Temp control for Lube Machines.

[Griz44mag]

Temp control on a lube sizer with hard lubes has always been an issue. I finally got busy and solved it for me. I procured a Johnson Controls A419. Add a line in (120V) cord and a line out cord, and program as needed. I have used the A419 before, and knew it could be pinned to work in heating mode. I taped the temp sensor to the sizer with a piece of metal duct tape. The sensor cord is 6' long, so mounting is really flexible. Set the temp and offset for what you need, plug in your sizer heater cord, and wait for the temp to rise. The display shows you how you are doing. I am using CR from White Lube Company, and have had a hard time keeping the temp correct. I set the temp at 90 degress, adjusted a little later to 95 degrees, and it was perfect. I did a run of 800 bullets (45 twin groove) and never had to adjust again. The temp on the sizer never strayed more that +- 2 degrees once it was set. Finally, temp issues are a thing of the past. This is a super simple setup. If anyone is interested, I would consider building a few more of them.

http://www.texas-chl.com/images/DSC00808.JPG
http://www.texas-chl.com/images/DSC00806.JPG

[DukeInFlorida]

$64 for something that I can control with a $3 rotary dimmer switch.

Your way, you know what the exact temp is.

My way, I don't know the exact temp, but have markings set for the various lubes I use. But, I'm $60 to the good.

[6bg6ga]

I think your post contributed yet another way to control the temp of the heater. There are PID controls available and now there is another that cycles the AC power on and off as it closely monitors the temperature. Johnson makes good reliable equipment.

[Griz44mag]

I'm in the business, so my cost is not nearly that much. For those that load in other than controlled environment, sure a dimmer would work. You won't get a consistent temp over a wide ambient area temp difference. For me, it's about the quality and consistency. For you Duke, it seems to be about the money. I'm OK with that, your way works for you. I threw my dimmer setup in the parts box, found it too unreliable for good temperature control. I'm a control freak, I want everything to be repeatable for best accuracy. If 50 bucks is enough to break you, then you need to take up a different hobby. I spent more than that on bore cleaner last year.

[6bg6ga]

I'm a control freak also so I go for devices that will allow precise accurate control. That is why I have a PID on my Magma and my mark VI will have one.

[41 mag fan]

Pride will supercede money lots of times. Proud you built something that works, and it didn't cost an arm and a leg to build

[fredj338]

I like it. I bought a cheap oven probe therm. Clamp it to the heater base & set it for 105deg. Then just turn the temp lower or higher to stay inside a 8-10deg window. Seems to work.

[Whistler]

This is the way I did mine with a aquarium thermostat I got cheap on eBay:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=113291

[blikseme300]

I use a Reliance 9000507-045 water heater thermostat on my heater bases for my Star sizers. These are less than $10. A simple Sharpie mark for each lube type is all I need to get consistency. BTW - Cartridge heaters are available for about $6 off Amazon. Search for: Amico 12mm x 100mm 400W Single Tube Mould Electric Cartridge Heater Element.

I used to use a dimmer but as the temperature in my shop varies by season it was not consistent enough. A PID or such is over kill, IMHO.


Bliksem
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[MikeS]

Is the Johnson unit basically doing the same thing as a PID unit would? Or is it actually a PID itself? I have a PID controller on my casting pot, and thought about getting another one for my Star sizer, but thought it was kind of overkill. At the moment I have a router speed control to control the temp of my lube, but I kind of like the idea of the Johnson unit.

[6bg6ga]

Basically if my understanding of this unit is correct it is doing the same job as a PID would do. The PID simply turns the load on and off. The Johnson control does it with more ease as its simpler to wire and program. If I had mine to do over I would go with the Johnson control. Johnson is a control speciality company and they have things designed to last in commercial applications for years. One you have a GOOD control setup for your heater you will wonder how you managed without it.

[Griz44mag]

Mike,
The Johnson control is an on-off unit with a very sensitive electric temp sensor. It can be configured for het mode or cool mode, and a differential set point of just 1 degree. I have found my temp will vary less than 3 degrees during a lubing-sizing session. I am super happy with it. It is not a PID, as a true PID will vary the actual current to the heater. The PID is usually a lot more expensive though, and for lube duty, a few degrees range is perfect!

[6bg6ga]

A proportional-integral-derivative controller (PID controller) is a generic control loop feedback mechanism (controller) widely used in industrial control systems. A PID controller attempts to correct the error between a measured process variable and a desired setpoint by calculating and then outputting a corrective action that can adjust the process accordingly and rapidly, to keep the error minimal.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_does_a_PID_controller_work#ixzz1xx2pL2bz

Upon checking my PID it did not control current it did turn on the SSR which controls the load. Current did not vary in my PID unit.

[Griz44mag]

Upon checking my PID it did not control current it did turn on the SSR which controls the load. Current did not vary in my PID unit.

I have been involved in industrial controls for many, many years. What you are describing is an electronic thermostat with an electronic relay controlling the output. The PID units we use in industrial controls (heating, pressure, cooling, flow rates, etc....) are a proportional device used to ramp up and ramp down loads. Example: If a heat load is being controlled, and the target is very cold, full current is applied to bring the temperature up to setpoint. As the temperature nears setpoint, the current is slowed down so it will not overshoot the target setpoint. A good grade of battery charger will do the same thing with charging amps. As the battery nears max charge, the current will taper back until full charge is reached. Many of the SCR controlled devices that are pure switching will cycle the output on and off in a very fast switching sequence so that it appears the voltage is being reduced, when in fact, under a scope, it is being switched. These are also refered to as VFD, or variable Frequency Drives, most commonly associated with motors. For absolute temperature control, either of these two logic units, quite often called PID, do a very good job of controlling temperatures to very narrow setpoints. The drawback is expense. But id you can afford them, go for it, you won't get better control.

[6bg6ga]

The GOOD industrial PID control units do ramp current as you stated.

The cheap ones like being sold by people here probably do not. Mine is an Auber and it does NOT vary current it just turns the SSR unit on and off. I have also designed industrial control for a variety of machines in the years past. For what people are doing here a GOOD PID control unit would be way overkill.

Something as simple as a Dynapar unit which could be used to turn on a heavy duty relay is all that is needed for the primitive control needed for a heater for a sizer or bullet pot. You can find these Dynapar units on ebay used for $10 ea plus shipping. This is what makes your Johnson Controls unit attractive you simply plug the load into it and set the temp and go.

[Lee W]

Phase control SSRs are pretty expensive. My limited experience is they work pretty well when you are heating something and do not want to scorch the medium around the heating element.

http://www.wolfautomation.com/products/1145/analog-switching-ssr-25-to-100-ampbr-carlo-gavazzi-rm1e-series