Mosin Nagant Rifles

[Beekeeper]

I do not think this can be considered to be a "troll" but will leave it up to a Moderator.

My question is what is the extreme facination with the Mosin Nagant?
I met a man the other day at a gun store that has 50 of them and is looking to buy more!
Said he is a collector of them.
Got almost beligerant when I said I had a couple of sporter Mosins.
Told me I was destroying history!!

The store owner knows I like Mausers and told me later that he (the mosin man) sporters Mausers all the time but will not touch a Mosin Nagant.

I do not understand!! There were 37 Million Mosin Nagants made, The remanants of the are used as fence posts by Russian farmers and the factory enventories are taken out , the crates bashed and contents strewn all over to rust. but here in the good ol US of A we worship them.

The same people that worship the Mosin Nagant would not think twice before making a sporter out of an Springfield or any other American rifle but threaten to go to blows with anyone that even removes the lousy red shellac from a Mosin. The famous red shellac was put on the Mosin Nagant whenever it was refurbished and reissued. It normally ment a new recruit and was a warning sign for seasoned soldiers to stay away from that person.


I'm confused.


beekeeper

[madsenshooter]

The only fascination for me was the price. Compared to my other milsurps, it's a poorly designed piece of junk. I think it will be the only one I ever have.

[bruce drake]

There are Shooters and there are Collectors.

I collect Arisakas and shoot Mausers.

To each their own.

Go enjoy a day at the range and forget about the guy.

Bruce

[Freightman]

With 50 he sounds more like a gather than a collector!

[skeet1]

I have a 91/30 and a Finn M39 and like both of them and think the the 91/30 is the best buy in a rifle you can make today because of the cost of the rifle and the ammo. On the other hand I striped the shellac from my 91/30 with acetone and put some Danish tung oil on it and to me it is a much better rifle because of it. I recognize that because of their numbers, at least the 91/30 refurb will not be a great rifle to collect as it was sporteried already by the Russians. Other Mosin Nagant's such as Finn marked or older M91's I believe are a very collectable item.

The Mosin Nagant is a very durable rifle, a unique / simple design that has been with us since the beginning of smokeless powder and deserves to be in everyone's collection, but 50 of them I think not.

Ken

[3006guns]

The Mosin action is one of the stiffest, toughest things I've ever tried to operate. All the designer had to do was increase the length of that stubby bolt handle.....perhaps 1/2".....and the operation would be a little easier.

The single stack magazine is a wonder of engineering, handling rimmed cartridges as well as it does............but it needs an "interrupter" in order to function and is the only bolt action military gun with one.

I actually like the long, slender, "pointy" feeling especially with the bayonet in place. Makes me identify with "old world europe" after a fashion.

The cartridge itself is ballistically pretty good and capable of performance near a 30-06. With a little fine tuning the guns can shoot very well.

What we have to remember is that the entire package was designed before the turn of the last century and that there was a lot of national pride involved. The rifle was not updated or improved mostly because it was too much trouble and expense to do so. The Finns are about the only ones who did any real improvent work.....but they still left that *@#$%^ stubby bolt handle!

The biggest attraction of the Mosin Nagant is the price. You can get a "high powered" surplus rifle in excellent shape for around $100. Since just about every Mauser/1903/Arisaka/etc. is now "collectible", people turn to something more affordable. If nothing else it has introduced more people to shooting, reloading and learning something about history......swelling the ranks of gun owners, so let's be grateful!

I have a couple of Mosin Nagants, two 91/30's and a Finn conversion......but that's enough. Fifty would crowd out all the other "rifles of the world" that have an equally interesting history.

[bowfin]

If the guy wants 50, fine. However, it is none of his business what YOU do with YOURS. I don't even like the term "Bubba-ed" to refer to a rifle that someone wanted to make their own. Just because someone carried it 50-100 years ago doesn't make it a religous relic, especially a run of the mill Mosin-Nagants.

[junkbug]

Bowfin is 100% on target. I like vintage military arms, and it saddens me slightly to see them hacked up. But I can only control the destiny of a few, for a short life-time. They are material posessions, and others will do with them what they will, for good or evil, when I am gone from this life. I will not judge others for how they treat theirs, as long as they do not endanger others safety.

I never liked the term "Bubba" either.

Sean

[EMC45]

I believe the owner of 7.62X54R.net has around 500 of them. You should see his gunroom.

[hporter]

Beekeeper,

I am glad you asked this question, because I have been puzzled by the phenomenon as well. I have read many words written in anger on other sites with regard to the modification of these rifles. I have one, I paid $99 for it. The shellac was so thick and ungainly I did not think twice about taking it off. I also, horror of horror, shot the metal work with flat black Krylon. Turned an ugly beater into a nice looking rifle in my opinion. It is a joy to shoot, and the trigger feels pretty good. To me it is just a piece of comblock hardware and is a tool just like any other.

At the same time, I have a Springfield 1903A3 that I give the white glove treatment to. I think I like admiring it as much as I like shooting it. I would not in a million years think about doing the same thing to my Springfield that I did the Mosin. But I don't think it has anything to do with the respective monetary values between the two. I think it is because I love our country, honor our history and in general I am a patriotic fellow. And I would never pass judgement on another for choosing to modify theirs. That would be their business, not mine.

Not sure that makes sense, but that is the conclusion I always come to.

[looseprojectile]

I can handle a representive piece I bought a Finn M39. Cherry condition.
Someone went to the trouble to install a scope mount and scope and a longer bolt handle.
Now I find that the scope and mount cost upward of five hundred dollars.
Ruined the gun. It weighs thirteen pounds.
I paid one seventy five. I don't feel upset because it has been altered.
I have sporterized several dozen military guns and I did it for profit.
I don't have the ambition to do that any more.
The only gun I have that I cringe when I see it is the Swede School carbine that someone cut the stock off just in front of the middle band. I patched it but it will always suffer.
Many of the military guns that have been sporterized are works of art and are to be admired for that. Some are pure junk. I have some of each.
I suspect that you would have to have fifty Moisins to have one of each make and model.


Life is good

[Hang Fire]

I have a 91/30 and a Finn M39 and like both of them and think the the 91/30 is the best buy in a rifle you can make today because of the cost of the rifle and the ammo. On the other hand I striped the shellac from my 91/30 with acetone and put some Danish tung oil on it and to me it is a much better rifle because of it. I recognize that because of their numbers, at least the 91/30 refurb will not be a great rifle to collect as it was sporteried already by the Russians. Other Mosin Nagant's such as Finn marked or older M91's I believe are a very collectable item.

The Mosin Nagant is a very durable rifle, a unique / simple design that has been with us since the beginning of smokeless powder and deserves to be in everyone's collection, but 50 of them I think not.

Ken

Given enough time, those 50 $100.00 rifles will be worth double or triple the price paid. I paid 89 bucks for my first SKS, wish I would have the had foresight to have bought 50 or a hundred at the time. How about those two for $100.00 Mas 1936 rifles in early 1990s, today only 20 years later, they are worth 5 or 6 times that.

[Hardcast416taylor]

There is a growing number of people that are sporterizing their M/M to either the standard factory chambering or to wildcat chamberings using the parent 54R case. There are a number of people that will modify the bolt handle to a more turned down and swept back style. There are stock makers that offer drop in sporter stocks like Boyd`s. Timney triggers offer a replacement adjustable trigger with a side safety. There are many different types and styles of scope bases to mount a long or standard eye relief scope available. In other words the M/N can have a great number of things done with it other than refinishing the wood and metal.Robert

[nwellons]

One problem with sporterizing is that many people do not know if they have a rare/valuable Mosin when they start work on it. It has often happened with Mosins (and others) because they were so cheap to start with. I have seen examples of Mosins that would have been quite valuable reduced to truck gun/parts gun prices because of sporterizing.

In the past, it was hard to research military surplus rifles rifle. It still may be now, in certain cases, but there are two major Mosin websites that are amazing in their thoroughness.

I collect them because I am interested in Russian history (got into that via USAF intelligence), like the prices of even the rarer ones, especially like the looks of the long M91 version, and love to shoot them; especially the fire-breathing carbines. It doesn't hurt that the ammo is cheap.

I don't just collect Mosins, I have some Russian Berdans, Nagant revolvers, a Russian contract Winchester and Russian contract Colt 1911.

[StratsMan]

It seems the MN's are the same position today that 1903 Springfields were in about 60 years ago... millions of them available on the surplus market.... far too many, so the gov't destroyed many more surplus rifles...

I do see historical interest in them.... The mid-war guns are so crude you can see the rush to get them out the door; that rush shows in the rough cuts in the metal.... On the other hand, I have a pre-war gun that was reconditioned and sent to Spain. Finished beautifully, it has Russian marks, Spanish arsenal marks, and the requisite "Made in USSR" from when it was imported to this country.... Interesting history, interesting collectible...

[Silvercreek Farmer]

One's enough for me, when all the cheap ammo is gone, it'll go on the wall to look at.

[smoked turkey]

I bought mine because the grandson has one and after I shot his I thought hey this thing is pretty accurate and kinda fun to shoot. I also think it is noteworthy that the 7.62x54R Russian is the oldest military cartridge out there. Says something for the cartridge. I purchased reloading stuff and reloadable brass and really like to load and shoot the reduced recoil & muzzleblast that my light cast loads produce. I haven't and won't shoot the steel cased loads because they are simply too robust for me to enjoy, and most are corrosive as well. Mine was $100 bucks and made the year I was born so that also was why I purchased this one. I don't plan to buy any others although I would like to find a nice Finn M39 at a low price.

[Buckshot]

..............Jim, the M-N was built from 1891 until the 50's by Russia. They were produced by 2 companies here in the U.S. and also by a French arsenal. There are several Russian versions. The Finns used them by default as they had several armed 'discussions' with the Russians over the years, so they gathered up a bunch of'em. Barrels for the Finns were produced by several sources. So you take the Russian versions, the Finn versions, and those built by the Chinese in later days and you could easily have a bunch of representative rilfes.

The only common Mosins yet available are the ubiquetous M91-30's. Big 5 has then right now for $119. I had an 01 FFL from 1982 until 2000. I still have a stack of catalogs that would bring a tear to your eye with the prices they were asking for rifles. If you could buy Argentine M1909's, M1891's (and their varients), Brazilian M98/08's, or M96 & M38's for less then $100 (and WELL less for some) why in the heck would you muck about with the clubby old Mosins?

http://www.fototime.com/78B412785D7FB08/standard.jpg

This catalog page (Century) lists from the top down, M1891's, then the "RARE" M91/30's, then Finn M27's, the Finn M39 and then the Finn M28/30 rifles. But then you had all these:

http://www.fototime.com/9ADFD0AF6A0FB91/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/172DA1814FFC656/standard.jpg

And these:

http://www.fototime.com/E463C4A2116F340/standard.jpg

The above was just once source, and not ALL that was available. I personally had no great desire to buy any Russian Mosin Nagants. Nor Italian Carcanos, or French rifles for that matter.

However it's all relative. At the time they were very inexpensive (comparatively). Even M1 Garand "shooters" were available for $250, M1 carbines were $150, and Springfields were also $250. In addition they had recievers and parts running out of their cracks. You could still buy sealed boxes of division level Springfield parts (no stocks, barrels or actions) that had a multitude of ALL the other parts, like 5 bolts, 10 each action screws, extrators, ejectors bands, pins, sears etc & etc for a pittance. Who in the world (I thought) would mess with a Mosin-Nagant? I was busy buying Mausers [smilie=s:

I own 5 of'em now. A M44, and 4 M91/30's one of which is a hex reciever but they were all purchased on a lark. One other reason was that surplus 7.62x54R was CHEEP, CHEEP, CHEEP!

All this stuff was coming in by the ship load. They had, and were practically giving away SMLE's and Swede Mausers. In fact they had so many Swedes that Kimber performed a huge massacre of them converting thousands into $300 sporters with those lovely See Through mounts!:veryconfu Likewise the SMLE. The market was swimming in them, so they began creating the MkV Jungle carbines, and if that wasn't enough they also dreamed up some SMLE models that never were, except from some fevered mind (like the MkVIII) carbine. Anything to get them to move.

So at one time when Swede Mausers were $59 (M96, dealer cost) and $79 (M38, dealer cost) and distributers had thousands upon thousands of'em. Every Tom, Dick and Harry had them on sale for less then $100 so why not buy one and sporterize it? Ditto M1909's, and etc, & etc. Except the M-N's didn't lend themselves to sporterizing. So you have untold MILLIONS of them floating around. Heck, even the Turkish Mausers are selling for more then the M-N's these days, but they'd all be private sales, like all the other Mauser types.

It's just me, and no negative to anyone whose enamoured of them, but I have no regrets as to not obtaining any Mosin variants. I DO wish now that I'd bought a couple more Springfields, and maybe a boxcar load of M96 Swedes when they were dealer priced at $59 per. But it's all relative to the time. I could afford maybe one $100 purchase a month back then. So I have to be happy with the 80+ rifles I had managed to aquire in the meantime. :shock:

Believe it or not but several years ago I traded a like new M38 Swede (Huskavarna) straight across to a guy for a Pedersoli Sharps Business rifle. He wanted the Husky, and I needed a Sharps in 45-70. Yup, wished I'd bought a boxcar load!

...............Buckshot

[Me not you]

The Moisin Nagant rifle is strong, safe, reliable, uses a powerful cartridge and is fairly accurate. These are all very important attributes.

The bolt is a little clunky to operate, but works "well enough". The cartridge provides adequate performance for any reasonable use, from target shooting to hunting. They handle fairly well plus rifles and ammunition are inexpensive.

In sum, they are solid, functional, inexpensive rifles that will do whatever is reasonably needed. I've owned and used a couple and grew fond of them.
There are plenty of better rifles depending on what someone might want to use them for. In any event, the M91 Moisin Nagant has turned out to be a very good utility rifle in my experience, used as is.

[kenyerian]

My first one was a gift. Back in the 90's a friend of mine bought a case of them and gave me the last one. my son fell in love with it becasue it was accurate, cheap to shoot and fun.

[1Shirt]

Ya know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder------or so they say. I think the 91 is an ugly duckling, but the 38 has a pretty fair amount of appeal. KCSO does a real nice job of bolt modification that makes a MN much easier to operate, and he is reasonable. Bought both of mine for about $90.00 each, and note that they are already going up in price. With the two I have, I need no more. As to the bayonet mod, think I can pass on that one, as to me it is really ugly, and can't think of any reason at my age why I would charge anything with a pig sticker.
1Shirt!:coffee: