Ideal 358431 Hollow base

[gnoahhh]

I'm just getting back into casting bullets and was digging through my "museum" of casting gear from 20+ yrs. ago. I found a mould that I used to use occasionaly- Ideal 358431 Kieth-style 150-160gr. (don't remember exactly) with a depth-adjustable hollow base plug. As I recall it was a PIA to cast with, but the bullets were accurate. Before I go to the trouble of degreasing it, can anyone tell me just what the supposed benefits of this feature is? It always struck me as a strange design but back then I didn't care enough to ask! Heck, I might even have to get a .38 again just to use it!

Getting all the old .30 moulds ready to cast again sure brings back a lot of memories. Got about 20 of 'em. Mostly Ideals from the 30's/40's/50's. (How 'bout a 31141 Hollow Point!)

Gary

[MtGun44]

I have not used a hollow base mold in over 30 years, but as I understand
Elmer's intent with that mold, it was to permit a gun with very tight throats
and more importantly tight chambers to work well with an oversized bbl
diameter (or an undersized chamber, your point of view may vary).

For example - if you could not chamber a loaded round with a bullet larger
than .358" and the barrel slugs at .361", you are pretty screwed for getting
much accuracy. You might luck out with hot loads and very soft bullets that
could then slug up to the barrel size. They may well lead like heck, too.
The hollow base would come out of the throat at well under the proper
size for the barrel, but then it would easily bump up to fit the barrel due
to the gas pressures forcing the hollow base to expand.

Felix made the point of the limit of bullet oversize being the safe release
of the bullet in the chamber on another post, and this is important for
safety. But staying safe also limits your ability to 'deal with' an oversized barrel/undersized chamber (and likely throat) by making the bullet bigger.

I hope others with more experience will correct this if I misunderstood Mr.
Keith's intent for this bullet.

Bill

[Glen]

Mtngun44 -- that is pretty much the story, except that Elmer also promoted this bullet for high velocity loads (since it was lighter than his standard SWC). I never really agreed with him on this latest aspect since higher velocity loads also mean higher muzzle pressures, and higher muzzle pressures tend to flare the hollow based "skirt" when the bullet clears the muzzle, inducing yaw and poor accuracy. In my experience, the 358431 is VERY accurate in low pressure loads (i.e. around 750 fps), but accuracy goes to pot at higher speeds.

[GLL]

Gary:

If you get this mould fired up and operational I would very much like to buy a couple handfulls of your 358431 bullets to experiment with. If not, I would love to buy the mould if it is ever available for sale. I would supply you with bullets for your use ! :) :)

Keep in touch.

Best Regards,

Jerry

[beagle]

Originally used in the .38/44. Once the .357 Magum came out, it got a lot of play in .38 Special cases in the Magnum chambers as magnum cases were hard to come by and .38 Specials were plentiful.

I beleive the HB was originally intended to overcome and dimensional problems in chamber mouths and barrel diameters. The though in using it in magnum chambers was that the base would seal and overcome the jump caused by the shorter .38 case in the mag chamber.

I've fired loads of them in .357 Mag guns and they do well. They also shoot well in regular .38 Special guns at more sedate velocities.

The 429422 HB version of the 429421 also shoots well in .44 Special cases in magnum chambers.

Pretty popular for a while and finally, folks said to heck with HB bullets and went to the 358429 and 358439 and said to heck with it.

After shooting loads of both bullets, I'm not sure the HB hassle is worth it either./beagel

[gnoahhh]

Thanks for the info guys. I've been getting the urge to get back into CB handgun shooting. Picked up a pristine .32 Colt Police Positive and a .45LC New Service to that end. If I could find a Colt Officer's Model I'd be a happy man. (Can you tell I'm partial to pre-war Colts?)

GLL, if I decide to sell you got first dibs.