What's the Difference?

[jim4065]

Just bought some more dies - from Lee this time - but one of the other mfgs that I looked at was selling Titanium Nitride instead of Carbide. I've used a lot of Carbide and never had a problem with it - even ending up with two Carbide dies for the 30 Carbine. Very little experience with Nitride - other than on some drill bits. I've been told that Nitride is only a few molecules thick whereas Carbide is vey thick - maybe 1/8"??

Can anyone tell me if the Nitride dies hold up well? And if it's some kind of electrical deposition process, then is there any reason why we can't have bottleneck Nitride dies? In fact, if they can coat a twisty drill bit - why not the inside of a rifle die? Why not sear surfaces, for that matter? :???:

[Buckshot]

...............Carbide is a solid and isusually in the form of a ring at the base of the die. TiN is a surface coating. What the application process is I have no idea. I do know the coating thickness may be varied, but again I don't know by what thicknesses. I do know that there is TiN coatings and then there are TiN coatings.

Like a coat of paint, the prep work done before the TiN coating is applied can have a lot to do with it's durability. Ditto the expertise used in the application of the TiN coating will also effect it's longevity.

I'm sure that Hornady did a substantial amount of testing on their coating's performance before releasing them on the market. I'm sure they perform just as Hornady suggests they do. I believe that CH-4D does, or did supply internal TiN coatings on some selected dies for production stuff.

One thing about TiN coated drill bits is that once they need to be sharpened, you lose any benefit of the TiN coating where it counts.

..............Buckshot

[DLCTEX]

Do the TiN dies still need to have the cases lubed? I think so, so it is not equivilent to carbide if that is the case, just gives more wear resistence.
Dale

[jim4065]

According to Hornady "The sizer die features Titanium Nitride sizing rings that eliminate case sticking and require no lubrication."

[jim4065]

Come to think of it - my Carbide 30 Carbine dies are for a straight wall tapered case - and a little lube sure makes them work better. Maybe the TiN coating increases wear resistance enough to where it will someday be incorporated in semi-auto frame rails, hammer/sear surfaces, etc.

For what it's worth - my TiN drill bits probably last longer, but I don't really pay attention.

[dubber123]

I haveseveral sets of the Titanium Nitride Hornady dies, and they do not require lube. They feel very similar to carbide in use to me. My most used set has only about 10-15,000 rounds loaded, so I cannot claim to it's long term performance. In my opinion, however, they are some of the best dies I have ever used.

[Bad Flynch]

TiN can be applied to the whole die. I had CH-4D do that to a .38-40 sizing die. Be aware that full-length WC (or W2C) and TiN dies both require lubing the cases, so that is not saved. They simply extend sizer die life.

When WC first became available for sporting use, it was made available as a flash coating on knife edges--one side only. It made the "sharp" edge last long, it was said. However, it made sharpening difficult and unreliable because one could only sharpen the soft steel away on the side of the knife that did not have WC on it. That left a very thin and fragile edge of WC that left a lot to be desired. The flash-coated knives are much like the current steel sizing rings that are flash-coated with TiN.

I use my .38-40 sizer die to size new brass that needs a touch-up before loading, as the new cases are small enough that they do not touch the sides of the die and do not require lubing. All I do is straighten and size the necks, and no lube is needed for that. The system works quite well. I do not use it for FL sizing without lube.

BTW, the Hornady dies work quite well and are reasonably priced.

[nicholst55]

C-H says that if you ever wear out one of their Titanium Nitride coated dies, they'll replace it for free! They do ask that you tell them how many rounds you loaded with it.

They also advise that rifle dies will still require case lube.

[Hunter]

I use the Titanium Nitrate Hornady dies (straight wall pistol) and they are pretty slick. I do however use a touch of the Hornady case lube just because it makes me feel better.
I have some Hornady dies that my father gave me (he had them 10 years before he gave them to me) and they still work great.
I broke a decapping pin in the RCBS carbide die set in .45 ACP a few years back. I used a roofing nail with the head cut off as a temporary fix and that was about 5 years ago. The nail is still punching out primers.

[BluesBear]

Come to think of it - my Carbide 30 Carbine dies are for a straight wall tapered case - and a little lube sure makes them work better.
Carbide rings were first introduced not to eliminate lubrication but to prevent dirt and grime from scratching the inside of the sizing die.
That you could size without lubrication was just a happy coinsidence.

I think it was RCBS who introduced the first Carbide .30 Carbine dies and they have always advised that lubrication was still needed for it..


I have Tungsten Carbide or Titanium Carbide dies for every cartridge I reload for if they're available.
Even on the truely straight walled cases, I've found that a quick shot of Hornady One Shot case lube makes sizing MUCH easier.
I now use One Shot on EVERY caliber I reload.

[BAGTIC]

In addition to TC pistol dies I also have some Hollywood tungsten carbide dies in
.223 and .308. Because of the case taper they still need to be lubed.

[MtGun44]

My new titanium nitride Hornady dies in .357 Mag and .44 Mag
leave the brass especially shiny after sizing. My old carbide
dies are now in the D-550, so I needed some new dies for
test runs in the turret. I like the new dies and no lube seems
at all necessary.

My $.02 worth.:-D

Bill