.30-30 again

[Rick R]

I guess the cartridge has been around long enough to be established. ;)

I've recently begun doing some casting and I've had decent results in my .45-70 Marlin GG and Ruger .308 M77 bolt gun with boolits I cast myself. Now to tackle feeding the lil Winchester M94.

Are the two flat point offerings by Lee decent boolits? and can I replace jacketed bullets in that rifle for typical eastern woodland deer hunting with either the 150gr or 170gr offering? Suggested velocity for shots at or under 100 yards?

I've been shooting the 125gr Lee .308 boolit with 2400 in the .30-30 and getting satisfactory results, now I'd like to move up to a heavier boolit possibly fueled by Varget, W748 or BL C2.

Thanks in advance,

[richhodg66]

"can I replace jacketed bullets in that rifle for typical eastern woodland deer hunting with either the 150gr or 170gr offering?"

Yes you can. I'm working on this now, killed my first "small bore" cast deer last year with a .30-30 and it worked fine. Now to perfect a load.

I used the Ideal 31141, but the Lee 170 looks very similar. I'm working with the Ranchdog bullet now, but may go back toe the 31141. From a terminal performance standpoint, I'm sure the Ranchdog is just as good, maybe better, but the 31141 seems to work better in some rifles with regards to seating out far enough to have the bullet base still in the neck (rifle in question is a .300 Savage). I'd kind of like one load in several .30-30s and one in several .308s, plus my .300 so standardizing on one may come down to that.

There are several members here who've been advising me on this, seems as long as you cast relatively soft, like 50/50 Pb/WW, have a flat nose or hollow point and run them around 1800 FPS, they work one deer at reasonable woods ranges.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Rick, I shoot both the Lees in my M94 and a 336. Both are open sights. The Winchester has its original sights, the Marlin wears Williams Fire Sights. Each gun shoots the 150 and 170 Lees into 3 inch groups without much particular care. I've run them from 1400 fps to 2100 or so. So, yes they are good shooting boolits. In fact, my 150 two cavity is getting pretty ragged and I've started babying it a bit. The 170 is not far behind it. I've just started working with the Saeco 315 and early results are encouraging.

I've had the good fortune to have some 2 inch at 100 yd groups coming out of the Marlin at the same time a fellow a couple of benches down was struggling to keep a scoped 270 on paper with wally world bullets. He didn't stay long nor cared to shoot my 336. I enjoyed it.

[Rick R]

Gents,

Thanks! I believe I'll order a 150gr mold this week as that's the J bullet weight I usually use in that rifle.

I bought this rifle when I was 15, nearly 40 years ago. It has worn a Williams rear peep for at least 30 of those and as long as my eyesight stays good that's the way I'll keep it. I do believe that a bit more range time is in order as it's a wonderful little rifle to shoot and carry.

:D

[northmn]

The beauty of the 30-30 is that it is about as easy a cast bullet rifle to load for as anything. I size bullets to about 310 for my Marlin with ballard rifling but the Lee's might work as cast. for ahunting bullet the alloy is more important than the design anyway. I haeat treat my bullet made about 1/2 WW 1/2 lead and then place the bases in a pan of water and anneal the noses with a propace torch. You only need to do this with the hunting bullets for sight in and general shooting use the heat treated ones. Gotten a few deer with this system, one at 140 paces from my tree. It had to be kicked over to dress as it went won on its stomach.
You can get good accuracy and load these at J bullet velocities. Lee molds work fine but I tend to prefer the heavier 170 for cast.

DP

[WyrTwister]

I suggest one of the Lee .312" molds .

God bless
Wyr

[Rick R]

Well Friday was payday and off to Midway went an order for among other things, one Lee 170gr FN mold set. After a bit of Internet surfing I'm leaning more toward the heavier boolet we'll see how that works out. Thanks for the info gents, I'll let you know how it goes.

[TXGunNut]

Good choice, sizer kit and gas checks will complement them well when finances allow.

[Rick R]

Good choice, sizer kit and gas checks will complement them well when finances allow.

I've been sizing/checking the 125gr boolit with a .309" RCBS sizer die in a 450 lube/sizer and it's worked well in this rifle so far. I'm hoping the 170gr will follow suit.

Any suggestions as to how fast to run them for deer and maybe hogs/bear?

Thanks again for the input.

[TXGunNut]

I'd start around 1600 fps with the 2400 powder and see how that works for you. .309 sounds a little small but if your rifle likes it we're all happy.

[Rick R]

TXgunnut,

If accuracy seems poor I'll be ordering some more sizing dies starting at .310".

Thanks for the input.

Now I'll just sit here quietly waiting for the big brown truck...

:)

[Greg B.]

Rick you can also try them unsized if they are not grosely oversized and hand lube them. I do this with my 45/70 and the rifle likes them. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a good place for info. and the Los Angeles Silouette Club has lots of stuff on casting.

Greg B.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have one load I load for 4 Marlins, 3 Winchesters, 1 Savage and 1 T/C contender (not all mine, darn it!) It is a 170gr Lee cast from ACCOWWs. Sized to .302 and patched up to .311 with 16# paper. Lubed with BAC and loaded over IMR 3031. Might not be the best in all those rifles but it is right up there with the best.

[Rick R]

Greg,

The Lee mold says it casts a .309 boolit, so since my RCBS .309" sizer seems to be a bit over sized I'll probably be pretty much there. ;)

PDawg,

I've never gotten around to paper patching, how difficult is it?

Rick

[Char-Gar]

I guess the cartridge has been around long enough to be established. ;)

I've recently begun doing some casting and I've had decent results in my .45-70 Marlin GG and Ruger .308 M77 bolt gun with boolits I cast myself. Now to tackle feeding the lil Winchester M94.

Are the two flat point offerings by Lee decent boolits? and can I replace jacketed bullets in that rifle for typical eastern woodland deer hunting with either the 150gr or 170gr offering? Suggested velocity for shots at or under 100 yards?

I've been shooting the 125gr Lee .308 boolit with 2400 in the .30-30 and getting satisfactory results, now I'd like to move up to a heavier boolit possibly fueled by Varget, W748 or BL C2.

Thanks in advance,

Here are my thoughts in response to your question;

1. Cast bullets (150-180 grains) in the 30-30 make a perfectly adequate deer rifle at ranges normaly associated with 30-30 leverguns. I call that a max range of 150 yards.
2. Bear in mind that you cannot count on bullet expansion, so use a flat nose bullet and be certain you can place the bullet in the right spot before pulling the trigger.
3. With a good GCFN cast bullet, you can shot a deer through and through and break any bones on the way with a velocity of 1.6K fps and above. No need to go full throttle as nothing will be accomplished by adding several hundred extra fps.
4. I don't use Lee moulds, but suspect they would work just fine. Lyman, SAECO, RCBS and other make moulds with GCFN designs for the 30-30.
5. My personal pick would be the RCBS 180 GCFN. It will cast out at 190 grains and feed through a 30-30 levergun very slick. I would favor a heavier bullet over a lighter bullet for hunting with the 30-30.

Best of luck in your casting, shooting and hunting.

[pdawg_shooter]

Greg,

The Lee mold says it casts a .309 boolit, so since my RCBS .309" sizer seems to be a bit over sized I'll probably be pretty much there. ;)

PDawg,

I've never gotten around to paper patching, how difficult is it?

Rick

Difficult? No, until your fingers get old and stiff like mine. It's not rocket science, people have been doing it for a couple hundred years now. It allows you to load at jacketed velocity with jacketed accuracy. Go to the smokeless paper patching forum and read the stickies. It is a bit "labor intensive" but the results are more than worth it, IMHO. I started patching in the early 70s and now I don't shoot any "naked" bullets through any of my rifles. Never any leading, the lead never touches the bore. You can shoot all day and all you have to clean out of the barrel is the powder fouling from the last shot. The patch will also polish the bore to compare with the finest custom barrel. Whats not to like?

[Kragshooter]

I cast the Lee 170gr, water dropped, sized .309,gas checked and use BLC-2, shoots great in my old 94. I have close to a 1,000 cast up and in a pinch will load them in the .308 as well. I used to use H-335 and liked it better and will go back to that now that my lgs carries it now.

[Rick R]

Well I cast up a couple dozen of the Lee 170gr boolits yesterday, air cooled using wheel weights. Ran them thru the .309" lubrisizer, with Javelina NRA lube and added a Hornady gas check. I then loaded them over a spread of 2400 from 15.1 to 18.2 grains and off to the range we went.

With loads up to 17 grains I was blessed with 1 1/2" - 2" groups at 50 yards. When I went over 17gr there weren't any pressure signs but groups opened up to over 5"! With the lighter loads there wasn't any leading to speak of. What was there came out with a couple passes with an Otis pull thru brush and then a couple dry patches. Not so with the +17 grain loads, the bore looked like I'd found a new lead mine. ;)

I did shoot one 17gr load into a row of gallon jugs of water at 25 yards. I got penetration into the fourth jug and pretty good expansion:

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i343/RickRose1/photo.jpg

Looks like a mushroom that the J bullet manufacturers would be proud of. I believe a different lube is in order if I want to push them faster, but as is they won't make a bad white tail deer load for normal Eastern hunting ranges.

(Remember that my load data works in my rifle but it's guaranteed to reduce your rifle and anyone in a 50 yard radius to atoms. Don't use load data from some goofball on the Internet) :)

[OverMax]

Winchester receivers aren't as strong as marlins or old savages. It would have been more prudent of you to slug you barrel before hand. Winchesters 94s can be finicky on boolit sizing, weight, and charges. But most seem to shoot better with heavier boolit's overall. Recipe. There are so many. 748 is one at the top of the list. Pick a charge, play with it some. Bingo, you'll get to where you want to be.

[Rick R]

Gentlemen,

Changed the lube to White Label 50/50 lube, sized the boolits to .309", loaded them in new Winchester brass over 17.2gr of 2400 and off to the range I went:

http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i343/RickRose1/photo-3.jpg

M-94 Winchester (my first center fire rifle 40 years ago) with Williams receiver sight off the bench. I fired this group after shooting about twenty rounds of the same load, last three of the evening.

No recoil, reasonably accurate, easy on my wallet, I believe I'm liking this.

:cbpour:

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, good job. Any idea what kind of velocity you're getting?

[Rick R]

I haven't run them over the Chrony yet, I was trying for the best accuracy and then next trip I'll drag it along and see how fast they're moving. Best guesstimate is 1,700-1,800 fps.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Yep run both the Lee 150 and 170 in my 30-30's and 300 Blk and also my Rem7400 '06. I wouldn't hesitate a second to use either on deer, hogs, bear or any other animal I might hunt. I use the 113 gr soup can on varmits in the 30-30.:grin:

[Philngruvy]

I use the 113 gr soup can on varmits in the 30-30.:grin:

Is this a Lee mold? maybe the C309-113F? This is not really what a soup can is. But I am intrigued by the lighter boolet for plinking/varmints. I would think that a true soup can would not feed in a lever action. Anyone ever try it?

[troy_mclure]

I've got the 150gr lee boolit you are referring to. I ordered the 170 gr, but my order was messed up.
I load it up at 2000fps for my gf. It's more than plenty for the average white tail(especially the lil ones down here) and my gf shoots it very well due to the very low recoil. With a red dot she is getting 3" - 4" groups off hand @ 50yds. Plenty for the area we will hunt.

[Junior1942]

Is this a Lee mold? maybe the C309-113F? This is not really what a soup can is. But I am intrigued by the lighter boolet for plinking/varmints. I would think that a true soup can would not feed in a lever action. Anyone ever try it?Yep, it's the C309-113F, and it feeds perfectly in both of my 94 Winchesters. Look near the end of this article: http://www.castbullet.com/reload/wc820.htm

[EdS]

I cast the Ideal 31141 from an alloy close to 16:1 (lead:tin), and have tried several popular powders including 5744, 4198, 4895, 335 and 748. Last year as the temperatures went from very hot to very cold, I decided to try Varget as it is said to have low temperature sensitivity. Well, it shot as well or better than any previous powders and gave good velocity as well. My son took a nice 4-point whitetail with this load in his Marlin 30A. BTW, I also tried Varget in my .35 Rem Marlin with outstanding accuracy and velocity. Good Hunting, Ed

[Rick R]

The Lee C309-113F casts at about 125gr for me and I am getting good groups with it loaded over @20 gr of 2400. I don't believe I'd shoot a deer with it but for small to medium game it would be a good choice. IMHO.

Made it to the range today and found that I'm getting around 1,800 fps with my 170gr Lee and 2400 with decent groups at 100 yards.

I believe I'm ready for deer season.

:)

[rintinglen]

Indeed you are, Rick.

I have shot thousands of rounds of 30-30 loaded with 17.5 grains of 2400, with boolets ranging from 90 grains up to 190 grains, all with excellent accuracy. (The 311-465 is simply astounding with this load.) If you can't kill a deer with that load, it's because you can't get close enough to see him.

good hunting.

[TXGunNut]

Group buy for NOE's 311041 going on now. Classic heavy 30-30 boolit.

[Abert Rim]

This has been a great thread. A nice old 94 just followed me home, so I am back in the .30WCF game and want to run nothing but cast in the old girl ...

[Rick R]

Abert,

Good deal! I'm having so much fun with mine that I' m looking for a second one as backup.