NOE Future Group Buys

[SwedeNelson]

Future Group Buys

We have spent the last 2 weeks evaluating our overall operation and our Group Buy system and it is apparent that we have to make some changes to the way we have been running Group Buys.

As you are all aware, we have had a 10 to 12 month backlog and each month the schedule seems to slip.

This is an effort to try to get our delivery time for group buys down to something that is more equitable for all involved while still maintaining our price point. In the past we have had a first come, first served system with a lot of small buys between a few larger buys. We felt this was a fair system. Unfortunately it has became very apparent that the small buys have as much work in them up front as a larger buy, are not breaking even, and are extending our delivery times for all buys.

The second thing that has come to light is that we have got to be able to make inventory runs on past buys in order to reach our financial breakeven point.

Starting in July 2012, we will be using a new system to try and meet these goals. All currently scheduled buys and any new buys will follow these guidelines:

• It will still take (15) fifteen orders to get a group buy started. At that time it will go on a Group Buy list to be tracked for the number of orders it gets.

• As soon as a buy gets (30) thirty orders it will be moved to the production schedule. When a buy gets on the production schedule it will not be "locked" on a first come list. As the buy gets more orders it will move up the list to be run.

• It is now possible to fast-track a buy through the system. The more orders a buy gets, the faster it will move.

• If there are no new group buys with 30 orders, the buy with the most orders will be moved to the production schedule.

• We will still only require payments (2) two or (3) three weeks before a buy is run. Honchos have always handled this in a way that has worked best for them and we will still work the same way. This may mean money comes due sooner for some buys that get fast-tracked.

We are sorry for any financial discomfort this causes, but it is a necessary part of the process.

We will make (1) one inventory run per month to try and maintain our inventory sales. Members will have a chance to have some say on this by posting what they would like to see run from our existing catalog of molds and we will try to run the most requested first. We will have the final say as to what we run.

That will leave (2) two runs a month open for group buys. We have been optimistic in the past and tried to schedule (4) four buys a month but our track record has shown that, that production level is not feasible with current tooling.

This will impact our current buys; some will move faster, others may take a bit longer to get done based on the size of the buy. Again, for those inconvenienced, we apologize in advance and if for any reason you would like to be removed from a buy please notify the honcho or us directly so we can remove you. We hope the above changes don't disagree with anyone, but after reviewing our current system and the possible changes, we felt this was the most equitable way to handle buys and get through our backlog.

Again, we thank our customers for having stuck with us and we appreciate your willingness to work with us as we grow. With luck, these changes will mean that eight (8) months from now we will be able to run buys as quickly as wanted without the delays we are currently encountering.

NOE Bullet Moulds
Al Nelson
aka: Swede Nelson

[SwedeNelson]

To see the "List of group Buys" go here:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=142415
No need to keep two list going!

Swede Nelson

[TCFAN]

Well I am really disappointed that you have come to this decision.I was really looking forward to getting the 2 molds that I have been waiting on for almost a year now and have paid for since march. But it looks to me like group buy #111 will never have enough interest to ever make it to the production list. So I guess I will have blammer give me a refund and reorder from Accurate Molds.
I do hope that you have made the right decision and every thing works out for the best. You do make a great boolit mold. I just bought one off of your web site today. Also have two more on my casting bench. They are nice molds.........Terry

[Stick_man]

Al, I applaud you for the gutsy move. It was move that really did need to be made. I do believe it was the right move though and everyone will benefit from it in the long run, even if a buy we have waited for a long time to happen now may not.

TCFan, I too am in on the GB#111. I would suggest we attempt to rally the troops of .44 shooters and see if we can't get this one run. We may have to just throw out feelers every once in a while to see if any additional interest has developed to the point where the GB becomes viable. With only one .44 cal GB on the horizon, I would imagine there would be interest in another one cropping up soon.

As for inventory runs, I'd like to request either the 358156 or 358429 clone be one of the early ones. (just my 5 cents worth here).

[Oreo]

Competition is a wonderful thing. Molds that don't make business sense for NOE can be sent to another maker.

[boltons75]

Well, there goes my hopes of getting my mold this month, gb104 was suppose to be run this month. Now its on hold again till August, until it gets bumped back again. Will just wait and see I guess.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[dromia]

Whilst I fully understand NOE's position here and respect its absolute need to turn a pound to stay in business and make a profit I cannot be other than disappointed that moulds I had looked forward to may not be forthcoming or eternally put on the back burner. :-(

No doubt my fault for wanting the more esoteric and therefore less popular moulds.

Such is business and I hope that this works for NOE.

[mktacop]

For an upcoming inventory run, I'd love to see the 453-230 RN.....I REALLY want one of these molds.

[SwedeNelson]

TCFAN, others

Note that the buys "List of group Buys ( Less than 15 orders )"
In post #4 are all bullets we have tooling for.
They could be run as a "Inventory" at just about any time.

We are trying very hard to make this work for ALL.

Swede Nelson

[Stick_man]

TCFAN, others

Note that the buys "List of group Buys ( Less than 15 orders )"
In post #4 are all bullets we have tooling for.
They could be run as a "Inventory" at just about any time.

We are trying very hard to make this work for ALL.

Swede Nelson


Al, you just made my day. I was really looking forward to that boolit. Now, I have renewed hope to see it happen sometime in the not too distant future. Although I want it RIGHT NOW, I'll put my big boy pants on and try to be patient. :)

Thanks for clarifying that.

[TCFAN]

I too was really looking forward to getting the .434 short nose.But I have had my money tied up long enough with out any real hope of seeing group buy 111 ever being run. I will still commit to one of the RG2 or 4's if they are ever made.But for now I need a refund................Terry

[NoZombies]

While this is disappointing, I do understand from the business side of things.

NOE, wilJen, et all, feel free to delete my comments from the other post about this, I hadn't seen this thread, and it's a more appropriate location for the discussion.

[btroj]

Al, I totally uderstand your need to have a viable, profitable business.
We are honored to have your business providing us with great moulds and other products.

I will support you fully in whatever it takes to continue in your endeavors.

Brad

[bearcove]

Make it profitable or it will end poorly.

Looking forward to seeing your inventory run list. I vote for 358009 I think it is a rerun on existing tooling. It has a fairly good list already.

Others I have interest in have shorter lists or require new tooling.

We're behind you Al.

Rod

[ColColt]

I don't see the 358156 listed...what's the story on that one?

[Mibo]

Could you please make this post a sticky so we can keep up with it

Thanks
Mibo

[happy7]

Well, four of the six molds I was interested in are now postponed indefinitely. Time to look elsewhere I guess. Honestly, I fully understand the need to do something different here. And I am a fan of NOE molds.

I am going to be real honest here. I would guess that I am poorer than most around here, but I think the answer was to raise prices. From a consumer standpoint, when you know you are waiting and know that, however slow, you are making progress, that is one thing. But when you have no idea if the mold you are waiting for will ever advance, that just isn't going to work for me.

[SwedeNelson]

happy7

Sorry you feel that way
I'll remove the 358318 245 gr. RN that you are
honcho on and make sure your name is off of any
other group buys.


ColColt

If your looking for the 358477 150gr. SWC it is
already in the shop.
I don't think we had a buy started for the 358156???

Swede Nelson

[midnight]

I am disappointed 358318 will not be made but I am one of the lucky ones who have a Lyman358318. A high quality multi-cavity would have been nice but I can make do with what I've got. The 358009 and 513850 have a much better chance having 25 &26 current buyers respectively. Some of us may have to buy more than one mold to keep them going. I'll wait a few days and decide what I am going to do.

Bob

[happy7]

Swede, when I said "look elsewhere", I only meant for the three buys that have been kicked to the very back of the line. You make a fine mold for a very good price and I still very much want to stay on the list of any that will be made.

[SciFiJim]

ColColt,
The closest we have come to the 358156 is the 360160 double crimp groove SWC that I shipped in January.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=108300 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=108300)
We started with the basic design of the 358156 and made the lube groove deeper.
It is in NOE's catalog. With enough interest, it could be added to the list again.

[ColColt]

You're right, Al-I had the 358156 on my mind.

[canyon-ghost]

Not a problem here. That's the way I'd catch up too, just pick the most work first and dive into it. Makes more sense from a working viewpoint.

Inventory runs... hmm....

Ron

[Stick_man]

The idea of going with the "most molds ordered" first makes a lot of sense. Every hour spent re-tooling is an hour taken away from production. If the shop spends all of its time re-tooling, how are they going to be able to make ANY progress on cutting down the wait times. By re-tooling only 2 or 3 times a month instead of 3 or 4 or 5 times in a month should allow for an additional group buy or two to be run each year. More time spent producing = more product to sell = more revenue = higher profitability = ability to expand operations sooner or stabilize a small business.

[chboats]

I would like to make sure I have this right. Any GB with less than 30 orders will never get produced as long as there are GBs with 30 or more orders. I don't believe that it could be profitable to make an "inventory" run on a mold that new tooling must be produced. Also just because a GB with 30 orders and is on the production schedule does not mean it will ever be produced as long as there are GBs with more orders.

Do I have it right?

I understand that a business must be profitable or it can not remain in business. What about quantity price breaks, more orders lower prices

Carl

[SwedeNelson]

Carl

I have already been accused of passing on "MEANINGLESS WORDS" so take this for
what you want.

You are making some assumptions that I have no idea how the out come will be.
Our break even point on tooling could make it possible to run 30 orders, we have been
doing it on less, granted our margins are very small to nothing.
I can see that the next 6 to 8 months will be nothing but running buys, using our
"inventory" run to put out fires and try to keep the peace.

As to quantity price breaks I think the best brakes I have been quoted was based on
250, 500, and 1000 orders. I don't for see that happening at all.
But if by chance we can make any savings it will be passed on.
We have held our pricing from the start, I think that is something in this day and age.

I hope this helps you.
Swede Nelson

[slide]

Swede knows his business better than any of us. We're on the outside looking in. I don't think he is the kind of a guy that will leave us hanging if there is a way. A profit has to be made or he will close the doors. Is that what we want? Everybody take a deep breath,relax, and give him a chance to work this out.

[Hamish]

It blows my mind that this has devolved into a big crybaby fest!

Oh Boo-Hoo, I might have to wait a little while to get my custom made mould at a much cheaper price. Oh the horrid unfairness of it!

It was entirely obvious that the short orders would be cycled in as slots opened up, not eliminated.

Grow up.

[Splatter]

I think that Swede's plan make a lot of sense. I'm not super happy about it; but I support it.

The one thing that I might suggest is doing slightly larger runs when the GB is being run. There have been a few moulds in NOE's catalogue that I wanted; but not badly enough to wait.
I'm not saying that I want Swede to have to sit on a huge warehouse full of expensive and slow moving inventory, but I'd like to see a bit more than he has now, if that's possible.

And while I'm as cheap as the next guy, I think that maybe it's time for a modest price increase. I really don't think that 10% would be out of line.

[Stick_man]

The one thing that I might suggest is doing slightly larger runs when the GB is being run.

This is already being done. With each GB that I am aware of, there has always been extras available afterwards. Probably for exactly the reason you indicated. That is where his current inventory of molds has come from. I don't see that practice changing at all except for possibly increasing the number of "extras" with each run. It only makes sense. Companies will often produce as much as their working capital will responsibly allow.

Remember though that in ANY kind of manufacturing arena it is tough to forecast demand for a new product. Some designs sell out faster than anticipated. Other designs that have lots of interest will sit on shelves for months on end.

Oh, the joys of being in manufacturing.

[H.Callahan]

I don't see that practice changing at all except for possibly increasing the number of "extras" with each run.
...and I imagine those runs that have larger numbers of order will probably get more overruns. If 50 people have signed up for it, it is a good bet that there are a number more that didn't order for whatever reason that will change their mind in the future. I know that there have been a number of recently closed buys that I would have liked to get in on.

[bearcove]

I find it amazing that somebody could ask for a price break.

I have been amazed that Al has stated with his original price structure. He provides a top punch and small tools for the molds for less than the big mold makers and has better quality.

AND MADE IN THE USA!

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
Swede, good on you for making a decision that you believe will help the situation. No one but you can understand the whole story and I'm sure you've looked at the options closely.
One mold I've ordered is in jepordy BUT if losing out on one means you stay in buisness so I can get the others, I can live with that.
To every one else, look at what we used to pay on EVIL BAY for old molds. These blokes have been providing molds we couldn't get before or paid too much for. Also they have priced them within reach of all of us (imagine buying a original 225107 for Swede's price).
I buy whatever mold I need in RG format when possible because if you balance what a few hundred "J" hollow points cost the molds soon pay for themselves. Also where I live the components for the guns I use aren't available.
If Swede had to lift his price to maintain the previous production system most (not all) would be crying about it. I for one wouldn't care as long as we still had him producing his works of art.
Never forget how we snivelled when BRP went.
GOOD ON YOU SWEDE, JUST KEEP TRADING PLEASE!!!!!!
Juddy

[SwedeNelson]

Thank you all for the input and words of encouragement.
Still trying to get a handle on it all, we will get it one way or another.
Like I have said before "I just want to make bullet moulds"

Again thanks you all for the input.
Swede Nelson

[longbow]

Al:

I also support your decision even though I dropped out of the 311465 buy. I am in another group buy for a similar mould but one I want more.

Yes, the long wait is part of my decision but so is limited budget and having to make decisions where and when it is used.

I have been very happy with my NOE moulds and I hope this all works out for you, and of course all your customers... and I will be a customer again as well.

As I said before, I think your pricing is very good and it would not hurt my feelings if there was a price increase especially for smaller runs.

That wouldn't help at all with your backlog though. You turn out a quality product and people are lining up for it. About the only thing you can do there is stop taking group buys until you get caught up or simply let people know the wait is unavoidable then they make their own decision.

You are one of few offering a custom service to provide moulds and diameters not readily available so it is well worth more money and/or longer wait.

There will be complaints ~ no matter the decision, someone won't like it but look at all the people you have made happy. I am sure they far outnumber the complainers.

Just keep on making moulds Al.

All the best.

Longbow

[chboats]

Any GB with less than 30 orders will never get produced as long as there are GBs with 30 or more orders. I don't believe that it could be profitable to make an "inventory" run on a mold that new tooling must be produced. Also just because a GB with 30 orders and is on the production schedule does not mean it will ever be produced as long as there are GBs with more orders.

Carl

First I would say that what is said is in fact true and under the current scheduling rules is the best possible scenario for Swede. It means that he has enough large GBs to fill his schedule.

I was disappointed that a mold I was looking forward to may not be produced or may have to wait another year or two. If that is the biggest disappointment I ever have, I have it made.


bearcove – once again I did not make it very clear about what I meant. I believe, if it is necessary to make a profit, that Swede should raise his prices on smaller quantities. I know I would pay it. I am amazed he can sell his molds for the prices he does. I have several of his molds and look forward to more.


Carl

[ddixie884]

Ramslammer is right about BRP. I never bought a mold from Bruce, and I still miss having that option. Swede has to do business in a business manner, or he'll be out of biz.....

[pcarpenter]

I certainly agree that as the owner of the business, Al has the right to run it as he sees fit and needs to manage things in a fashion that let him stay in business. I've bought one of his molds from inventory and am (was) waiting for one to be produced on a group buy schedule. He makes nice stuff and I want to see him do business in a fashion that keeps him in business.

On the flip side, unless I missed the point, I'm not sure this is going to help with that. I'm on the list for the 323471 FN. It was originally scheduled for August. Under the new policy, it has maybe over half of the number it now takes to get on the schedule meaning it now may never happen at all. I for one have passed up some unique opportunities on some other 8mm molds because I knew I had this one on the way. I am going to be far less apt to sign up for a group buy if I know I could wait a very long time under the presumption it will be made...only to have it never happen. What if it goes another year and then Al get's around to it (or not)? A lot of us buy a custom mold with a particular gun in mind--often to solve barrel dimension problems. I know that I have bought guns, worked on boolits, load development and ultimately decided to move on to something else (and sold or traded the gun) in 2 year's time.

Another thing that may happen is that people may sign up for a NOE buy under the knowledge that it may keep getting shoved to the end of the line. Then when something comes along elsewhere, they go that route-- again because the NOE design may never happen, and bail out on the first mold buy, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. In short, if you can't know you are eventually going to get what you signed up for, you are more apt to look for other options.

Perhaps the real issue that is disappointing to some of us is that the strategy was changed for existing scheduled molds. I had an appointment for an alignment on my truck the other day. I left work early, drove 15 miles, I showed up on time, waited 35 minutes, only to have them *then* tell me that they were too backed up and that they would have to reschedule me. It's similarly disappointing to know that a product I committed to buy under the assumption it was scheduled for August (give or take) will now be bumped to the back of the line.

I am a bit surprised that making fewer molds works out to be good business strategy. Most businesses with too much work look to expand. It's normally a good problem to have, but maybe that doesn't apply to something that requires this sort of careful attention to quality.

Paul

[SwedeNelson]

Paul

I cant do much but agree with you, this is one big mess.
But I think you need a few more facts and need to take some things in to consideration. I see a lot of not sure, may have and could have's in your statement. So I offer the following and you can take it for what ever you want.

Our old schedule -
As to our old schedule it has been pointed out to me time and time again that it was nothing but "meaningless words" and that is probably true.
For every month we would run we would get 2 to 2 1/2 weeks behind.
I had totally over loaded it in a feeble effort to try and take care of all your requests. Most months the shop was doing good to get out 2 maybe 3 buys.
With the old schedule and the way we were going your order for August would have been more like December or even January. That in it self is enough reason to make a major change. Maybe we should have set a 3 month back log and canceled every thing longer, probably wouldn't have got any more back lash than what I'm getting. Again feeble effort to try and take care of all your requests. Need to try this out and see if it works or not all the same.
It may well be a "self-fulfilling prophecy" have experienced a death struggle before and this feels a lot like it.
I do know that if we ever get out from under this it wont happen again!

"If you can't know you are eventually going to get what you signed up for --------".
Again if the schedule is in its place this problem will be too.
Until we get out from under this schedule mess there will be no guarantee of any flow of orders. At this time all I can do is humbly apologize and see if we have any orders left to even run.

"Disappointing to some of us is that the strategy was changed for existing scheduled molds"
And this has been a very big consideration. With the over booked problem that I created I had no options but to make the change now.
If I would have waited for the schedule to finish up it would have been way to late to even try to save NOE. And believe me when I say it wasn't a easy decision. As it is we may not weather this at all.

"I am a bit surprised that making fewer molds works out to be good business strategy"
On this point you need to do your home work a lot better before you go here.
If you look at the group buys, we are still getting as many or more moulds out as before. We are just not tearing down and setting up for all the small buys like we had to. That has been one of our biggest problems. We don't and cant offer next day delivery like some of the other mould makers and they don't run 30 or more moulds at a time as we do. Big difference.
So as to a good "business strategy" we should have done it a long time ago.
You are totally out in left field on this. Sorry to be so abrupt but you are not even close on this point.

"Most businesses with too much work look to expand" Yes that's so.
I have spent the last 2 years trying to build up our capacity and "expand".
I have three shops on line at this time and have looked at 3 others to try and help. Of the 3 that we looked at maybe 1 will come on board.
The other 2 had problems with either quality (couldn't hold the tolerance that you all demand) or quantity (needed to run 250 of one kind at a time).

We have also looked at setting up our own shop but with the margins that are involved that's not going to happen. There is a very good reason that most of the big mould makers build moulds as a side line. A bank would look at our P&L statement and laugh.

"It's normally a good problem to have"
It very well could be a good problem, and it humbles me to be going through this knowing I'm letting down so many of my customers.

So all I can say Sir is - sorry

Regards
NOE Bullet Moulds
Al Nelson
aka: Swede Nelson

[blaser.306]

Keep up the good work Al. Sure it may be an inconvenience for some , But , for those that have your moulds already know that it is worth the wait. The quality that is seen in any of the moulds that I have seen is second to none and that itself takes time. You could turn out moulds that are of an aceptable quality in a higher quantity but that would get no one anywhere fast. So like I say keep on turning out the great quality moulds the best way you know how , And your followers will follow along.

[Gunslinger1911]

Hang in there Al, you have to do what's right for your company.

I only have one of your moulds so far, I look forward to more in the future !

[southpaw]

I guess I will give my 2 cents. It would be nice to have some of the not so popular moulds made, but, it seems that the big problem is that they are taking up too much time, dragging out the production and not making as much money. It only makes sense to run the buys that have the most moulds. Especially when you have as many buys as you do.

I will second whoever said that it is time for a price change. Think about it. You are charging about the same to slightly more than what a lyman 4 cavity goes for ($75-$90 depending on where you look). We know what we are getting before they are shipped out (proofed before they are shipped). Accurate charges $125 for a 4 cavity aluminum mould. Not saying that I want to spend more money, but it would be worth it. Right now I have 15 of your moulds and if buys for several others. Yeah, I have a problem.

Hopefully this will all clear up soon and you will find a way to expand and a way to make the smaller group buys. I believe that the majority of those here will stand with you and continue to buy your wonderful moulds.

Some people would complain at a free beer party.

Jerry Jr.

[SwedeNelson]

Matt, others

I just got done with a very good conversation with Happy7

Matt pointed out some things that he felt I should clarify and I think
he had some very valid concerns.

First and for most its is my intentions to finish every buy that we have on our schedule.
As one is finished the next one in line will go. And that gos for even the once on the bottom of the list.

The thing that wasn't clear is that I have no intentions of taking on any new group buys until we get to the end of this mess. I think that is the only fair way to get this finished.
Our "Policy" above does make it sound like we will be taking new buys on but that will only happen when this mess is behind us.

I hope this helps and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer.
Swede Nelson

[bwgdog]

Thank You Swede-I understand now how it wll work.

[dromia]

Thanks for the clarification Al and your commitment to us and the group buys.

[nanuk]

I wish I could afford to purchase multiple moulds to run some up sooner....

could always sell them on Ebay!

heh....

but me so broke

[scb]

Matt, others

I just got done with a very good conversation with Happy7

Matt pointed out some things that he felt I should clarify and I think
he had some very valid concerns.

First and for most its is my intentions to finish every buy that we have on our schedule.
As one is finished the next one in line will go. And that gos for even the once on the bottom of the list.

The thing that wasn't clear is that I have no intentions of taking on any new group buys until we get to the end of this mess. I think that is the only fair way to get this finished.
Our "Policy" above does make it sound like we will be taking new buys on but that will only happen when this mess is behind us.

I hope this helps and I'm sorry I wasn't clearer.
Swede Nelson

Wish you had made that clear earlier. That I could have lived with.

[SwedeNelson]

scb

I'm very sorry that I wasn't a lot clearer.
At the time I will admit I was a little touchy and on the defence.
I'm about like any one that is in a corner, some time you just come out swinging.

Sorry I wasn't more clear.
Swede Nelson

[NoZombies]

Thanks Al,

I think a lot of us were confused, but that explanation certainly clears things up for me.

[ColColt]

I don't think it matters when they get mailed out anyway. It's too hot at this point to do any casting anyway. It's been in the 90's here for the second week in a row and I'm not raising the garage door to do anything. It would be at least 90+ in there in short order.

[bearcove]

What counts as on schedule? 30+ or all of the ones that where on schedule like the small group buys that needed only 5+. And all the stuff inbetween.

[SwedeNelson]

bearcove

Not sure of the question but every thing that is
scheduled for production (ready to go to the shop)
is on the list "Group Buys for production".

Everything else is building to get on the list.

I hope this helps
Al Nelson

[bearcove]

Is there a difference between buys that have existing tooling and those that don't?

[PB234]

Swede, do what you have to do to make your business profitable and enjoyable so that you can continue to offer your excellent products here. It is better to get whatever we can from you than to get nothing from you because you get tired of trying to work 24 hours a day or find that it is just not worth your efforts.

Great products, great prices, great service - looks like people can't get enough and are disappointed there is not more. I suggest it is a compliment that any business would be delighted to receive.

Only suggestion is to run more of everything so that your inventory grows and people can order right off your web site for immediate delivery.

[SwedeNelson]

bearcove

No - we will be running every thing that is on the list.
The only thing it could effect would be if we have the
tooling on hand when a opening comes up.
Working on getting all the tooling together but at
$300.00 a pop I cant do it all at once.

PB234

Thanks for the words of encouragement.
We try to run as much extra as we can afford now.
Would like to double it but capital is a problem.

Swede Nelson

[bearcove]

No prob. Most of the stuff I'm doing "has" existing tooling.

[ColColt]

Al-I couldn't find the original thread on the group by for the 360477 so I thought I'd post here that I got my 3-banger today and it's a beauty. If it ever gets back in the 80's again I hope to cast some. Maybe a late evening or morning would work.

Thanks

[rollmyown]

I have never had any issues with the wait times for any of Al's or Miha's fine workmanship.

Good stuff is worth waiting for, simple as that.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Gee, I just seen this thread.

I think this is an excellent move.
The last thing we need is for NOE to not even break even on a GB run.
we can't let one of our best custom mold makers go out of business.
Jon

[SwedeNelson]

We are looking at some avenues to increase our production.
We hope to have some good positive news soon.
On the down side this doesnt happen over night.

Thanks
Swede Nelson

[9.3X62AL]

Rome wasn't built in a day, Al. I think the volume seen that causes the time delays is an accurate measure of the customers' appreciation for your fine work. I know I'm tickled with the quality of my just-received 360477 4-cylinder engine! Whatta machine!

[no34570]

Hang in there Al,you will make it ;)

[btroj]

Yep, the delays are from lack of effort on your part. The delays are due to so many people wanting your product.

We are our own worst enemy at times.

[handyman25]

For those who do not understand QUALITY is number one. Read the posts, the man is trying to find someone to help make the molds at the QUALITY we all want. I think the changes are correct. Time used to do unnessary tooling changes eats into mold making time. You want the man to get bigger and produce more molds faster like Lyman or Lee? Maybe he is not willing to lower his quality down to that level. If you want your mold produced faster then get more people ordering that mold.:killingpc

[TXGunNut]

The biggest disservice a business can do to its customers is to fail to make a profit and go out of business. No point in debate or anguish, Swede. You know where your break-even points are and there's no sense in doing a run that costs you money. I'm looking forward to my first NOE mould but that project is aways down my project list.
Think I'll go do a shameless bump anyway.

Mike

[largom]

I already have 15 NOE molds and I am not on any outstanding GB lists, so I don't really have a stick in this fire but would like to make a few points. Having owned and operated a couple of small business's in the past, I can relate to NOE's problem. The major problem is TIME. It takes time to set up a machine with tooling and material. That is time that the machine is producing nothing.

Many have suggested that Swede should make more over-runs for inventory and that's a good point, but that takes up TIME that could be used to set up the next job.

NOE offered to provide the service of producing custom molds at a very reasonable price and exceptional quality. We therefore flooded him with so many orders of different molds that they don't have TIME to produce all of them in the TIMELY manner that most want.

I say we give Swede and NOE a chance to catch-up on existing orders and then see if their new schedule will give the results NOE needs and we want.

Larry

[shdwlkr]

You know I read this thread and wonder how in the heck NOE kept it together as long as AL did.
I see some interesting possibilities also
If Al is able to increase his capacity to create molds what will the minimum order have to be?
What is the cost of his raw materials going to be in lets say 6 months and how will this affect mold prices?
Will Al keep making molds when he gets caught up? I think this one has already been answered.
Al runs a stand up business and is an excellence person to deal with and even answers the phone when you call and for the most part knows where he is at when you call about your group buy.

We buried him with orders and he produced them sometimes I am sure for little or nothing in his pocket at the end of the day.

I personally look at this way he ended up with too much of a good thing with too little resources to handle the capacity on his end so he did the right the thing. He stopped all new group buys until he can clean up that mess. He is looking to increase capacity, I have worked with Al on a few group buys and it really does bother him when things just don't flow smoothly. He is one of us and that is a big plus for us and most of all his stuff is made in USA and keeping some Americans working, that means a lot to me. Not knocking MHIA as he makes good molds and will shortly if he isn't already walk into Al's challenges.

Al just remember one thing many of here will still be waiting for your molds when all the dust settles and unlike one mold company we all have dealt with you do keep us informed of what is going on and for that you deserve a big thank you from us who know what a good mold is and just what it takes to make one.

Hang in there when you get caught up, hopefully find more capacity and can look forward we will do our best to bury with orders again.

[kir_kenix]

I ordered a mould off of NOE's website last week and it arrived in just 3 days!

I've been a member of probably 12 or so Lee GB's and 4 or so NOE gb over the last few years and I've always been very happy with NOE's products. The wait time on NOE, even at this point, is still quite a bit shorter then we were accustomed to with Lee at the end.

If somebody is bummed about a GB getting backlogged they may want to check out the website NOE has going and see if there is something similiar. Not only will you get that mould in less than a week, it will free up capital for Swede to keep the cutting going on current GB's. Heck, there are 25 .308-.311 moulds up on there right now!

I also think that you should raise your prices slightly...5-10% would give you a better margin and isn't likely to deter too many customers.

[6pt-sika]

I have a couple of the NOE product and they are of excellent quality at what I consider an affordable price .

I also realize each and every person has their own criteria for whats acceptable quality- cost - and time wise .

For me personally I want quality first , speed a close second and I'm willing to pay more to get it faster .
To be totally honest 4 weeks anymore is about as long as I like to wait and preferrably less .

Hence I don't get involved in group buys anylonger . Now thats not to say I might not take advantage of a stock item NOE has for sale .

[DukeInFlorida]

Al, I suggest that you take a look at:
http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/schedule.php

Needs some changes there.....

[SwedeNelson]

DukeInMaine

Will do.
Its been on the things to do list.
Will get it taken care of ASAP.

Swede Nelson

[NoZombies]

Any chance we could at least get a list someplace that shows a list of all the outstanding GB's? Everything being updated to the website only, and that some (many?) of the GB's aren't there is a little disconcerting for some of us (okay, me).

[Artful]

NoZombies are you looking for production schedule

http://noebulletmolds.com/orders/catalog/schedule.php?osCsid=p6jcdi85mh0k7kd12c86onrag1

Right now he's booking up thru March 2013 - the next one to go on the list will be the one with the most people ordering molds.

[SwedeNelson]

NoZombies

All 39 Group Buys we have going are listed on the website.
Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the page tabs.

"30 or More Orders" "15 or More Orders" "Less Than 15 Orders"

This is all the buys we have going. If its not on this list its not a buy.

Swede Nelson

[Hamish]

The biggest disservice a business can do to its customers is to fail to make a profit and go out of business.
Mike

Back in July when I first read this I meant to comment on it, glad I ran across it again. That quote is possibly the most level headed, eloquent statement in defense of capitalism and the pursuit of excellence through profit as I have ever read.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Al,

Thank you for working on your business and looking for ways to improve productivity and make a profit. That's the challenge of all growing small businesses. If you need to increase prices, do so. You'll still be putting out a product that's better than the big manufacturers and much more response to your customer. I for one want you to stay in business so I can buy more molds over time.

Best Regards,

Dave

[Shakey Jakey]

I would also like to see the 358009 used as an inventory run. Close to 30 right now and the tooling is on the shelf.

[SwedeNelson]

Shakey Jakey

I have about five that are on the list.
We are making head way.

Swede Nelson

[shdwlkr]

Swede
I am glad to here you are still in the fight so to speak and yes I am waiting for you to get caught up so we can again have group buys with your company.
I noticed here just a few days ago just how many NOE molds I have and yet I find I still need more so yes if you need to raise the price to me and really any future buyers so you can keep the doors open and the mills running do so. Yes it will bite my wallet more and take a little more time to find the new pricing funds but the bottom line is I will do so when a mold I want/need is up for purchase.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year old friend
May next year bring you less heart ache and more joy

[wiersy111]

Swede

As far as I'm concerned do what you need to and I will be here waiting. I have gotten rid of pretty much all of my other mold in exchange for top of the line quality NOE.

[FLYCUTTER]

Splatter, since you are volunteering for a modest price increase ,10%, You can pay a increase on my mold orders and everyone else.

[Capt. Methane]

Damn I should have been a tool and die maker...