Round Butt Vs. Square Butt S&W's

[armed_partisan]

Okay, I just gotta ask. Does anybody actually LIKE the Roundbutt N-Frame S&W's? On the K and L frame, round vs square doesn't make much of a difference in the way it feels in my hand, but there's a HUGE difference for me when it comes to N-frames. I've actually passed up N-frame Smith's I wanted because they had round butts and that makes them hard to find decent grips for (I also hate finger groove grips), so am I alone in this? Do people actually like these?

[MasS&W]

If you aren't looking for nostalgia, I find that round butt N frames tame recoil far nicer than square. Nobody could argue which one looks better, though.

[MasS&W]

What kind of N frames did you pass up?

[armed_partisan]

It won't tame recoil very well if you have to get a grip that forces you to hold it higher in your hand, which is my main problem. I must be the only person who likes Magma service grips, I guess.

[armed_partisan]

I passed on a .44 Special Model 24 Lew Horton case hardened model because I didn't like the round butt. It was $550 or so at a gunshow, which seemed like a good price.

[MasS&W]

That would have been a good deal. What length barrel did it have on it?

[armed_partisan]

I think it was 6.5". They did those ones with 4" and 6.5" instead of 6" I think. It looked nice.

[MasS&W]

I have rather large hands, I find the big frame revolvers fit me better in round butt. Square butt .44s flip skyward way too quickly for my comfort.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

A friend of mine just bought a S&W 625 with Miklic style grips and I must say they do feel and look good. They are the only round gripe that I like. I may not be spelling Jerry's name right but I am too tired to look it up.

[MasS&W]

I'm not familiar with those style grips. My revos either have pachmayr or stock service deals.
I must confess wood round butt grips look a bit odd.

[MasS&W]

I've heard tell that you can easily cut square butt grips to round butt configuration. Obviously going back to square butt would be a bit difficult.

[armed_partisan]

I bought one of those Hogue grips that come on the Jerry Miculek 625's in hopes it would go well with my 657 Mountain Gun, but I'm not very fond of it. It's a little thin. I got it for the cost of a Hogue Rubber Grip. I guess the guy who bought it at the store wanted the rubber grip more, and the store did the swap for him.

[armed_partisan]

I don't know who makes them, MasS&W, but they sell 'em in Brownells, Dillon Precision, and on Clark Custom Guns. Brownells says they're made by Bang, but I thought they were made by Hogue, since mine came in a Hogue box with Hogue hardware.

[MasS&W]

They seem like your standard run of the mill wood grips, but with ergonomics in mind. I might pick up a set for a future 686 purchase. (I buy guns to fit holsters and grips on hand, not the other way around :P)

[Groo]

Groo here
I always try to get round butt frames when I can..
It is much easier to fit the grip to your hand with less frame to get in the way.
Look at ruger and dan wession,,, just a stub frame so the grip can be cut any which way.

[76 WARLOCK]

The best for me is a rd butt, with Herrets Jordon Trooprs custom fit to your hand.

[armed_partisan]

I honestly like the N-frame square best, but with K and L frames, it doesn't seem to make too much difference. If anything, on K and L, I prefer round, which is odd. I thing it has to do with the angles of the different grips. I wonder why S&W didn't make a universal grip size across K, L, N, and X when they changed the N?

[Guesser]

I put SB adaptor grips on all my RB Smiffs.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Groo, the S&W 625 my friend bought also has a stub for a grip frame. The grips feel good to me but then, I have rather small hands. My friend bought a set of rubber grips for the pistol before he left the store. Nothing takes out the sting of stiff recoil like rubber.

[Dframe]

Over the years I've gone from being a fan of the big square frame targets to loving the roundbutt N frames. If you need a set of superb stocks for an N frame Smith you can't do any better than Kim Ahrends. They make stocks that are better than the factorys Nowadays I find the huge square stocks just bulky and annoying. I'll take the round butt everytime.

[Frank46]

ARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!. The lew horton model 24 with the 3" bbl is around a $800 dollar gun. And yes I have one. Love the RB. However you can get RB to SB grips if the RB doesn't perform. Check out the S&W forum Last m24 3"bb LH went for $800. The post may or may not be still up. They ask 800 and they get it. "N" frames rule. Frank

[Hardcast416taylor]

Square butt without any doubt.Robert

[Shuz]

I have rather large hands, I find the big frame revolvers fit me better in round butt. Square butt .44s flip skyward way too quickly for my comfort.

I agree!

[MasS&W]

I agree!

That being said, nobody can argue what looks better. Square Butt.

[ColColt]

I have a model 66-4 with a round butt and a 15-3 with the square butt...doesn't matter to me. They both feel right with good grips on either however, I prefer the stock magna grips on the model 15.

[bcp477]

Apologies to anyone who likes them.....but,


the square butt design has got to be the most stupid shape ever conceived - for something to be gripped by the human hand. Lousy ergonomics......just lousy. The round butt design is better, not perfect......but better.

[StrawHat]

I thought I liked the round butt on "N" frames. Then I modified my revolver and used it. Took me a couple of years, okay maybe a decade, of carrying before I admitted I prefer the square butt on my "N" frames. Now, as to grips, I prefer the wood grips as sold by S&W. Lots of wood there and enough so I can take a rasp and shape it the way it needs to be to fit my hand. I usually end up with about half of the wood removed.

[leftiye]

The first time I got aholt on a round butt N frame S&W I asked my friend who was there with me "Why did they ever make the square butt frames?" My guess is that it is "tradition" and that S&W was just too stodgy to change. We'll have to agree to feel differently about S&W grips Strawhat, Ah cain't stand any of S&W's factory wood. Homemade jobs with the flare on the back of the butt ground off. Pity Pachmayr doesn't make a true round butt decelerator for the N frame. That would be my choice. Their decelerator/grippers for the round butt look just like the ones for the square frame revolters (which ain't really bad).

[Ed K]

Groo, the S&W 625 my friend bought also has a stub for a grip frame. The grips feel good to me but then, I have rather small hands. My friend bought a set of rubber grips for the pistol before he left the store. Nothing takes out the sting of stiff recoil like rubber.

I have never seen that variant. I always thought Ruger had the right idea with this and now Smith is apparently coming around.

[armed_partisan]

I can't believe that most people seem to prefer round butt. Nothing fits my hand better than a square butt N frame with Magna stocks. Nothing. Semi or Revo. I HATE round to square grips worse than I hate either design by itself. I even designed a new grip on CAD/CAM software and printed it out, then tried to get a couple companies to make it, because nobody makes a TRUE round to square design, just big, goofy, finger groove and space filling designs with palm swells... ugh! I hate 'em.

[Bret4207]

Yes, I have both and I prefer the round butt. I have larger, short fingered hands. They fit me better. My M28 wears huge maple grips that I really need to reduce in size, it's a bear to shoot well because they are so large. My M-24 Lew Horton feels far better to me with it's round butt. If I had oversize hands and long fingers I might feel differently.

To each their own. I'll tell ya this much, I never, ever liked the SA grips that everyone raves about. The Colt's and Rugers and built exactly backwards IMO.

[pdawg_shooter]

I have Hogue monogrips on all mine. Never could understand why the factory made their grips the biggest where your hand is the smallest.

[dualsport]

How about a picture? Some round, some square. Thanks. I'm a visual guy.

[TXGunNut]

I like my J-Frames with round butts, K & L with square butts. Damn few square butt J-Frames or round butt big frames when I was buying my S&W's so can't say for sure I'd make the same choice today.
Quite fond of a Uberti 45 Colt Bird's Head, just bought a BP frame Cattleman so this should be interesting. I think our hands will accomodate anything our eyes will tolerate.

[MasS&W]

I think that an aspect we may be overlooking is that round butts are FAR easier to conceal, without that big pointy butt sticking out of the back of our shirts.

[StrawHat]

How about a picture? Some round, some square. Thanks. I'm a visual guy.

Here is a shot of four different grips that fit the S&W N frame.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Nframegrips008.jpg

In this photo, the grips on the left are ones I make from the square grips that come from the factory.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/Nframegrips005.jpg

As you can see, they take up a lot less profile and fit my hand better. I do not have a photo from the rear but they are thicker towards my thumb and thinner by the pinkie. I have whittled these grips for K, L, and N frame revolvers. They are very comfortable to use and, in my mind, much better than factory.

[sharps4590]

"I think our hands will accomodate anything our eyes will tolerate". TxGunNut, that is one of the best, most succinct statements I have read for quite some time. I love it....and it's more than likely correct!!!

When I voted, I voted either one. After reading the posts and recalling the days long ago when I shot a lot of big bore S & W handguns I believe I need to change my vote to round butt. I particularly don't like the factory Magna grips for shooting but they sure look impressive. I do like the Hogues on my 696.

[TXGunNut]

I think that an aspect we may be overlooking is that round butts are FAR easier to conceal, without that big pointy butt sticking out of the back of our shirts.

For concealment round butts are best but I have other uses for my S&W's as well. I used Pachmayr Grippers for duty and comp use on SB K & L frames to good effect for years, still prefer them for serious target work. They are pretty concealable with the right shirt and holster, almost as good as a RB gun. My only cc S&W revolvers these days are a 60 and a 37 (both RB's) and they pocket carry quite well, doubt SB versions would work very well for that.

[TXGunNut]

"I think our hands will accomodate anything our eyes will tolerate". TxGunNut, that is one of the best, most succinct statements I have read for quite some time. I love it....and it's more than likely correct!!!-sharps4590

Thanks. To clarify/elaborate our hands will adapt to a myriad of reasonable grip shapes. Feel, pointabilty and recoil are always partly subjective. I mistakenly fired some "Ruger Only!" loads in a Bird's Head Uberti :shock: and it handled them quite well even tho I fired them one-handed. If we like the pistol/revolver and the grips it's wearing our hands (and minds) will make them work.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Jerry. Was hoping this would become an illustrated thread. [smilie=w:

[shotstring]

I used to have a round butt 3 1/2" model 27 back in 1975 that I traded. I've missed it ever since. I know have a square but 3 1/2" pre model 27 that is a wonderful gun, but it is a square butt and just doesn't have the same feel at all. I much preferred the round butt.

[StrawHat]

I used to have a round butt 3 1/2" model 27 back in 1975 that I traded. I've missed it ever since. I know have a square but 3 1/2" pre model 27 that is a wonderful gun, but it is a square butt and just doesn't have the same feel at all. I much preferred the round butt.


Was that M27 from 1975 a stock revolver from the factory? I was not aware of S&W offering the round butt in that time frame.

[shotstring]

Was that M27 from 1975 a stock revolver from the factory? I was not aware of S&W offering the round butt in that time frame.

Yep, but being so long ago I suppose there is a slight chance I could have mis-remembered. But I don't think so. The image and feel of that gun was pretty clear and remained with me all this time. I don't know what exact year the gun was produced, but I bought it new from a dealer about 1975, give or take a year. At least I thought it was new. I was new pretty new to guns at the time. But I distinctly remember the curved back strap and the way the grip seemed abnormally small in your hand compared to the rest of the gun. It was a factory grip that left the curved back strap exposed and ended with that diminutive curved bottom. I not sure if it was the old diamond grips from S & W but I believe it was. Just not 100 % sure. The grip seemed so tiny compared to rest of the gun, yet it felt so good in my hand. I traded it because I bought into all the hype about short barreled guns being inferior for the 357 magnum cartridge where velocity was concerned. Regretted it ever since.

[Taroman]

I always preferred the SB configuration.
That was for 4", 6" and 8-3/8" guns. My 4" 625 got SB conversion stocks.
Than, along came a 3" 624 and everything changed.
For this size, the RB seems "right", especially as it came with swell Ahrends tactical stocks.
http://www.hverovhe.com/624-3.jpg

[Ilwil]

I'd have to vote for the round butt, chiefly because it is more versatile. and can take sb grips with no problem. I've had a number of N frames, anf for carry. the round but rules,

[Larry in MT]

This is my -4 as it came from the factory --- I LIKE the round butt and shooting those 280 grain hardcasts @ 1235 fps doesn't punish my hand at all.

However, I'm going back into Griz country Sunday, and if I need the .44 I'll surely need to be able to hang onto it as well as possible. Because of that, I re-sighted it this AM with round-to-square rubber Hogues. They are ugly as sin but allow for less change in grip and allow me to make follow-up shots faster.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab176/larrykay47/c542cbf8.jpg

[Char-Gar]

I can live with RB grips on K frames, but not on N frames. I have Herrett's RB to SB custom grips on all three of my SB N frames.

[Bodydoc447]

I just bought a Model 10-10 square butt .38 Special from Buds Gun Shop. They are police trade-in revolvers and Buds has both the round and square butt models on sale so I sprang for one to use as a ranch pistol (snake shot and pest control). I am just "used" to the square butt design.

Doc

[FergusonTO35]

If using wood grips I strongly favor a square butt, preferably with a grip adaptor behind the trigger guard. That being said my favorite rubber handgun grip of all is the Pachmayr Compac for the S&W K round butt. No ugly finger grooves or weird lumps and bumps, just a smooth rounded profile with the right amount of filling behind the trigger guard. Its the perfect size and design for both comfortable shooting and concealment. Don't know why this particular design is only made for the S&W, their other Compac grips have an odd, oversize profile with a half finger groove on the bottom.

[RL Parker]

I think that an aspect we may be overlooking is that round butts are FAR easier to conceal, without that big pointy butt sticking out of the back of our shirts.

That is true. Even an N frame can be concealed well (on me) with well designed round butt grips.

[FergusonTO35]

When I was kid all the coppers carried those 27's with huge target stocks hanging out of the holster. Heavy to carry but high intimidation factor for sure. Later on I found out those big wheelguns were stoked with the same .38 Special SWC ammo which had been used in the previous K-frames for decades.

[MasS&W]

Later on I found out those big wheelguns were stoked with the same .38 Special SWC ammo which had been used in the previous K-frames for decades.

Thats interesting! I guess you can load a .38 as hot as hell and still be able to hold onto it in an N frame. Must make for lighting fast reloads too, with the .357 size ejector rod...

[yotatrd4x4]

There's lots of good opinions here and I am one of those who prefer the round butt because it's looks good and feels good but you can also get the round to square conversion grips to make it a square but too. I like the target square butt grips but when my wife shoots my 629-6 she can't handle the large grips and it's easier for her to use a hogue round butt grip. I like both butt voted for the round just because you can convert it to square butt to make it more user friendly.

[9.3X62AL]

No real preference of round- over square-butt on the S&W revolvers, regardless of frame size. Almost all of my revolvers get aftermarket grips of some kind, so the question devolves to fitting the grip to the frame in question--and that's seldom an issue with the Smiths. Colts.......whole 'nother story, and grips are far fewer and further between.

[EdS]

Other than Ahrends and Hogues, I've found very few wood grips for the N-frame RB revolvers. I'd like to find a source for S&W factory or aftermarket options. Thanks, Ed

[rromeo]

I generally prefer square butt. My 3" M65 is a notable exception.

[FergusonTO35]

Thats interesting! I guess you can load a .38 as hot as hell and still be able to hold onto it in an N frame. Must make for lighting fast reloads too, with the .357 size ejector rod...

The retired cop I talked to said the ammo was a +P 158 grain load from Federal and Remington. I've fired some of those before and they are pretty stout, but not .357 stout. In fact, my pet handload of 5.7 grains Accurate #5 under a 158 graind RNFP effectively duplicates it: 890 fps out my 4" S&W 10-5.

[H.Callahan]

The retired cop I talked to said the ammo was a +P 158 grain load from Federal and Remington. I've fired some of those before and they are pretty stout, but not .357 stout. In fact, my pet handload of 5.7 grains Accurate #5 under a 158 graind RNFP effectively duplicates it: 890 fps out my 4" S&W 10-5.
(Circa 1970s-early 1980s)
Initially, in my department we were allowed to carry anything we wanted. After a couple of officer involved shootings in the state (not our department, however), the mucky-mucks decided that for litigation reasons, we could carry whatever model we wanted, but it had to take one of the FBI loadings (158gr lead HP +P -- about 900-1000fps depending on the gun) available at the time. The department issued S&W ammo. So you saw a lot of the .357s loaded with the .38s. I carried a 6" Model 28 and had to load it with the .38s. After a couple of years, they modified the requirement that the gun had to have a 4" or less barrel. When that happened, I decided to downsize to a Model 66. It was lighter to carry, but I always did shoot the Model 28 better.

The switch to .38 ammo was strictly so if they got their butts in court, they could say "...but it is the same ammo that the FBI uses..." If the FBI had used .25acp, we probably would have been issued that. In my department, this was the first step from the old time, rough and tumble police force to the new, "modern", politically correct police force.

[John Allen]

I personally prefer the round butts in the N frame guns. I like the curve of the grip and it fits my hand better than the square butt.

[osteodoc08]

I've always prefered the square butt frames or a round but with a square butt conversion grip. It just feels better to me.

[yoter]

Square butt fits my hand best. Round butt is too small for me.

[FergusonTO35]

If using wood panel grips its square butt. If going for aftermarket grips then round butt. My favorite revolver grips of all are the square butt magma grips and the Pachmayr Compac round butt.

[Old School Big Bore]

I'm amazed that no one has said this but it depends on the barrel length. Regardless of frame & cylinder size, the round butt looks and works better with barrels 3 1/2" or shorter and the square butt looks & works better with 4" or longer barrels. I believe the flare, if any, at the butt of a square stock forms sort of a shelf when it's compressed into the palm by the weight & leverage of the longer barrel, helping to support the gun; look at the add-on shelves on old bullseye guns. I've shot all different revolver disciplines, and right now I shoot a match where revolver barrels are limited to four inches, and this thinking shows, in that with the 4" being on the dividing line, most of our revolvers wear stocks that mitigate away from square toward roundish, effecting essentially a compromise or hybrid. I have wide, square hands with average length fingers (drummer, not guitar or piano) and find the Gripper Professionals with the exposed backstrap instead of the air chamber of the original Grippers to be ideal on my 66, 686, 27, 29, etc. because they are all 4 & 5" guns. My 3" Bulldog has the Compac while the 4" has Presentations, and if I swap them they just look & feel awful. I have four 28s that will become 24s & 25s; if they get built as three inchers they'll get round butted and if four inch, they'll stay square and get Professionals.
So, long story short, this poll needs 'depends on barrel length' as a vote option.

[Combat Diver]

I agree with the above

round butt-J frames (do have a 2" Model 60 square butt but prefer RB here)
square butt-J frames with bbls 4" (M651)
round butt-K/L frames with 2-3" bbls for concealment
square butt-K/L frames with bbls 4" and over
square butt-N frames with 4"-8.375" bbls


CD

[Char-Gar]

I am OK with RB K frame revolvers, but detest RB N frame revolvers. I have Herretts make me RB to SB conversion grips to use on N frame RBs. Here are a couple of pics a 625 and a 629.

[Char-Gar]

It won't tame recoil very well if you have to get a grip that forces you to hold it higher in your hand, which is my main problem. I must be the only person who likes Magma service grips, I guess.

That is Magna and not Magma and you are not the only one that likes them. When accompanies by a grip adapter they make good shooting grips on N frame Smiths, providing you are not talking about magnum recoil.

[Char-Gar]

When it comes to J frames, the RB is all but useless for me as the distance between the backstrap and the trigger is too short. The old SB Js, are much easier for me to shoot, much easier.

[Petrol & Powder]

I voted for either but I feel a need to add a caveat: For barrels 3" or shorter RB and for 4" barrels I prefer a square butt grip.

For me, a 6" barreled revolver is a target gun or maybe a hunting gun. A 4" barrel is about as long as I want for carry gun. That extra 2" may be nice for more sight radius and a little more velocity but it's just not worth it to me in a carry gun. However, I'm not attempting to conceal a 4" barreled revolver, so a square butt is desirable for that type of use.

A 2"-3" barrel revolver is geared a bit more for concealment and the round butt is a desired compromise for that platform; at least for me. I still want a grip adaptor, boot grips or Eagle "Secret Service" grips with the round butt. I feel those combinations give me the best of both worlds between concealment and control with the round butt grip frame.

[Blackwater]

If you look at how your hand naturally wants to fold inward as if to grasp a pistol grip, it usually (for many folks if not most) forms into a curved contour and tapers from the top down, which is the exact opposite of how most revolver grips are made. K=frame Smiths are my favorite grips, and I prefer the RB's for the simple reason that the RB's give me more of a straight back trigger pull, or at least help a little in contributing toward that. The natural tendencies of any grip can be over-ridden in slow fire, but usually have a way of coming out in more rapid or instinctive shooting, and the RB's have proven just a bit better in my own testing. Getting the bottom of the grip back out of the way (being non-existent in part) induces fewer influences on the straight back trigger pull, and doesn't in any way aid in dealing with recoil. I got some Magna smooth walnut grips for my old M-19 once, and began sanding them a little at a time, and testing and handling them a lot with a critical eye toward fitting them to my hand as perfectly as possible, and in the end, reduced the front top of the grip just slightly, ovaling it in the process and narrowing it at the front. This gave me a little more of an index of deflection in instinctive shooting. I then ovaled the side contour, narrowing them at the bottom, and rounding off all edges significantly, and those wound up being the best grips as to fitting my hand that I've ever used. Yeah, they're unique, but they fit my hand, led my hand to the right grip instinctively while I kept my eye on whatever it was that I thought I might shoot, and handled recoil even BETTER than the original grips did. This was surprising, but I kept the contour at the top back of the grips pretty much as original, and only ovaled out the front for a better "feel" for deflection, and a very slightly better "feel" overall. In instinctive (unsighted) fire, the grips probably reduced my groups by @ 30-40%. It IS amazing what fitting grips to one's own hand by actual firing tests can do for our shooting. Everyone's hands are slightly different, and the "one size fits all" grips the factories HAVE to produce just never quite fits anybody exactly right.

Checkering is another thing that I've come to not like on revolver grips, in particular, and most pistols generally. It's pretty when well done, but if you grab a handgun quickly, which you're most likely to do when it's needed most badly, smooth grips of the right contour naturally re-seat themselves in your hand for all followup shots MUCH better than those with checkering, and thus, CAN be, and from my own experiments at least usually ARE, more conducive to better shooting. Nice figured woods do a really neat job of replacing the beauty of smooth grips, though. Just MHO, of course, but it's based on a considerable amount of testing. For SA grips, I've come full circle back to the Super Blackhawk and Colt grips as being best in my hands, and again, smooth wood only, with the stipulation that both really need a little (not much but a little) added girth at the top of the grips. Folks with larger or smaller hands will need to find their own "rules" for what works best by trying different things until the light bulb goes on, and they finally get a set that makes them say, "Hey! I think I could SHOOT this set of grips!" That seems to always be the Golden Moment in the search, and yes, it really IS worth "all that trouble." FWIW?

[Petrol & Powder]

Good comments Blackwater and I'd like to add a bit more.
Grips are a very individual thing and you are right that what works for one person may not work for another.

As for the smooth grip vs. checkering, that's a bit more complicated. I have both and have shot with both types extensively. They both have pros & cons and I find that choice to be a lot more situation specific.
For small revolvers that are geared towards concealment like the J-frame Smiths, I lean toward grips that lend themselves to concealment and that generally means some type of "boot grip" or factory grip panels and a Tyler grip adaptor. Those grips don't increase the bulk of the gun but I find checkering necessary on those small grips. I wish I could shoot them with smooth grip panels but I just cannot.
Smooth wooden grips do work for me on larger guns but I typically limit their use to guns meant to be concealed. One of my favorites is a 3" S&W K-frame with a round butt. The factory S&W combat grip on that gun is one of the best non-checkered grips I've ever found.

While I'm pontificating about grips :grin:, allow me to say that I have a preference for wooden grips but I'll use synthetic when they are the right tool for the job. Like Blackwater, I agree that manufactures attempt to make "one size fits all" but sometimes that one size works for me. I love the Ruger Service-Six but the factory grip just does not work for me, however the Pachmyer "gripper" model is a perfect fit for me on that gun. So don't be afraid to include synthetic grips in your search.