Winchester Rifles of the Hatfield-McCoys

[wv109323]

With the recent airing of the Hatfield- McCoy fued on the History Channel and a recent (to Me) Pawn Stars show , I am wondering about the rifles used in the fued.
The Pawn Stars Show I am referring to has a guy come in to sell one of the rifles used in the fued. It was a 1892 Winchester and had documentation that it had belonged to "Cap" Hatfield the son of Devil Anse. The firearm was supposed to have been used in the fued. Pawn Stars showed that the rifle had seven notches in the barrel for the seven people that Cap Hatfield was supposed to have shot during the fued. Also the rifle was supposed to have the name
"Cap" stenciled in the metal. Pawn Stars did not clearly show the name.MY research has showed that this rifle was a fake. The fued between the Hatfields and McCoys was over with in February 1890 with the hanging of the Mounts boy in Pikeville. No way could a 1892 rifle been part of the fued.
Another fact of the fued was that Devil Anse bought a quanitity of (15-25)Winchester lever actions rifles. IIRC the rifles were supposed to have been delivered in Ashland Kentucky from the Winchester factory. When I think about it this does not make sense either.
With no laws at the time why would the rifles have been delivered some 100 miles from the Hatfield's home? Why not ship them somewhere closer or directly to the Hatfields?
At this time did Winchester have distributors? Did Winchester ship guns directly to peoples homes? If not Why Not?
What model of Winchester rifle did Devil Anse buy? What was the caliber?
I would like to hear your comments.

[McLintock]

Well, I'd take what you see on Pawn Stars with a grain or maybe a big dose of salt. They bought an '86 Winchester one time, after their "expert" looked it over and were really proud of it. You could clearly see that it'd had the barrel shortened due to the incorrect distance of the magazine band from the end of the barrel and mag. Nobody mentioned this and it would be a very big deal to a Winchester collector.
So far as a '92 being used, I think you're right on figuring it was a fake. Probably if Hatfield did order rifles, they were either '73's or '76's, as these would have been the best Winchesters available at the time, possibly '66's as they were shipped up to 1898 with the last big year for them in 1891. But it could have come down to what ammo was easiest to get, 44 Rimfire or centerfire stuff.
McLintock

[EDK]

Not on the Hatfield-McCoy feud, but a lot of old guns were sold to unwary tourists in a lot of places.

Jesse James' mother allegedly picked up pawn shop junkers of the correct era and sold them to people who toured her farm/tourist attraction. Bat Masterson allegedly sold similar items and then told the victim afterwards. "After all, I owned this gun."

I'd want a lot of proof on authenticity on any such item. Besides the usual Civil War surplus items, I would look at HENRYS, WINCHESTER 1866 or 1873 or SPENCERS; I would not expect 1876 or 1886 WINCHESTERS. Handguns will be percussion COLTS, cartridge conversions, and possibly SINGLE ACTION ARMYS or various SMITH & WESSON top breaks or REMINGTONS.

You raised good questions and have done your homework. I'd add that the area of the feud was never a center of wealth for most residents at any time. Any guns are going to be pretty basic and used hard for a long time by people trying to eke out a living and not much money for luxury items.

:redneck::cbpour::guntootsmiley:

[McLintock]

Just watched a recording of the Pawn Stars show tonight and you answerd youir own question when stating the feud was over by 1890, at least the shooting part, as the rifle wasn't made until 1896, based on the 134 thousand plus serial number. Could have been owned by Cap Hatfield, but wasn't used in the feud and the notches were probably deer or hogs he killed with it, or they were added later. Otherwise, pretty rough shape for a $1000 rifle, as the expert claimed; maybe a $3-400 one if that.
McLintock

[Hardcast416taylor]

As an aside about the intellingence exhibited on the pawn stars show experts. A customer sold Rick diamond jewelry after an expert said they were real. Turns out the $40,000 jewelry Rick bought was glass not diamonds. Still remember the Colt SAA that their expert said was a parts gun.Robert

[signsrup]

I've done a little research on my end, as Levicy Hatfield was my grandmother's great aunt. It seems they were partial to Winchester 66 "Yellow Boy's". There are photos that seem to support this. I think most of the early 66's were chambered in 44 rimfire, but I could be wrong.

As a side note, my grandmother was in her eighties before I found the family connection. I dug into it only because she grew up in Pikeville, with my grandfather growing up on the WV side of the Tug River. When I asked her about it, she was all very matter of fact about it, and didn't know what the big deal was. The local people knew the story, and apparently it was old news, so to speak.

[BPreece]

I just wanted to let all you skeptics know that the Winchester on the recent Pawn Stars is 100% real... That was my uncle on the show and my Great, Great Grandfather did trade Cap Hatfield a horse for that 1892 Winchester. Your "research" should show you that the Preece family (shown on the episode of Pawn Stars) is from Martin County, KY on the border of KY and WV, proving that it was very possible that he could have crossed my families property.

Anyways..... Kevin Costner just purchased the gun from my family for a pretty penny. Its gone and I am not too happy about it... I hope I have laid the issue to rest.

-B Preece

[MT Gianni]

Welcome B Preece. I assume that you understand that the disputation is not with the ownership of the gun but with the suspision that this gun could have been used in the feud. This would be like claiming a 50 Studebaker was used in WWII as it was owned by a war Veteran.

[ajjohns]

I agree with the above statements. Most shows you watch never (usually) have period correct firearms. Nowadays the shows are better and do, but in this particular show ( which I enjoyed so much I watched a few times) I can see being a few years off in the models used. In these times there was so much overlap as to new guns coming out all the time. Was that gun owned by Cap? I would believe it so. Was it used in the gun fight? Well by the years in question, probably not. Does it matter, I'd say no. If you have documention saying it was Cap's gun, there's no more truthful you can be about it.

[BPreece]

The gun was traded from Cap Hatfield's hands to my Great, Great Grandfather's hands. Whether Cap shot anyone with it, no one can ever prove for sure... but the story of the notched on the barrel was told to my Dad by his Grandfather when he was just a kid.

[Hamish]

Paging Molly, paging Molly,,,,,

[Molly]

Paging Molly, paging Molly,,,,,

(VBG) I've been asked to comment, since I had blood relations on both sides of the feud (according to my grandpa) and have been handed down a handful of stories about it that I related on a similar thread about the recent TV show. I suspect I lost a relative in the feud, or at least he never came home after working in his field, and a search turned up nothing but his hat hanging on a twig a mile or so from his fields. I believe there are a fair number of unmarked graves in the area, but for all I know, he just got tired of his wife's nagging and lit out for the West.

I have also seen and handled a Win lever action that was on display in the Charleston, WVa State Museum some 50 years back, and was labeled as having belonged to Devil Anse. No claim was made that it was used in the feud. I wish I had known to investigate it more carefully, but I was just a kid, and what I remember was that it was about the biggest and heaviest rifle I'd ever handled up to that point, and the cartridges were bigger (diameter and length) than 45-70's and dwarfed my fingers ... and I was a big kid. My best guess is that they were 50/110 Win rounds. Since I understand that the 50-110 came out well after the feud had simmered down to nothing more than bad feelings, I doubt very much if it was ever aimed at a McCoy, and certainly not during the feud period.

That being said, I suspect the museum staff probably checked out the provenance of the gun before putting it on display, but may still have records of it being on display, as well as the donating owners, if anyone wants to inquire. For all I know, they could still have the gun in storage somewhere. IIRC, FWIW.

[knifemaker]

Devil Anse Hatfield was my great grandfather. Needless to say I was not born until the feud had been over for over 50 years and was born in CA. and not W.Virginia. Most of the photos I have seen in books, and from family members show Devil Anse and some of his sons with Winchester 1866s and 1873s. The photo of Devil anse's pistol is a Colt peacemaker with the short 4-5/8 inch barrel. I believe it was in 45 colt caliber.

I can not give any information if "Cap" ever owned a Win. 1892, I have heard that he did favor a Winchester 1873 during the feud. The Hatfield's were like a lot of us gunnuts on this forum, they did not just own one gun, but would buy new ones as they came out and if they had the funds to buy that "New Fangled gun" that shoots further and harder.

Cap Hatfield used to use Colt single actions but later in his life he progressed to the double action Colt officer special when he worked as a deputy for my grandfather, his brother, in Logan County in the late 1920's. There is also a photo of Devil Anse sitting on his horse and holding his Winchester rifle. The rifle appears to be a 1873, or may be a 1886 as I can not tell for sure as his right hand is covering the frame. He is wearing a wide leather cartidge belt slung over his shoulder for the rifle cartidges.
The one thing I can say for sure, the Hatfields did favor Winchester rifles and Colt handguns from the time of the feud up to the 1920-1930's when they went from single action Colts to double action Colts.

[ajjohns]

Be all what you guys say is true, wow! Very interesting read on a neat family history. I love reading facts like this. What a country we live in!

[Superfly]

very interesting

[badgeredd]

My wife has been investigating to find out whether she is related directly to some of the primary participants in the feud. Her great grandfather was a Vance, and she has been in touch with several cousins with the same last name.

Edd

[.22-10-45]

Hello, everyone. Very interesting posts! What is amazing is all the ruckus that took place wasn't all that long ago. Perhaps the Indians had it right all along..they named it the "Dark and bloody ground, long before white men came to live in this area.
Anyway..not to hijack post..but related in a similar way..my grandfather came over from Italy in 1910..worked in U.P. Michigan copper mines until he heard of work at the Chevrolet plant in Flint, Mi. This was in 1917. Few years later..he started bootleggging..county was dry. Said he traded some homemade hootch & sausage for a S&W .44 No. 3 topbreak..from a fellow worker..who was from Kentucky. Said he wanted to get rid of it because he had to kill someone with it back home! I have this old revolver..wish it could talk!

[Molly]

Hello, everyone. Very interesting posts! What is amazing is all the ruckus that took place wasn't all that long ago. Perhaps the Indians had it right all along..they named it the "Dark and bloody ground, long before white men came to live in this area. ...

Yes they did name it the 'dark and bloody ground' just as you say. Have you ever reflected on what ELSE that says?

It says that like good folk everywhere, the Indians took advantage of every opportunity to slaughter their neighbors. That's a bit cynical, but it's also true: At that early point, there simply weren't any white men to fight with, except perhaps a stray settler here and there. Their motives for doing so are a trifle more obscure, but a little thought will bring them to light too: The Indians were in a transitional culture, moving from hunter-gathers and they had begun to grow some corn. But their primary food source was still animals taken by hunting. For success, they had to control some rather sizable stretches of land in order to have animals to hunt. The state (now) of Kentucky was a large part of what was primarily disputed hunting territory in the eyes of the Indians. And like humanity through the ages, they quickly resorted to violence when the other guy was so misguided as to dispute their claims. And the other guy wasn't slow to return the courtesy.

The reason that the European white man was so successful in taking over the continent was the lack of political unity among the natives. They fought and hated one another more than they did the white man (for the most part) until it was THEIR land the white man was taking. When that happened, their neighboring tribes didn't come to their aid any more than they had gone to help other tribes. It was a classic "divide and conquer", though I doubt if anyone of the time recognized it. There were some efforts by the more thoughtful and insightful native leaders to form nations from the tribes, but they were not very successful.

[crabo]

How accurate is the story as portrayed in the mini-series? I always thought the fued started because of the romance, but it looked like it was more about desertion and timber rights that started it all.

[joec]

I do know in Saturday's paper in Lexington they had a blurb that the Hatfield 1892 Winchester rifle was on display in Frankfort, KY. It was reported as being owned by William Anderson "Devil Anse" Hatfield. It is at the Thomas D. Clark Center for Kentucky History till the first week of July.

[wv109323]

Crabo.
There was a lot in the Mini-series that was made for TV. In my opinion the romance played a small part in the fued. In a book written by Dr. Otis Rice( history professor at WVIT) he downplayed the romance. He made it out more as a fling between two hot blooded teenagers than a serious romance. In his book he explains that there was never a birth certificate for any offspring of a romance and tales from family members that there was never a child born.
The timber rights( and coal rights) was a bigger part than most people realize. There was an underground coal mine that operated on the property owned by Devil Anse from approximately 1930 until 1995. It mined two seams of high grade metallurgical coal. The mine was owned by U.S.Steel. The amount of coal that came from Devil Anse land would probably go into the hundreds of millions of dollars. The lawyer from Pikeville had duel motives in persuing the Hatfields.
The families had run-ins during the Cival War about livestock(pigs) that came up missing during the war. The McCoys filed legal claims that livestock came up missing and blamed the Hatfields. The Hatfields said the livestock was taken or "condemed" by area soldiers.
I think the debate over livestock, Loyalties over the North-South and finally the killing of Elliason Hatfield started the fued.

[GatorMike]

I've done a little research on my end, as Levicy Hatfield was my grandmother's great aunt. It seems they were partial to Winchester 66 "Yellow Boy's". There are photos that seem to support this. I think most of the early 66's were chambered in 44 rimfire, but I could be wrong.

As a side note, my grandmother was in her eighties before I found the family connection. I dug into it only because she grew up in Pikeville, with my grandfather growing up on the WV side of the Tug River. When I asked her about it, she was all very matter of fact about it, and didn't know what the big deal was. The local people knew the story, and apparently it was old news, so to speak.

Wow I had to sign up and comment on this because I have almost the exact story. My great grandmother was Levicy (Chafin) Hatfields sister. My grandmother was also in her 80s and my Grandfather was dead before any of us found out grandaddy was Devil Ans'es nephew. My grandmother too was from Pikeville and my grandfather was from Mingo county. I am assuming your great great grandmother was a Chafin? If so I'm sure you know your great great great grandfather, my great great grandfather was Nathan Chafin who was a next door neighbor to Devil Anses father Ephram Hatfield. Nathan had a bunch of daughters and Ephram had a bunch of sons. 4 of Nathan's 7 daughters married Hatfields. His son Moses actually married a McCoy.

If you are indeed part of this blood line I would love to chat with you in private messages to exchange information from our research. I have coppies of the death certificates of the 4 Chafin sisters that married Hatfields and 1840-1900 US censuses showing the names of the Chafin and Hatfield families living in Logan/Mingo counties.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Read this thread with great interest. Those poster that say they have or seen photos of these people and their weapons, could you possibly post these pictures. I would love to see them.

[GatorMike]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/v20.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/v13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/f7eJK91vC0LBzbOTxEigkT1M9vVSshq9RvYzMD5taNEVmOLAKe cRFsgd7Tpum.jpg

Oh no how did I get into that one?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/hitchingaride2.jpg

[GatorMike]

By the way I honestly think one of the unidentified men in that 3rd photo was my great grandfather.

I photoshoped a couple of pictures of my great grandfather into that photo to see how close a match it was. Keep in mind the 2 photos I photoshoped in were taken inside in a photography studio in about 1890 so the quality is much better than that picture.

What do you guys think, is it the same guy? Keep in mind my great grandfather was Devil Anses brother in law.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/possible13.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/GatorMike/Possible5.jpg

[mebe007]

interesting stuff. facial features are almost identical.

[GatorMike]

The story I was told was that before the battle of grapevine creek the Hatfields didn't have winchesters. I heard the Hatfields got their asses kicked because Frank Phillips and his bounty hunters all sported winchesters and the Hatfield clan was still using cap and ball rifles. Nobody was killed but the Hatfields had to turn tail and run. After grapevine creek Anse ordered 25 Winchesters and 10,000 rounds of amo. Also heard someone got the order wrong and only sent 1000 rounds.

Here is a clip I found online about the winchesters.

Phillips captured several of those men, and Phillips shot and killed Uncle Jim Vance on Jan. 10, 1888.

On Jan. 19, a large firefight between Phillips and his men and Devil Anse Hatfield and his men happened, since known as the Battle of Grapevine Creek. Although no one was killed in the fight, it prompted Devil Anse to order 25 new Winchester repeating rifles to prepare for future attacks.

The raids of the Kentucky-based men coming into Logan County brought the ire of West Virginia Gov. E. Willis WIlson, and many thought there might be another Civil War break out along the Tug Fork between factions in the two states. Both states ordered their National Guard units to prepare to defend their borders.

[kenyerian]

have really enjoyed reading this post. Great stories, Outstanding Pictures. Thank's for sharing

[Uncle Jimbo]

Thanks for the pictures. I really liked them.
Anyone on this site related to the other side of this feud? The McCoys.

[GatorMike]

Lol like I said earlier none of my generation were ever told my grandfather was Devil Anses nephew untill after my grandfather died in 1978 but shortly after that my grandmother spilled the beans. After that she told all kinds of stories. When asked who won the feud she would always answer "Well you don't see many McCoys around these days do you?".

I have come to believe the reason the stories were kept secret was because, (and this is just a theory I have since doing extensive reseach on the family background) my grandfather was a politician in Williamson WV in the 1920s. They suddenly moved to Florida in 1930, they always told us the move was for grandaddy's health, but he was the picture of health. I have learned he played at least a minor role in the WV coal mine vs labor union wars of the 1920s. I read a couple of accounts about the Matewan Massacre that mentioned his name. It seems just before the massacre sheriff Sid Hatfield called my grandfather in Williamson to obtain arrest warrants for the Baldwin Detectives. My grandfather told Hatfield he could not get the warrants.

It is just my theory but my beliefs are that sometime in the late 20s grandaddy did something to really piss off either the mine owners or the labor unions and had to get out of town fast, thus the silence for all these years. (Why else would a sucessful businessman with a political future all of a sudden leave town never to return?)

Anyway to answer your question, my great grandmother Mary Chafin had 4 sisters that married Hatfields. Levicy married Devil Anse, Betty married Good Lias Hatfield, Jane married Anses cousin Bad Lias Hatfield and Rebecca married a cousin named Monterville Hatfield. She had a brother Moses who married a neice of Randal McCoy named Polly. So yes I guess I am related to both sides.

[wv109323]

Gatormike,
The WV Coal Mine battles in southern WV were very brutal. Examine the number of WV State Troopers that were killed in keeping the peace and you will find out how bad things were. There were like 20 or so WV State Troopers killed in Logan and Mingo counties during the struggle. I read an account that the Mine Workers felt it was their duty to kill all that interfered in their business or livelihood. The men would hide in the mountains and used sniper techniques to kill most of the State Troopers.
Things were so bad that the President of the U.S. called in the National Guard to quill the violence on more than one occassion.
The Coal Operators brought in Workers to break the unions. The workers were transported in steel clad railroad cars. This was effective until it was discovered that the new "30-06" cartridge would shoot through the steel on the railroad cars.
WV passed a law in the 1910's that all "High-Powered Rifles" need to be registered with the Sheriff of the county in which they were purchased. That law is still on the books but it totally ignored today. The law was aimed to keep track of all the "30-06" rifles in the area of the trouble.
Remember that Sid Hatfield was murdered on the steps of the McDowell County Courthouse when reporting for a court hearing.
It could have been that your kindred wanted to get to a more peaceful place.

[jh45gun]

interesting stuff and interesting that there are a few descendants here posting.

[GatorMike]

Gatormike,
Remember that Sid Hatfield was murdered on the steps of the McDowell County Courthouse when reporting for a court hearing.
It could have been that your kindred wanted to get to a more peaceful place.

Yeah it was the script from those court hearings where I read my grandfathers name mentioned. I'm not 100% sure it was him but the court documents stated that at least 2 witnesses overheard a telephone conversation between Sid Hatfield and a Tony Webb at the courthouse in Williamson. When Webb informed Hatfield he could not get the warrents in time Sid Hatfield got angry and said "Then I will kill the sons of b______ before I let them leave town". Shortly after that the gun battle between the police and the Baldwin detectives broke out. I can't say for sure it was my grandfather but I can't immagine 2 Tony Webbs in a town the size of Williamson and both of them working from the courthouse.

[Wal']

Great read, keep it coming, even down here in Oz the Hatfield & McCoys were well known & were a part of my childhood wild West stories growing up as a kid. [smilie=s:

[buickrita]

With the recent airing of the Hatfield- McCoy fued on the History Channel and a recent (to Me) Pawn Stars show , I am wondering about the rifles used in the fued.
The Pawn Stars Show I am referring to has a guy come in to sell one of the rifles used in the fued. It was a 1892 Winchester and had documentation that it had belonged to "Cap" Hatfield the son of Devil Anse. The firearm was supposed to have been used in the fued. Pawn Stars showed that the rifle had seven notches in the barrel for the seven people that Cap Hatfield was supposed to have shot during the fued. Also the rifle was supposed to have the name
"Cap" stenciled in the metal. Pawn Stars did not clearly show the name.MY research has showed that this rifle was a fake. The fued between the Hatfields and McCoys was over with in February 1890 with the hanging of the Mounts boy in Pikeville. No way could a 1892 rifle been part of the fued.
Another fact of the fued was that Devil Anse bought a quanitity of (15-25)Winchester lever actions rifles. IIRC the rifles were supposed to have been delivered in Ashland Kentucky from the Winchester factory. When I think about it this does not make sense either.
With no laws at the time why would the rifles have been delivered some 100 miles from the Hatfield's home? Why not ship them somewhere closer or directly to the Hatfields?
At this time did Winchester have distributors? Did Winchester ship guns directly to peoples homes? If not Why Not?
What model of Winchester rifle did Devil Anse buy? What was the caliber?
I would like to hear your comments.

model 1873 Winchester was Hatfields gun inwhich his great great grandson Mr John Hatfield owns to this day.

[Squeeze]

616826168361684

1886

[wv109323]

I will add an update to the story that might add some info to this tread. Recently ( in the last six months) there was a group from a TV reality show that come in and found the site of of the original McCoy home that was burnt on Jan. 1,1888. Two of the McCoy children were murdered and their mother was left for dead in the raid.
Some of the bullets ( that were apparently fired by the Hatfields were recovered) and are on display in the Williamson WV " Coalhouse".
Two of the bullets appeared to be .32 caliber round ball. I would surmise that would be logical because that caliber was common in black powder rifles used in this area. Remember that the largest animals in the area was white tail deer. The rifles were known as "Squirrel Rifles" because their main use was for small game. The larger calibers were not needed until the western migration took place and the main use was buffalo. That is when and where the " Hawken" rifles in 45 and 50 caliber were made in St. Louis ( Gateway to the West).
Two more of the bullets appeared to be round nose bullets of about .38 caliber and around 140-150 grain.
The last two bullets were round nose around .44 or.45 caliber and around 200-225 grain. I would guess they were pistol bullets. They appeared to be solid based bullets as opposed to hollow based.
These murders prompted the Kentucky governor to order Frank Phillips to enter West Virginia and arrest the Hatfields( and others) that were responsible. One result was the "Battle of Grapevine Creek" in which Jim Vance was killed.
This may well be when the Hatfields ordered the Winchesters.

[JHeath]

The feuding patriarch in this video is a ringer for Anse Hatfield, and they're using muzzleloaders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEEXylFBfKk

[knifemaker]

One of the questions that came up was about the Hatfields ordering Winchester rifles and why they were delivered to a place 100 miles from Devil Anse Hatfield's home. My Grandfather was one of the younger sons of Devil Anse and later was elected Sheriff of Logan County, WV. While sheriff he ordered a Colt Official Police revolver from Colt when that model first came out in 1929. I have seen the paperwork on that gun from the Colt factory. It showed that the gun was sent to the Logan County General store after being ordered by J.D. Hatfield and Colt had engraved "J.D. Hatfield" on the side plate as ordered.
As for the Winchester rifles ordered by Devil Anse, he may have requested that they be sent to a general store far from his house instead of being sent to the general store in Logan county. He may have done this to prevent anyone from knowing in Logan County that he was arming his family for the feud with the McCoys. If those guns had been delivered to Logan County general store, the word would have been out in one day that Devil Anse was preparing for war with the McCoys and the McCoys would have heard about it the next day due to town gossip.
I have not heard anything myself about Devil Anse buying that many Winchesters at once, but I do know via family talk that Devil Anse and his older sons did favor the Winchester 73 for it's firepower over single shot rifles. They also favored Colt revolvers single actions and then later double action when they came out. My grandfather carried the Colt double action official police while sheriff and Sid Hatfield carried two Colt 44 cal double action revolvers while chief of police in Matewan. I believe that Devil Anse's Colt 1873 cal 45 colt is on display in a museum in West Virginia.

[wv109323]

Another thing that I read that may coincide with what you are saying. The Hatfields cut and sawed timber in Logan county and transported the lumber by wagon to Ashland,Ky. /Ceredo,WV.
The norm was to cut the timber and float the logs down the Tug River to Ashland so that it could be sawed. The Hatfields owned a sawmill which was unusual but because they owned such a large tract of land it made sense.
The fact that the Hatfields made frequent trips to the Ashland area may be why they had the Winchester shipped there. Like you said, the McCoys would have been much less likely to hear about the arrival of the firearms.

[GatorMike]

One of the questions that came up was about the Hatfields ordering Winchester rifles and why they were delivered to a place 100 miles from Devil Anse Hatfield's home. My Grandfather was one of the younger sons of Devil Anse and later was elected Sheriff of Logan County, WV. While sheriff he ordered a Colt Official Police revolver from Colt when that model first came out in 1929. I have seen the paperwork on that gun from the Colt factory. It showed that the gun was sent to the Logan County General store after being ordered by J.D. Hatfield and Colt had engraved "J.D. Hatfield" on the side plate as ordered.
As for the Winchester rifles ordered by Devil Anse, he may have requested that they be sent to a general store far from his house instead of being sent to the general store in Logan county. He may have done this to prevent anyone from knowing in Logan County that he was arming his family for the feud with the McCoys. If those guns had been delivered to Logan County general store, the word would have been out in one day that Devil Anse was preparing for war with the McCoys and the McCoys would have heard about it the next day due to town gossip.
I have not heard anything myself about Devil Anse buying that many Winchesters at once, but I do know via family talk that Devil Anse and his older sons did favor the Winchester 73 for it's firepower over single shot rifles. They also favored Colt revolvers single actions and then later double action when they came out. My grandfather carried the Colt double action official police while sheriff and Sid Hatfield carried two Colt 44 cal double action revolvers while chief of police in Matewan. I believe that Devil Anse's Colt 1873 cal 45 colt is on display in a museum in West Virginia.

I would assume your grandfather was Joe Hatfield, both him and Tennison served as Logan County Sheriff as well as a cousin of theirs Don Chafin. They were all cousins of my grandfather who's mother was Levicy Hatfields sister. Guess that would make us 3rd cousins, nice to meet you cuz. LOL. Anyway from what I have read the 20 winchesters were ordered after the battle of Grapevine Creek.

[Rwall1]

Does anyone have the serial number range of the winchesters that Anse ordered? I have an 1886 45/90 from my father who pasted away last year. He was given the rifle by his grandfather who grew up in the tug Valley area and story go's that Anse gave him the rifle when he lived with him. Any info would help. Thanks. Rob

[mykel6]

I have a Winchester Model 1873 that my late father left for me that might have been owned my Devil Anse Hatfield. I am trying to find information on it to verify this. Does anyone know how I can find out? It has HEH carved on one side of the butt stock and what looks like AHH on the other side. Any help would be appreciated. It is chambered for 38 WCF.

[Dave18]

never really realized the depth and scope of this, even though not really that far away from where things went down, never really heard much about it, here in Indiana,

Dillinger was the story that was around here, along with some of the other roaring 20s kiddies that hung out around here
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

now Im going to have to go read up on the feud,

thanks to those who posted from the families involved,

[woodbutcher]

:-D This has to be one of the best threads on the site.Thanks to all who have posted.Some great history here.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Old-Win]

If that's Devil Anse on the horse, he must have liked Marlins too. If you expand the picture and look at the lever, it looks like a Marlin.

[wv109323]

Mykel6,
Several years back the Charleston Gazette did an article on one of the Winchester rifles owned by Devil Anse. I believe it was Dr. Coleman Hatfield that owned the rifle. Coleman wrote a book on Devil Anse. The rifle had been kept in the family and was known to have been in the fued.
I now see Coleman's, son ,which is also a doctor, I will ask him about the rifle.
You can contact Winchester and get the ship date and where shipped to of a Rifle. I think that is right.

[sailcaptain]

Woodbutcher.....I can't agree more!
I was sitting here with a cup of coffee and started reading these stories and saying to myself WOW! What great memories and family lore.
This is one of the best threads on the site!
Please keep the chapters coming.

[WinchesterM1]

I am from Ashland Ky and my granny was a McCoy.... we have lots of stories

[knifemaker]

WV109323, When you speak to Dr. Coleman's son. Ask him if he knows the where abouts of any of Joseph Davis Hatfield's children or grandchildren. Joe Hatfield was my grandfather and I have been trying for years to contact any of his family. I had a phone conversation with Dr. Coleman, about a year before he passed away, and he told me that Joe's family members had moved from Logan County and he had no contact information for them.
My father was born when Joe married his first wife, Virginia Mcdonald and had a older brother, Robert E. Lee Hatfield that I am named after. After Joe and Virginia broke up, Joe returned to Logan County and married Grace Ferrell and they had 5 kids together. Joe was elected sheriff of Logan County in 1928 and his older brother, Cap Hatfield, was one of his deputies.
My email address is bobo1154@digitalpath.net

[wv109323]

Knifemaker, my next appointment with Dr. Hatfield is in late June. I will ask.
I shot pistols with a J. D. Hatfield several years ago. He was a former Marine and was on the first team Marine Rifle team at one point. He lived in Newtown WV. He had cancer and was in remission at that time(about 1993). I have no idea what his status is now.

[knifemaker]

wv109323 That would be a different J.D. Hatfield as my grandfather died in 1963 in Logan County. Dr. Coleman is out of the Tennison Hatfield line who was the younger brother of my grandfather.