bang he bullet on the primer test. Let's say that person is injured or killed by taking you seriously.

To me, that makes your comment irresponsible. This internet forums are not just a bunch of guys sitting around the garage shooting the bull. This stuff is out there for all to see and read. There are plenty of folks who just might do something based on your comment. Hence the attitude.

To be certain, the risk of a pointed cast bullet setting of another in a tubular magazine is low, but it is there.

So, if you got your feelings hurt and think less of me for my comment, then I can live with that. What I could not live with is some idiot thinking it is obvious that there is not potential harm in using such bullets in such rifles and finding out otherwise the hard way.

So what you think, is just trying to stir up a discussion, might have very bad consequences. So, you earned the attitude, whether you own up to it or not. So, the bottom line is I was not being a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk. There was a reason.

[DeanWinchester]

Right. And there's nothing else here that's inherently dangerous for stupid people to misinterpret.

It's never a bad idea to be extra cautious. It just seems obvious that beating lead into a primer, more than once, with more force than any recoil will produce, and failing to get it to pop is kind self evident. It was very easy to replicate with a jacketed bullet.

As far as irresponsible, I can be quoted as saying that anyone who would tempt fate by trying this is a fool. Post # 20


Anyway. Enough pointless bickering from me.