Garand re-importation moving forward

[Katya Mullethov]

http://www.tester.senate.gov/Newsroom/pr_060512_m1_garand.cfm

Tuesday, June 5, 2012
(U.S. SENATE) – More Montana gun collectors will soon be able to own an important piece of firearms’ history, Senator Jon Tester announced today.

The M1 Garand rifle is an American-made firearm used by U.S. forces in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. South Korea has been trying to sell up to 87,000 surplus M1s back to the United States, but the State Department initially blocked re-importation of the firearms over safety concerns.

Tester said the department’s reasoning didn’t make sense, noting that the M1 Garand is legal in the United States. Under pressure from Tester, the State Department recently reversed its decision and will now consider South Korea’s request once an importer is selected.

“From World War II to Korea and Vietnam, M1 Garand rifles played a crucial role in history,” Tester said. “These American-made firearms will always be valued as collector’s items, and law-abiding Americans have the right to keep them under our Constitution’s Second Amendment. I’m glad the State Department listened to my concerns and those of America’s gun collectors.”

After the State Department blocked the rifle’s sale in 2010, Tester proceeded to introduce legislation to allow American-made guns that were given or sold to a foreign government to be re-imported and sold in the U.S. without government interference.

In light of the State Department’s news, Tester said he expects the department to work closely with the Government of South Korea to deliver the firearms to U.S. collectors. The rifles will be sold in the U.S. through the Civilian Marksmanship Program, a non-profit organization that provides surplus firearms to qualified buyers.

Tester, Chairman of the Congressional Sportsmen’s Caucus, recently led the Senate in blocking government funding from being used to advance the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty.


Dont mess around and let the confidential informants snap them all up .

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-EGAeKJSgd2g/TifJGacn1xI/AAAAAAAAIXg/q_jQdaHQXh0/s1600/Marina-Armada-61.jpg

[ktw]

After the State Department blocked the rifle’s sale in 2010, Tester proceeded to introduce legislation to allow American-made guns that were given or sold to a foreign government to be re-imported and sold in the U.S. without government interference.

In light of the State Department’s news, Tester said he expects the department to work closely with the Government of South Korea to deliver the firearms to U.S. collectors. The rifles will be sold in the U.S. through the Civilian Marksmanship Program, a non-profit organization that provides surplus firearms to qualified buyers.


That is not how the CMP works. The CMP doesn't import firearms, or buy them from an importer, they only sell firearms made surplus by the US military.

Allowing Korea to import them to the US guarantees that they won't be going to the CMP and that they will be marked with a new import stamp.

-ktw

[Brotherbadger]

I've always wanted a Garand, hopefully we can bring these back into the hands of some Americans.

[scb]

The last ones that came in that were marked BlueSky that I saw were absolute junk. One that came into the shop, if you locked the action open, grabbed it by the gas cylinder and shook it, the bolt would disconnect from the op rod. Hopefully they didn't buy the best ones first and whats left is the"junk". Guys would bring them in and would want to know what it would cost to fix them. At the time it was more than what a new one from Springfield Armory would cost.
Take some time to read this. See what your getting into.
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16687

[Ed in North Texas]

It would be good if Tester didn't give up on his bill, which would over-ride the ban on importing the M1 Carbines, which have still not been approved by this anti-gun Administration.

Ed

[Artful]

I have a Bluesky and the original barrel was worn at the muzzle (due to over cleaning with poor technique) so bad it wouldn't keep it on a 10" paper plate at 50 yards - but but a new barrel on it and all is good to go again. Don't give up on them old vet's if they can get back in country.

[ShooterAZ]

Orest Michaels (CEO of CMP) denies that this is true. We shall see.

[JIMinPHX]

I don't understand how that picture relates to the Garand import.

That aside, I hope that the import does go through. I would love to get a Garand to fool around with if the price comes down enough.

[Ed in North Texas]

I don't understand how that picture relates to the Garand import.
snip

Pointing out to Dear Leader's/Hillary's State Department that M1 Garands and Carbines are not "favorites" of the cartels. gang bangers and other assorted criminals? Best I could do, not being the OP.

Ed

[MtGun44]

"denies that this is true. . " UH, exactly what is he denying? That the importation
is moving ahead, that the guns are beat to heck, that the barrels are mostly ruined, or
what?

Bill

[Longwood]

Wow!!!
Look at all of those guns.
I see at least two that I would like to own.

[oldsgm]

I thought that was a picture of the weekly shipment into Mexico from the Fast and Furious Folks at ATF.

[Artful]

I thought that was a picture of the weekly shipment into Mexico from the Fast and Furious Folks at ATF.

:veryconfu

Eric Holder says never happened - right

Who's selling them RPG's I can't find any at local shops or gun shows I go to in AZ

[Ed in North Texas]

:veryconfu

Eric Holder says never happened - right

Who's selling them RPG's I can't find any at local shops or gun shows I go to in AZ

I can't find MG-34s either.

Ed

[ShooterAZ]

"denies that this is true. . " UH, exactly what is he denying? That the importation
is moving ahead, that the guns are beat to heck, that the barrels are mostly ruined, or
what?

Bill

Orest is denying that the rifles will be imported and sold through the CMP as the article states.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

A friend and I bought one Garand each about two years ago through CMP. It was simple, and the rifles -- which are not of matching parts -- easily ring the 300 yard gong at the Los Alamos Sportsmans Club Range. And, this is with eyes of the 6-decade range.

However the Garands from South Korea re-enter the availability of American rifleman, I hope it happens.

[MtGun44]

ShooterAZ - Thanks. Since this is not at all how CMP has ever obtained guns, I am sure
that this part is inaccurate, too.

Bill

[1Shirt]

Well over 50 years ago, I started my military career with an issue Garand (a Rem).
Sweet rifle, and it broke my heart to turn it in when I was discharged the first time. It was not a re-assembled from parts rifle, but an as it came from the factory, and shot better than the shooter. The CMP rifles I have seen that shooters on the range have gotten in the past 4-5 years are poor relatives to the one I turned back in to Uncle. Have shot a couple that did shoot fairly well, but looked bad to worse. These are to me more pricy than I am willing to pay for the sake of nastalga, so will have fond memories of times past and my first issue Garand.
1Shirt!

[MtGun44]

Garand - A Rem................Huh?

Did Remington ever make Garands??? Never heard of this. Of course, there
are a lot of things I've never heard of.

Bill

[rmcc]

Remington did produce some National Match op rods in 1966. As far as I know (may not be very far!!) Remington had no association with the M1 Garand other than the op rods. Scott Duff's books would be the definitive answer on that one.

Rich

[bob208]

springfield, winchester, h&r and international harvester were the only companies to make
m1's.

i remember in the 60'70's the only way to get a m1 was through the dcm or pay an out rageious price to some one that had. and if they put some n.m parts on it the price went up. the only way to get one a working man could aford was to buy a reweld.

after reading roy dunlaps book i got a reweld. shot out 2 barrels on it it now has a .308 barrel.

[Ed in North Texas]

Garand - A Rem................Huh?

Did Remington ever make Garands??? Never heard of this. Of course, there
are a lot of things I've never heard of.

Bill

Not to mention that in the Army there was no way anybody kept the same rifle through their entire enlistment/2 years of draft service. Every time you moved unit (basic, maybe AIT, at least one unit after that) you drew a different weapon. I can't speak for any experience with Navy, Marines or Air Force - though I suspect one didn't go from basic to ETS with one weapon issued to you in any of these services either.

Ed

[Artful]

springfield, winchester, h&r and international harvester were the only companies to make m1's.


http://www.scott-duff.com/WhoHowManyWhen.htm

Pre WWII and during WW2
Combined production for Springfield and Winchester during World War II was 4,040,802 rifles.

Japanese Garand copy
http://www.armoryblog.com/firearms/rifles/japanese-garand-semiauto-rifle/

Post WW2
Springfield Armory
International Harvester Co.
Harrington & Richardson Arms Co.

Beretta and Breda Production
During the 1950s, Beretta produced Garands in Italy at the behest of NATO, by having the tooling used by Winchester during World War II shipped to them by the U.S. government.
These rifles were designated Model 1952 in Italy, and eventually led to variants of their own, the best known of these being the BM59 series.

We sent the tooling/equipment Winchester used to make Garands during WW II, our gift to the Italians to help them rebuild after the war. So they have a history too.
Beretta did receive the tooling from the War Department that once was loaned to Winchester (along with a full set of drawings, gauges, and the production flowcharts)
but made their own tooling for quicker production and tighter tolerances I was informed.

CHINA
http://tgfblog.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/m1-garand-made-in-china/


M1 Garand… Made in China?
June 11, 2010 by ryochiji
I was recently in Beijing, and visited the Military Museum of the People’s Revolution of China. In addition to wonderfully delightful propaganda, the museum includes an impressive array of weaponry from around the world, including many US and Japanese arms “liberated” by the People’s Liberation Army over the course of the past several decades. Their collection of modern small arms is quite impressive, perhaps second only to the NRA’s National Firearms Museum (at least, that I’ve seen).

One particular item, though, caught my attention. It was an M1 Garand, but the plaque next to the rifle said it was made in China. What? I looked carefully, and noticed unusual markings on the oprod and gas cylinder. That made me wonder what was on the receiver, so I got my camera up as high as I could to get a shot at the receiver heel, and here’s what I got:

Century International Arms is selling one - Quality is spotty from my understanding
http://www.fulton-armory.com/faqs/M1G-FAQs/CAI-TI.htm

Parts were made by other companies
Marlin made barrels
Remington OP ROD's
Hart made trigger housings for HRA, and I believe trigger guards as well.
Garand Gas Cylinder Lock Screw "P and hex". Made by Elastic Stop Nut Co, NJ,
Garand Gas Cylinder Lock Screw "P and X" Industrial Tool and Die
Adell industries follower rod.
Clip Latch, CM marked.
CM Marked Rear Sight Base

At a High Power Match I saw a mishmash of parts shooting pretty good
USGI stock
VAR (danish) barrel
Lithgow (Aussie) receiver,
West German bolt,
Howa (Japanese) op rod,
TI (Tiawanese) safety
Korean Gas cylinder
balance was a mix of Italian parts.

Now Remington made a select-fire conversion for the M1 Garand, but never manufactured a entire Garand.

Variants: (from Wikipedia)
T22 N/A M1 Garand variant; select-fire conversion by Remington, magazine-fed
T22E1 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences
T22E2 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences
T22E3 N/A T22 variant; unknown differences; uses T27 fire control
T27 N/A Remington select-fire field conversion for M1 Garand; ability to convert issue M1 Garands to select-fire rifles; fire control setup used in T22E3

[Artful]

http://www.guns.com/2013/06/11/korean-m1s-still-in-limbo-new-bill-introduced-to-prevent-state-department-from-blocking-imports/


Wyoming Rep. Cynthia Lummis (R) is hard at work to reverse the decision made to block the re-importation of thousands of U.S.-made M1 Garands and M1 Carbines that were given to the South Korean military during the war and have since been taken out of service.

The Obama administration had originally green-lit the move to bring these collectible, American-made guns back home, then quickly turned around on their position, preventing their import in 2010.

Although Lummis has in the past fought to get some of these firearms into private hands, complications between the American importers, the South Korean ministry of defense and the administration have held back the importation of these guns.

The Star-Tribune reported that “Because the guns were given to South Korea during the war, State Department permission is required, according to ATF guidelines.”

But others suggest the reasons are more sinister than simply bureaucracy. “There is a fear of average people owning guns,” said Erich Pratt, director of communications for Gun Owners of America. “The administration has been in many ways trying to slice and dice our rights from us. This was another attempt at doing so.”

In June of last year Lummis and Sen. Jon Tester (D-Mont.) passed legislation that would prevent the Department of State from interfering with the transfer of 87,000 of the Korean guns. This new bill — the “Collectible Firearms Protection Act” — goes much further than that, preventing the Department of State from interfering with the re-importation of any of these military surplus firearms, so long as they are American-made “curios and relics.”

South Korea has some 800,000 M1 Garands and Carbines, mostly Garands.

“The import restriction is the result of a complex set of federal laws. In 1984, Congress enacted legislation that allows the importation of military surplus “curio or relic” firearms. The provision was later found to only cover firearms of foreign origin because another law, the Arms Export Control Act, prohibits the importation of arms that were originally manufactured in the United States and furnished to a foreign government,” the NRA-ILA explained.

“In 1988, Congress amended the Arms Export Control Act to specifically allow for the importation of U.S.-origin ‘curio or relic firearms,’ but various administrations have used certain requirements under that law to continue to block those imports.”

Lummis introduced H.R. 2247 this week, which would prevent the State Department from interfering with the importation of any “curio and relic” firearms that were made in the U.S., including all of the South Korean military surplus rifles and carbines.

These guns would then be sold as any other firearms, through regular firearm importers and through FFLs to individuals who submit to a background check.

“It’s disappointing that legislation is even necessary to allow U.S. citizens to access perfectly legal and regulated firearms, in this case storied, U.S.-made rifles that are pieces of U.S. military history,” Lummis said in a press release.

“This is a political stunt on the part of the State Department, pure and simple, while denying the exercise of Second Amendment rights by law-abiding citizens, firearm collectors, and competitive marksman. The State Department has no business blocking domestic firearm ownership; they are way out of bounds and my legislation will put them back in their place,” she continued.

These M1 Garands and Carbines are not functionally different than any currently in production in the U.S., and are just as legal to own. Hopefully this bill will finally be what it takes to get these guns out of mothballs and into the hands of shooters and collectors.

Previously the Obama administration blocked these guns from being re-imported because they could be used to commit crimes.

[Ed in North Texas]

That is not how the CMP works. The CMP doesn't import firearms, or buy them from an importer, they only sell firearms made surplus by the US military.

That isn't quite correct. As an example, CMP sold M1s which were returned from Denmark. IIRC those weapons which were "loaned" to a foreign government and returned to the US government were eligible to be sold by the CMP.

Allowing Korea to import them to the US guarantees that they won't be going to the CMP and that they will be marked with a new import stamp.

-ktw

The latter is true. I might be mistaken, but IIRC, South Korea eventually paid for the rifles and they have no requirement to return them to the US government. Too bad so far the M1 Carbines are still blocked. Maybe when Dear Leader is gone (if they don't scrap them before then)?

[jonk]

I would still like to see evidence and not just heresay that said rifles were purchased outright by South Korea, and hence eligible to be sold through importers, and are not US taxpayer/government property on Lend-Lease, which would be send back to the US government and then on to CMP (like the Greeks and Germans did for instance).

[prsman23]

I would still like to see evidence and not just heresay that said rifles were purchased outright by South Korea, and hence eligible to be sold through importers, and are not US taxpayer/government property on Lend-Lease, which would be send back to the US government and then on to CMP (like the Greeks and Germans did for instance).

I'd have to agree with this. Considering the writer said the cmp would sell them (if imported). Who knows where this bozo got his info.

[Dean D.]

If you really want to know if these rifles will be coming to the CMP go over to their forum and read what's posted there. I'd highly advise you not to post a new topic on the subject, it will not be received well by the regular members. FWIW, Orest (CEO of CMP) has already stated emphatically that the CMP will not be receiving any of these rifles if they are allowed back into this country. Good enough answer for me.

[30calflash]

I remember the high numbers on garands in the late 70's also. $600 plus at gunshows, not matching, some with much wear, externally at least. Most were from the DCM as guys would buy them and roll them quickly, making some $400+ on the deal.

I ended up with a new commercial SA rifle for $625 IIRC, shoots well and nary a problem. SA built them until the imports pretty much killed off the demand for a new one from them.




springfield, winchester, h&r and international harvester were the only companies to make
m1's.

i remember in the 60'70's the only way to get a m1 was through the dcm or pay an out rageious price to some one that had. and if they put some n.m parts on it the price went up. the only way to get one a working man could aford was to buy a reweld.

after reading roy dunlaps book i got a reweld. shot out 2 barrels on it it now has a .308 barrel.

[smokeywolf]

I would really love to have a Garand, even if its a basket case.

This is what my father did with a basket case Garand back in the 1950s.

7477774778

I remember watching him do the checkering on that stock.

smokeywolf

[Artful]

smokeywolf - your dad was very talented - what happened to that Garand?

[smokeywolf]

Artful,
For him, the project was everything. Once completed, he would frequently lose interest.
The article in Gun World was written in Sept. '61; about a year and a half after he finished the Garand. He worked on the Garand off and on for the better part of seven years.
Immediately following the publication of the Nov-Dec '61 Gun World, he traded the Garand for 3 Winchesters. I know one was a model '86 40-65, another was I think either a model '76 45-60 or a model 71, and I can't remember what the 3rd was.
I don't actually know the identity of the owner of THE GREATEST GARAND now. But I do know the guy (son of the guy my dad traded the Garand to) who sold the Garand to it's present owner.

Back in the 50s the gun culture was a much smaller world. Tommy Bish was the guy who wrote the article on the Garand. Tommy was close friends with George and Patty Madis. My father became acquainted with George in the late 50s I think through the owner of a gun shop in the San Fernando Valley. I still trade emails with Pat Madis from time to time. She is extremely affable.

smokeywolf

[Nickle]

I've got a 1943 vintage Wimchester Garand with a VAR barrel. Danish DCM gun.