speed loading a BP revolver - any ideas for a newbie?

[bubbapug1]

I am new to the BP game and enjoy it immensly, but I would like to speed up the loading process a bit.

I was wondering what some of you do to decrease loading time? I am thinking about weighing out the powder into small tubes which I can rip when needed and pour powder into the cylinder without measuring.

I was going to make the small cylinders out of cigarette rolling papers. If I saturate them on one end with some fine BP do I even need to rip them?

Could I just toss them in BP dusted side and ram them home?

Any other tricks of the trade to decreasing load times?

Also, I was lucky enough to buy this off the board last week. It showed up today and I realized I would get severe heartburn ruining the finish and detail on the cylinder of this thing...

I think I need to order a plain cylinder for this one....Can I buy a spare and just drop it in or are there timing issues or compatability problems I might run into?

Its a Navy 1851 Pietta. Its much more solid than the plain one I bought a few weeks ago.

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[waksupi]

Do it like the old timers. Get some spare cylinders!

[.22-10-45]

Hello, bubbapug1. Back when I was shooting my Navy Arms 1851 .36, I made up combustable paper ctgs. Made up tapered mandrils for case forming from wood & metal..these tapered cases, like the originals, will break open when ramming home. Just buy some Saltpeter & make up a super-saturated solution (undesolved S.P. in bottom of container). I used both thin tracing paper & cig. papers. Ball was held in mouth with very light glue application.
The British had their own "speed loading"..the "wadded ball" These were used in some of the earliest Adams double-action percussion revolvers. The ball or conical was cast with a short sharp pointed tang on it's base. A felt wad..probably lubricated..was speared onto this tang & point bent over to hold in place.
These were fast..being merely thumb-pressed into cyl. mouths. The only drawback was with cavalry..the constant jogging would loosen loads & trooper would end up with holster full of loose powder & bullets..and an empty revolver!
Colt maintained these were inferior due to velocity loss, as compared to his tight fitted bullets. In any case, later Adams, Tranter, and Webleys, etc. were equiped with side mounted loading levers.
I never tried making wadded bullets..but would be an interesting project. Best of luck!

[linotype]

First, that is one fine looking revolver! Wow.
Good advice on spare cylinders, which is the next best thing to “spare mag” or speed loader.
On the speed loading question, sure you can make paper cartridges and load up quicker. Works well.
Or, you can take the time to enjoy loading the cap and ball, and shoot a a more leisurely pace.

Look at it as either pond fishing with a net and a M-80, or with a light weight spin casting fishing rod.
Sure one way is faster, but isn't life a bit too busy these days?
Take your time, measure the right amount of powder, seat those round balls and wadding or cylinder grease, put on a cap, take careful aim and put it on target.
Give some thought about how wars were fought with these revolvers, and what it meant to make every shot count when loading took so long. Those were not the days of full magazine semi-auto gun play.
A lot of history behind those old cap and ball guns. And a lot of fun in the mean time.

[Omnivore]

Beautiful six shooter you have there! I see it's the foe-tee-foe "Navy", what with the rebated cylinder and notched frame of the '60 Army.

The Colts aren't really well suited to swapping cylinders, as you still have to knock out the wedge, but the Remington 1858 "New Model" (Army or Navy) (both readily available) are made for cylinder swapping. It's very fast-- faster than reloading a Peacemaker. The one drawback to using spare cylinders, for me, is cleaning twelve nipples, or eighteen, is a LOT more work than cleaning six. Spare cylinders for a Remington would have been a possible life saver in battle, but for the casual shooter, or for me at least, I tend to prefer using one cylinder unless I'm demonstrating the swap-out feature to a new percussion revolver shooter.

One reason to do it anyway is that it is so fast (with a Remington) to swap, that I often change out for another cylinder even if it's empty, so I can quickly load a cold cylinder instead of the hot one I just emptied. That way I can load directly from the hand grenade (I mean powder flask) without the concern of blowing my hand apart.

Consumeable paper cartridges are a bit faster than loading loose powder, but they make me a little nervous for the possibility of a hot ember in the chamber igniting the cart while I'm ramming it home (I mean if you're really trying to make a race gun out of your smokewagon). They were used in large quantities "back in the day" so they do represent a historical reality. If you do some searching, you'll find quite a bit of information on them, what loads were used, how they were packaged and so on. My Colt's "Navy" 44 cal pistol doesn't take paper cartridges very well, so I tend to use them mostly in the Remington if at all. I have used powder-only cartridges in the Colt's, to speed up loading slightly, but I'm not especially fond of them. Mostly they are a fun curiosity or an interesting demo.

[Geraldo]

Do it like the old timers. Get some spare cylinders!

Actually they carried spare pistols back in the day. A couple on your belt, one or two in pommel holsters, and you're good to go.

I do find spare cylinders to be useful at the range with my Remingtons.

[Mk42gunner]

Actually they carried spare pistols back in the day. A couple on your belt, one or two in pommel holsters, and you're good to go.

I do find spare cylinders to be useful at the range with my Remingtons.

I think it was a lot more comon to carry complete revolvers than it was to carry spare cylinders, unless there were broken guns around. To be right a cylinder would need to be fitted to the gun.

I haven't seen many original revolvers with multiple cylinders for sale. I wonder if this idea didn't get started by one of the dime novelist's like Ned Buntline???

I have read many accounts of Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers carrying four to eight revlovers on their person and horse. I am surprised that there aren't more lanyard rings on cap and ball revolvers.

To me speed loading and C&B guns do not even belong in the same sentence.

Robert

[Hellgate]

I just lay out 6 balls & 6 wads on the loading table (or inverted lid of my shooting box). Then from a flask with a 20 or 30 grain spout I fill all 6 chambers, wad all 6 chambers and ram all six balls while holding the muzzle up. It doesn't take that much time and as others said you get an appreciation for history while doing it. Keep in mind that just before the advent of the revolver (a SIX(!) shooter) everyone carried a single shot pistol and a fighting knife (Bowie, etc.). The revolver was a six fold technological advance of firepower so fast loading was not a big issue. As others have said, if you need more/faster shooting then carry a second or more guns which is a nice excuse to buy more. Works for me.

[KCSO]

Nitrate some rolling papers and make paper ctgs if you are in a big hurry. In fitting a new cylinder you will need a check rod and may need to tune the cylinder for centered lock up.

[Fly]

Well I must comment here.One reason I like Remys is the quick cylinder change.But
You really did come up with the best deal with carry premeasured viles.I did the paper
cartrige thing & it sucks.

It takes more time with powder then anything else.I carry my viles of powder in a
bullet belt & just pull them pour, ram prelubed ball, & cap.

JMOHOP Fly

[Boerrancher]

Colts are slow to swap out cylinders on. I always rolled the ball in a plain wax paper, and added the powder behind it, twisted the end and when I was ready to load them, I would tear the end off of the paper pour the powder in the chamber, push the ball out of the paper, ram it home and then ram the paper on top of the ball to prevent a chain fire. A grease cookie can be added between the ball and powder but I have found it is not necessary, as there is enough wax on the paper to serve as a lube, unless you plan on doing lots of shooting in between swabbings. For the usual trip out a cylinder with 5 rounds capped with grease, and a half dozen of my paper cartridges in a small leather belt pouch with an inline capper worked well.

Best wishes,

Joe

[Bent Ramrod]

A loading flask with the proper sized spout will speed things up faster than a bunch of vials with pre-weighed charges. An in-line capper will also speed things up. The circular cappers, in my experience, don't seem to fit into the narrow recess around the nipple in revolvers.

If you could borrow one to try and make sure it isn't too big for your Navy, the flask that comes with the Walker Colt is the fastest of all. It has a plunger spout that dumps the charge when you press the flask into the chamber and a cavity with a sliding door next to the spout that drops the balls out. A little practice and you can rotate the cylinder with one hand, dump the charges and rotate it again, dropping in the balls and ramming them home.

[bubbapug1]

I thought it was a no no to load the cylinder directly from the flask just in case there was a hot ember in the cylinder. I can see how that would feed fire back into the flask and cause a bit of harm to the hand holding the flask.

Is there a flask with a slide gate that really is fire proof? I would think not, but if there is...I want one as that would really speed things up AND be safe.

I am just trying to save time measuring and dumping powder, but not at the cost of my hand!!

I don't really want to change cylinders. I will get a stand in for the gold one, but I don't want to clean many cylinders, and removing the wedge is time consuming in itself.

How do you nitrate rolling papers? In my old days as a pyro we used to dip our cross fuses on our timing fuse into a mix of airplane dope, solvent (thinner) and black powder.

It was a very flammable mixture and never once failed to ignite from the lifting charge.

[Hellgate]

Bubbapug,
The cookoffs/flask explosions are pretty much a rifle thing. The short chambers of the revolvers let any sparks burn themselves out long before you start repouring powder. In the long, deep breech of a rifle there could bo low oxygen levels or fouling buildup that could let an ember smolder for some time and then light off the poured charge. The only exception to the safety of flask pouring for a revolver would be if you were using paper cartridges that often do leave a bit of unburned paper that could hold a spark. When I was using paper cartridges I always had a pair of tweezers to pluck out any unburned (although nitrated) paper from the chambers. I gave up on paper cartridges due to the labor involved and inconsistant ignition. I used cigarette papers soaked on saturated KNO3 and dried. I have found after firing 20,000+ C&B rounds that a flask with a spout is plenty fast and quite safe.

[bubbapug1]

Thanks for that info Hellgate, I will order one up today along with a spare cylinder.

I tried the paper thing last night....it made me start drinking after 20 minutes. I never was good with wrapping presents or rolling cigarettes.

[Hang Fire]

58 Remmy cylinder swap outs are extremely fast, Colts, not so much.

[bubbapug1]

I tried loading directly ou tof the powder flask...it cut down on my time by at least 35%.

My flask is a see through plastic one. I want to upgrade to a model which has different nozzles which drop different wieghts. Any recomendations on which units work good and are also built to last and have some heft to them?

[Tom-ADC]

Bubbapug1, put a magnet on that frame if its like mine its brass, so keep the loads down.

[Fly]

Something that makes cheap & easy viles is ole shot gun casing.There is always
a bunch at gun ranges.I made some plugs from wood dowel & carry my viles in
a shotgun belt.

I can load mind as fast as any.
Fly

[bubbapug1]

Bubbapug1, put a magnet on that frame if its like mine its brass, so keep the loads down.

I am glad you posted that. Mine also must be brass...I'd like to think it was SS, but that would be wishful thinking.

Whats typical for brass frames?? Max less 25%

[Tom-ADC]

Start with 20 grains and don't go over 25. It's true that you can stuff the chambers full and not explode the gun, but routinely shooting a brass framed .44 with loads over about 25 grains will eventually cause some frame damage. Repeated use of heavy loads over a long period of time can render the gun useless.
You can also add cream of wheat filler on top of the powder if you want, remember no airgap between ball and powder.

[Multigunner]

I think it was a lot more comon to carry complete revolvers than it was to carry spare cylinders, unless there were broken guns around. To be right a cylinder would need to be fitted to the gun.

I haven't seen many original revolvers with multiple cylinders for sale. I wonder if this idea didn't get started by one of the dime novelist's like Ned Buntline???

I have read many accounts of Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers carrying four to eight revlovers on their person and horse. I am surprised that there aren't more lanyard rings on cap and ball revolvers.

To me speed loading and C&B guns do not even belong in the same sentence.

Robert
The Colt Patterson often came with spare cylinders.
http://theautry.org/the-colt-revolver-in-the-american-west/cased-sets?artifact=98.178.1
The early Pattersons did not have a loading lever, a special loading device was used.
Some of the loading devices charged and loaded all chambers at once.
I've seen 1848 Pocket revolver cased sets with a spare cylinder as well.

John Mosby's raiders once wiped out a much larger force of Union Calvary and found themselves heir to a huge pile of revolvers, after which they began carrying four or more revolvers into battle.

Switching out cylinders may not have been a commonplace method of reloading but it was done on occasion when spare cylinders were available.
Since timing issues are generally rectified by alterations to hand or locking bolt rather than alterations to the cylinder, and Colt's manufacturing methods were first rate, using an out of the box replacement cylinder was unlikely to cause any noticable problems with timing.

As for speedier loading I used to pour the pre measured charge into empty .357 cases and put a ball on top secured by tape. This did not work out that well because I still had to grease the chamber mouths and cap the nipples. Also residue from the tape left on the ball collected loose powder grains.
Using the flask is much easier in the long run.

PS
I have a .44 Brass frame that was given to me as a basket case after the cylinder arbor/pin pulled through the frame. The threads of that arbor were undersized and rounded off.
I made a replacement pin with slightly larger threads and a shoulder near the base.
I turned a mating shoulder inside the rear opening of the cylinder.
Now the pressure of discharge does not pull on the arbor/frame interface, the mating shoulders take all the back thrust of the cylinder.
When mounting the new arbor I first tinned the female threads of the brass frame and threads of the arbor. I screwed the arbor in tight while both parts were still hot and the silver solder still liquid. This made for a more secure fit.

[bob208]

i have heard this myth about the brass frame pistols shooting lose or even pulling out the arbor. the only time i have ever seen a arbor pulled was when 1 the person was using balls made of wheel weights not pure lead. the other was they were trying to ram .395 balls in the .36 cylinder.

i have made this offer before and i make it again. i will buy a brass frame navy colt. i will supply the lead. any one else supply the powder and caps. and i will shoot it till the arbor pulls.

[Glennrae]

To me speed loading and C&B guns do not even belong in the same sentence.

Robert[/QUOTE]

I agree! I just started shooting BP with an 1858 Remington. I enjoy the entire experience. The only luxury I have added is a good loading stand. No hurry ...No worry! But that is just me. And of course it would be different if someone was shooting back at me!!

[Gray Fox]

Glennrae: If someone were shooting back at you that's when you draw your second pistol, or as many as you carry ala Josie Wales. I have read that some of the Confederate raiders carried as many as six on their horses and person. GF

[bubbapug1]

I just got a ROA Saturday and it came with pyrodex pellets. I think that will speed up the process even more, but I hear the pellets aren't really that great. Its not so much a pellet as a bushing looking thing. I will do some chrony and accuracy tests with FFFg, Pyrodex P and the pellets and post them here in about a month.