Question for the Expert Swagers here....

[Got-R-Did]

Wound up in a debate on another forum about the likelyhood of bullets with exposed lead tips and bases popping the cores out of the bore leaving the jacket lodged in the barrel upon firing. Sounds highly improbable with the exception of say low propellant charges with a Speer .30 cal Plinker, Speer JHP/JSP jacketed SWC series of bullets (again loading below recommended velocities) or the old Hornady half-jacket .30 Carbine bullets. That is why they have a specific loading data section for them in the proprietary load manuals from those Mfgs.
The actual cautionary posts were directly related to the tips of some Govt. issue M2 Ball ammo with the tips filed to expose the lead core (sort of a poor man's soft point).
I guess I'm skeptical about this occurring at the normal operating pressures (50K-55K PSI) of the M2 Ball ammo in a .30-06 since Wolf has been building bullets with this configuration for countless years without any problems.
My specific question for our esteemed Congtributors here is at what pressure does soft lead become plastic enough to extrude? I assume that the pressure would have to be over a much longer time period than the micro-seconds long impulse typically associated with propelling a bullet down a bore.
Your Thoughts?
Cheers, and Many Thanks in advance for your input.
Got-R-Did.

[algunjunkie]

Little hole on the bottom, walls of the ogive bending in creating a massive shoulder for the lead to rest or push against. Don't think the lead is coming out.

[Lizard333]

Hearsay. I've never heard of it actually happening.

[Utah Shooter]

Hearsay. I've never heard of it actually happening.

Neither have I. If you are truely worried get some type of core bonding agent.

[runfiverun]

i recall some stories like that also.
something about modified jaxkets.
which would yake away any mechanical lock to the lead.
you could push the lead out of the jaxket leaving it behind, but anything holding the core in would keep it there.
i do a 1/2" long tubing jaxket on a 190 gr boolit with just a rolled over lock at the mouth and base of the jaxket,and have never lost one core till it hit dirt and expanded the jaxket.
a slight bit of flux in the jaxket would really stop that too,but a deer don't cause separation even through bone so i don't worry about it.

[Reload3006]

I make tubing jackets they have a small hole in the base. I make rebated boat tails and lead tipped bullets.... I have made and fired thousands of these never not even once have I had a jacket core separation in the bore of my fire arm. Never Ever not even once I know several People who have swaged for Many more years than I have They too have NEVER EVER NOT EVEN ONCE had a jacket core separation in their bores. This IS a myth its never happened and is hyped by Who? Probably commercial bullet makers to scare off competition would be my guess. If you think about it and apply the physics its very very doubtful that this is even a probability of occurring.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have seen evidence of the core seperating befor it hit the target when using half jacket semi wadcutters. But I have not had any left in the barrel. I have also had little holes in the target about the size of a primer. No idea what caused this.[smilie=1:

[michiganvet]

I have an aluminum block with holes drilled into it. Fill the holes with jackets, put in a little flux, drop in swaged cores that have the lube cleaned off. Heat on stove top until the cores melt. Let cool, run into core seating die then form the points. Even if the core doesn't bond everywhere the jackets won't come off on impact.

[garym1a2]

Since expanding gases are pushing the bullet from the bottom I do not see how that is possible. The muzzle blast shows a lot of force exists.

[Sasquatch-1]

I have an aluminum block with holes drilled into it. Fill the holes with jackets, put in a little flux, drop in swaged cores that have the lube cleaned off. Heat on stove top until the cores melt. Let cool, run into core seating die then form the points. Even if the core doesn't bond everywhere the jackets won't come off on impact.

Got any picture of the aluminun block?

[a.squibload]

I haven't shot many of 'em but I have swaged pistol boolits from empty brass
without the primers in the pockets. None have separated so far. 'Course
primer flash hole is tiny. Discussed in other threads too if you wanna search.

[Wolftracker]

Not likely to happen. The Ogive should hold things together long enough to get the bullet out of the barrel. I experimented with 338's using 223 cases cut off at the neck and ahead of the case head, dropped in a gas check to block the base. Made a darn nice looking brass bullet that shot as straight as a politician. Hit everything but the target. That one might have separated if I hadn't put the gas check in the base I suppose.

[Grandpas50AE]

Hearsay. I've never heard of it actually happening.

+1. I shoot .223 and .300WM all the time at over 3000 fps; never had any such thing even attemp to happen, even with the soft points I always make.

[midnight]

Sasquatch: I think I'm going to make one of those aluminum blocks. I bought a bunch of blocks on evilbay. If you do a search for "fortal" you will get a guy near Kenosha,WI who sells them. They all vary in size and thickness. Look til you find the dimensions you want. I used them to make heaters for my lubesizers so exact dimensions weren't important. I just wanted ¾ to 1 in thick & about 6x6. I'l have to get more.

Bob

[WD2A7X3]

The story I heard was that during WW2 or WW1 some statestide shooters were using military ball ammo for hunting, but to stop over penetration they would remove the bullet then seat it in backwards. Basiclly exposing the open lead base of the bullet as the new tip.

This would make the most sense since you would then have a possibility of the drag created by the jacket being more then the bond the lead core has and it 'slipping' out the front.

But I also read that some ammo manufactures have done testing by lodging empty jackets in the barrel then firing another round, and the second round just pushes the empty jacket out.

[Sasquatch-1]

Sasquatch: I think I'm going to make one of those aluminum blocks. I bought a bunch of blocks on evilbay. If you do a search for "fortal" you will get a guy near Kenosha,WI who sells them. They all vary in size and thickness. Look til you find the dimensions you want. I used them to make heaters for my lubesizers so exact dimensions weren't important. I just wanted ¾ to 1 in thick & about 6x6. I'l have to get more.

Bob

Actually, I was interested in seeing a picture of the drilled out block that "michiganvet" was talking about.

[marten]

Actually, I was interested in seeing a picture of the drilled out block that "michiganvet" was talking about.

Like this?
(put a few scrap cases in for perspective)

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/SolderBlock-smSmall.jpg

[BT Sniper]

Marten,

Check out this thread!

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2421

With just a little more work with your blocks you could have a very usesfull way to easly drop the cores into the jackets without doing them one by one by hand.

See what you think.

Nice work, good shooting and swage on!

BT

[marten]

Marten,

Check out this thread!

http://www.saubier.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2421

With just a little more work with your blocks you could have a very usesfull way to easly drop the cores into the jackets without doing them one by one by hand.

See what you think.

Nice work, good shooting and swage on!

BT

Yeah seen it BT, thanks.
Not too decrepit that I cannot do it by hand, only wanted to experiment with core bonding.

[BT Sniper]

Ahh yes! Somthing to hold eveything when bonding cores. I have experimented with the same thing. For that task what you have there is perfect.

Good shooting and Swage On!

BT

[Sasquatch-1]

Like this?
(put a few scrap cases in for perspective)

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac356/j0e_bl0ggs/DieSet/SolderBlock-smSmall.jpg

So, you take this and place it on the stove and it anneals the case and melts the core?

How do you remove it from the heat source? Do you use something on the nature of welding gloves?

[marten]

So, you take this and place it on the stove and it anneals the case and melts the core?

How do you remove it from the heat source? Do you use something on the nature of welding gloves?

I use it in a smallish kiln/furnace/oven and have a 'flipper' that will slide underneath!

[Got-R-Did]

Thank You All for your input, I just could not fathom the proposed scenario. WolfTracker, you read my mind.
This thread has taken a turn for the better as well with Forum Members sharing knowledge.
I love it here!
Cheers,
Got-R-Did.