PDA

View Full Version : 45-90 Help



JSH
04-23-2007, 07:45 AM
I am just throwing this out there for a fellow CB shooter that does not have a 'puter.
He picked up an early Sharps "old reliable" that was made in NY. He does not want to shoot BP unless he has too. He has several bullet weights and styles to choose from. Any of you that have a promising powder would be of help. I have pointed him to trail boss but he has not had any luck with it, so he says.
I myself think it may be a trigger issue on the accuracy part on this gun. I have shot my share of light triggers and this on is at about 2-3 ounces. I told him to maybe set it up for at least a pound and try that....................
Thanks in advance
Jeff

fishhawk
04-23-2007, 07:54 AM
i have used IMR 3031 in the 45-70 trapdoor with no problems so it should work in the 45-90 but haven't tried it in my 45-90 rolling block. fishhawk

shooter2
04-23-2007, 09:08 AM
This is from Ross Seyfried. For a BP equivalent load use 4198 (Either) at 40% of the BP load. For example, in a 45-70 this would be 28 grains and a 45-90 would be 36 grains. Fill the space with a "healthy" wad of Dacron. I use this load with good success in my Marlin 1895.

fourarmed
04-23-2007, 11:35 AM
Accurate 5744 is always one to try for that application. I got excellent results with it and the big Lyman 457125 in a .45-110. No filler, either. I'd have to check my loading notebook to tell you the charge, but it produced about 1100 fps.

MGySgt
05-08-2007, 12:36 PM
I have had great success with 41.5 grains of IMR 3031, lots of dacron (to fill the air space and slightly compress the dacron) with a 430 grain RNFP GC.

It will hold right around MOA when I do my part.

Drew

Gussy
05-08-2007, 03:03 PM
A Sharps was meant to shoot black powder and will shoot better with it. He should at least give it a try. He might just find out it's more fun!! I use 75-80 gr of1 or 2F. 1F recoils less. A good load can be worked up with either.
Gus

SharpsShooter
05-08-2007, 04:26 PM
Have a care shooting Smokeless in a Farmingdale Sharps. If I am recalling correctly, many were not proofed for smokeless. Gussy has it right, shoot it with proper powder and forget about that fadish white powder. The stuff will never last.


SS

MGySgt
05-09-2007, 12:02 PM
Gussy - The gentleman asked for a smokeless load, that is what I provided him. Some of us enjoy shooting the Sharps style/Single shot but we -

1. Don't have the time to relearn reloading for black.

2. We don't really want to have one of these rifles rusted all to heck because we don't really have the time it takes to re-learn how to clean a black powder rifle.

3. I have hunted with one of my 45/90's and took a good size cow elk with it - It would not have been any deader if I used black and I did not have to worry about getting it cleaned in the High Country of CO. Going by Air from Va to CO - I don't think you can even take BP loaded in cases - Don't know and I really don't have the time to find out.

Enough Said!

Drew

bushka
05-16-2007, 09:48 PM
I do believe all the Farmingdale Shiloh`s were throated for paper patched boolits for authenticity.This means shooting black with nekkid slugs will cause buildup in that area and cause chambering/accuracy decline after some rounds of it.
You could try seating them out further to pre engage the bore as to bypass the throat as it were.
You could also try IMR4759 powder,takes up more space.

omgb
05-17-2007, 12:51 AM
Best results in the 45-90 with smokeless will come with AA 5744 and a slug of at least 450 grains. 500 - 520 will most likely be the over-all best slug. Slugging the bore is a must but if you can't, start with a bullet of .459 in dia. Seat this out as far as you can in the case, preferably until it touches the rifling. Use a large rifle primer not a magnum and start with a load of 5744 of about 25 grains. Lighter slugs will permit more but 25 grains will give you about 1300 fps with a 500 grain bullet and the pressures will be under 20,000 cup. Farmington Sharps were usually throated for paper patched bullets but a grooved design will work well if it is seated out as far as practicle. That may mean exposing one or more grease grooves. The best alloy for this is going to be a lead tin alloy of either 20/1 or 30/1 lead/tin. Full length size the cases and bell slightly but do not crimp. I shoot a 45-90 quite a bit with smokeless and BP so if your buddy wants some more detailed advice have him send me a PM.

JSH
05-17-2007, 07:13 AM
I had not checked this for a while.
The paper patched throat would explain some of his grief. Although he now says that they are key holing at less than 100 yards? Surely a large throat would not cause that. He has tried several different bullet weights. I don't know what twist, but woth the bullet selection from 350- 535 and no luck...............
May be why the fellow sold the thing to begin with?
I will quiz my friend and see if he has tried anything new.
BTW, he has about 40+ years experiance with BP. He doesn't do computers or even own one to my knowledge. He reads everything in print he can get his hands on, but the USPS is slow. He will mostly call folks and talk to them on the phone for what ever reason he has.
Thanks for the input, the papaer patched throat did not even cross my mind. I am sure he said he had slugged it though. I will try and corner him and gat a bit more in depth.
Jeff

omgb
05-17-2007, 08:16 AM
OK, the PM idea is out. However, if he's interested, you can PM me and I'll pass on my phone number. I'd be willing to bet that the issue is the long large PP throat. This can be over come with larger diameter bullets. I had a case like this once before and I ended up using a bullet cast at .460 and seating it out at the second grease groove. This turned a rifle that shot like a scatter gun into a real tack driver so this may be the kind of direction your friend is going to have to move in.

fourarmed
05-17-2007, 10:36 AM
Jeff, Pete called me and I told him just about exactly what OMGB is saying. Do you know if he has tried the 25/5744/457125 load I suggested?

omgb
05-17-2007, 02:50 PM
I also have a .460 LBT mould and I could cast 30 or so of these bullets and send them along for the cost of shipping. They drop at .4605 using 20/1 and weight in at 520 grains. They have a large diameter bore riding nose that should help steer the bullet into the grooves better than the LYman 457125. That's not to say that the Lyman bullet isn't good, lots of matches have been won with it but its nose is set for a bore of about .457 or so and I can just about guaran-freeken-tee you that Sharps is going to have a free-bore a whole lot bigger than that.:(

Any way, I'm at your service if you need/want more help. I love the heck out of my Sharps and have played with it a whole lot more than my 22-250 gopher gun just because the Sharps is so tricky to wring out.

Iceman
05-17-2007, 05:55 PM
I am just throwing this out there for a fellow CB shooter that does not have a 'puter.
He picked up an early Sharps "old reliable" that was made in NY. He does not want to shoot BP unless he has too. He has several bullet weights and styles to choose from. Any of you that have a promising powder would be of help. I have pointed him to trail boss but he has not had any luck with it, so he says.
I myself think it may be a trigger issue on the accuracy part on this gun. I have shot my share of light triggers and this on is at about 2-3 ounces. I told him to maybe set it up for at least a pound and try that....................
Thanks in advance
Jeff

Try SR 4759, keep loads moderate, use NO filler. Old Lyman manuals have smokeless loads for .45-90, locate some of them. Did I mention keep loads moderate?

Iceman

bushka
05-17-2007, 06:24 PM
keyholing can be caused by undersized bullet noses in long heavy slugs where
the nose is undersized to the bore [not groove],and because most weight is forward in the nose of these designs,unless bore and groove match bullet perfectly and/or combined with the PP freebore,cause the bullet to SLUMP in the barrel.
insert the bullet in question into the muzzle nose first, and see if it wiggles,ideal is snug push fit or slight press fit,barely wiggle is okay,alot of wiggle NG.

JSH
05-17-2007, 06:34 PM
Thanks all.
Bob, I have talked to Pete, but the Sharps subject never came up. I am still looking for data for him, when I get the chance. I did run across some old Lyman data and copied that.
Did you tell him to pan lube some if they are dropping big enough? I imagine he will just order a sizing die. I also wonder if he sized the throat.
This is a whole different critter than a front stuffer for him.

OMGB, I will PM you for a phone # and pass it on to him.
Thanks again.
Jeff

Gussy
05-17-2007, 07:42 PM
You might also check for leading from previous owners. On the Shiloh site there has been mention of putting plain crisco in the bore overnight and then pushing a tight patch and it will clean and remove lead. Several swear by it and I plan on trying it soon to see if I'm getting everything out. I do sometimes get specs when cleaning, but have been using lead removal cloth when I see any.

Alloy can make a difference. Black powder has a lot more bump than smokeless. I would suggest a softer bullet to make up for it.
Gus