Welding up and re-cutting serrations on TT-33

[Tokarev]

I know the purists will frown upon that, but I've acquired a number of garbage quality war-time TT-33.
To some collectors they may be valuable pieces, but to me they are just cheap parts guns to keep few really nice quality TTs going.
As I am going to use them for parts anyway, I've decided to try and weld up the pre-1945 slide serrations as shown here
http://photos.imageevent.com/willyp/russiansovietcomblocsection/comparisonalbumsofcomblocweapons/tt30tt33tokarevvariants/icons/PolM48GripL.jpg
and re-cut them to the post-1945 pattern shown here
http://photos.imageevent.com/willyp/russiansovietcomblocsection/comparisonalbumsofcomblocweapons/tt30tt33tokarevvariants/icons/T54GripL.jpg
Is it possible to weld up the cavities without crooking the slide and what welding method/material should be used? I know how to cut the new serrations and blue to original color, but welding is not my :coffee: I'll approach a professional welder for that, just want to be aware of what is the right method.

The images were taken from a wonderful write-up page on TT-33 variants (http://imageevent.com/willyp/russiansovietcomblocsection/comparisonalbumsofcomblocweapons/tt30tt33tokarevvariants) by willyp - thank you willyp for putting that up wherever you are!

[mtnman31]

I'd say TIG is probably your best bet. You can control the heat and depth with much more precision than with stick or MIG.

Are you sure you don't just want to slop some Bondo in there and spray paint it with rattle-can bedliner?[smilie=1:

[MBTcustom]

Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper, and quicker to run a chop-saw through it and just be done with it?:kidding:

[Tokarev]

I believe it's my business only what to do with my property. If you don't respect my property rights, how can you expect anyone to respect your 2nd amendment rights?
If you don't understand the difference between two types of serrations, could just ask instead of behaving like jerks. The shallow round serrations in the top picture (pre-1945) provide virtually no grip. It was fixed for exactly that reason in the post-1945 model with dovetail-style serrations.

[dnotarianni]

Tig would work but I would be more inclined to use MiG and quench after welding each grove for less heat distortion. Another thought would be a hybrid cut, Just go in each slot and square up the slots for a better grip. Either way your bluing will not match from original metal to weld metal. Last option is to cut out the existing groves and put in an insert to cut your line in if you have enough metal. Tough to say which would be better from the pics

Dave

[kywoodwrkr]

I can see the image difference between the two, but the size prevents any detail observations.
How do you propose to cut your serrations after getting the side built up as desired?
You should be aware that when you weld steel up, the very rapid cooling of the weld will/can result in the metal taking on a hardness much different than the original steel. It can even break regular HSS mills. Constant cooling during welding can assist in keeping the steel from getting too hard-maybe!
You should check the hardness of your slide before and after your welding work. Annealing may be required and should be done very judiciously to keep it from becoming to hard and/or brittle.
I guess what I'm saying is check the metallurgy of the slide out very well as you proceed with this.
Also, a:kidding: is just 'pulling your chain'.

[Bren R.]

On a different note, I'd say find someone with the 1911-style serrations and trade slides.

The scalloped ones give the gun its style, IMO. Like having a "Batwing '59" and sending it to the body shop to be streamlined.

Bren R.

[KCSO]

TIG weld the serretaion with a spacer block clamped into the slide at the bottom to help prevent warping. Anneal the slide by heating red hot and cool slowly in an ash bucket. Then recut the slide grooves with milling cutter. If you can do all that you are good to go. For a warpage block I used cod rolled with slide grooves cut in and havent lost a slide yet, but...
You do realize that the time and labor involved will buy you a new gun. Since the factory slides are not htat hard anyway why not just milll out the old grooves and dovetail in new metal and cut your serrations in that?

[GL49]

Tokarev,
I went a different route to solve the grip problem on the TT-33, but I have trouble hanging onto the itty-bitty serrations on auto slides. Let us know how the welding and recutting goes and the methods used to do it. I'm interested.

[MBTcustom]

I apologize for joking around. I just meant it as a joke and that's all. Sometimes my sense of humor is a little wrong. I expected you to get a laugh out of my comment, but it wasn't taken that way, so I apologize.
The truth is, I have had this same situation and it pertained to a C.A.I cheapo 1911 that I had customized. The slide serrations were cut with a dull cutter, and were all different depths and some had ben eaten off or damaged. I asked a master TIG welder at my place of employment at teh time what he thought of building up the serrations so that I could re-work them. He said that it would take hours, and the possibility of warping the slide were great, even if he progressed slowly and worked both sides at the same time. I decided that I would rather by-pass the whole welding thing and use it as is. Which I did, and sold it for what I had in it. Just saying that you must proceed at the risk of the gun.
The good news, is that there is no important bearing surfaces, or high wear areas at the back of the slide where those serrations are, so destroying the heat treatment of that area is not so much a problem as long as you keep everything forward of the ejection port cool and unharmed.
Once you get the thing welded up, file the slide smooth on both sides. The reason for this is that the surface of the weld will be slightly harder than the underlying metal, and when you remove the top surface, it will stress relieve, allowing the opposite side to torque the slide that way. Once you have draw filed the slide flat on both sides, smoke it with a match or a lamp and see where it hangs up on the frame. You will not be able to bend it back into shape, so you must use small files and carefully work the rails back into alignment with the frame, using the smoke to show you where to work. Once you have all that done, file the serrations back into the slide. It would be of great help if you had a machinist friend who could trade you some mill work for a little liquid currency, as filing in 75-100 grooves and keeping them strait and of uniform depth and width is a bit of a challenging task. (If all else fails, I can certainly help you out with that.)
Again, I know I should have posted advice first and jokes later. Sorry.

[Tokarev]

I thought when posting the OP that someone would mention micro-welding or powder welding.
If I am not mistaken, while powder welding, the workpiece temp does not normally exceed 300℃.
After it's all welded up, I was going to test hardness and depending on it use a regular small dovetail milling cutter in a head placed at 30° and just go back and forth at the right horizontal steps, or use a diamond wheel.

Of course there is a whole different alternative of just soldering serrated wedges over that area with soft solder. At least that is reversible.

[MBTcustom]

Been thinking about this project. I have done flame spraying before, and it was definitely a high-heat operation, and very messy.
What about milling out the existing serrations to the depth they were cut. Make strips of serrated steel that is only about as thick as it has to be. Make them a press fit in the cavities that you mill out, much like an inlay. Go ahead and solder them in place with low-heat solder, blend them into the existing frame, and rust blue the whole thing. The fact that they are inlays instead of just pasted over the existing grooves would give greatly improved strength to the idea.