Revolver noise

[MBTcustom]

I have a question from the more experienced smiths here. I have always carried a S&W model 19 as my defensive/close-range piece when I am hunting. I keep it loaded with full house 357mags. However, I dread the day that I actually use it to dispatch a deer or something because it is so freaking loud!:veryconfu
I would rather shoot five shots out of my 300winmag without ear protection, than shoot just one shot from the model 19. I can shoot several times with the 300 and my ears quit ringing after a few hours, but one shot from the 357 leaves my ears ringing for days (at least two)
I believe that the problem is the gas that escapes from the gap between the cylinder and the barrel (end shake). My mod19 has a .009" gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. I know that's on the high side, but I have left it alone because it insures that I can fire 400 rounds without getting any binding while shooting dirty powders (OK maybe over-insures but if it aint broke don't fix it right?)
Anyway, I wonder if tightening up the end shake would help this baby out some for shooting without ear protection?
My first thought would be that any gap is going to sound about the same , but I thought I would ask someone else's opinion.
Just to clarify, I don't plan on shooting without ear protection on a regular basis. I am only concerned that one or two shots per year could damage my already questionable hearing, and anything I could do to reduce that problem would be a wise thing on my part. I always try to put in some ear protection, but there are times when there just isn't time for it.
Thanks fellers.

[justashooter]

i would suggest that you load it anyway you like for defense, but that you use a more moderate load for dispatching a downed animal. try lead wadcutters at 800 fps for something that will pierce a decent sized skull and do so quietly.

[MBTcustom]

Specifically, dose the endshake have anything to do with the noise of the pistol?

try lead wadcutters at 800 fps for something that will pierce a decent sized skull and do so quietly.
That's not a bad idea, but I have to keep 'er loaded with the good stuff because of the little pig problem we have here in Arkansas. I suppose I could Barney Fife it with a couple light ones in my pocket, but I just wondered if the endshake would make a difference.

[waksupi]

I doubt end shake is the problem. The .357 mag, is just LOUD! You should also own a .30 Carbine revolver, and you would no longer think the .357 is loud.

[MBTcustom]

That's what I thought. Oh well. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE here I come!
Still, I think I will get some washers and tune this baby up tighter just to see if it might reduce it a little.

[Joni Lynn]

Touch one of those off in a room or a car interior and then you'll really have hearing problems? What did I say??? Huh???
I'd suggest a lower pressure load. Snugging up the barrel/cylinder gap might help a small amount.

[MBTcustom]

Thank you mam. I am willing to do anything that might help even a little.
I could just carry a different gun, but I am best with my smith. Give me some earplugs and I'll knock over bowling pins @ 60 yards all day long, but dang it punishes my ears mercilessly!

[Joni Lynn]

357 is loud, if you want quiet get a revolver in 45acp. My 357 is the quickest way to see if I am close to getting a headache. A few shots out of my Python and I either start having fun or my head feeling as if it is about to explode.

[MtGun44]

Keep some ear muffs with the revolver. If you have time to grab them, great. If not,
se la vie. There is some evidence that the human ear can disconnect internally in
severe stress situations. More than a few people that were involved in gunfights report
no ear ringing or hearing loss when it would be expected if done "in cold blood". I wouldn't
want to count on it, but you might luck out. Keep the muffs handy.

I once chronoed a .357 load for a friend, IIRC 16 gr of 2400 and 158 gr JHP from a 2inch
Ruger Speed Six, under a range roof. . . . . . . with plugs and muffs. . . . . . . I fired two
shots and retired from the field. I let the owner fire the remaining 4 rounds while I stepped
back to about 20 yds away.

Bill

[geargnasher]

Don't count on it. I let seven full-house .45 ACPs go in very close quarters in a dire SD situation nearly ten years ago, my ears still ring to this day and sharp noises like hammer blows are painful, even though I never heard the shots. You make the choice ahead of time with a defensive weapon, life or ears. For working loads, get yourself a nice .45 Colt and load heavy boolits in it, put your shooting-side ear into your shoulder and stick a finger in the other one when you can plan ahead.

Gear

[Artful]

You have very high pressures with 357 - it will come out the cylinder gap and the muzzle and it will be loud - best bet is to change to a lower pressure loading and put in ear plugs.

[leftiye]

Setting the barrel back to reduce barrel/cylinder gap (adjust the headspace before you do this - er, while ye're at it) might make a noise reduction effect, though you might not be able to notice. Will make higher pressures, should reduce loads. The smaller the bore, the more unpleasant the report (sharper, hurts the ear more). A 44 is less upsetting to the ears, though the concussion may disorient you. Maybe a .45 colt? Lower pressures, bigger bore. Mo kick butt.

[Multigunner]

The OSS developed a rather sneaky form of silencer that required no modification for use with a standard S&W model 10.
The set up looked like a "Clamshell Holster" and you could wear the enclosed pistol on the belt as if it was a holstered side arm.
The secret was that the suppressor assembly and baffles were integral to the holster, which was actually made of stamped sheet steel rather than leather and was hinged along the spine with a stout "piano hinge" and latched by means of a strap that passed behind the exposed trigger guard like a safety strap.
Since the form fitting clamshell covered the cylinder and barrel completely no cylinder gap gases escaped.

I suppose that if one wished to sacrifice an old holster by testing whether firing the revolver while enclosed in the holster deadened the cylinder gap blast you might find it a useable tool for finishing off game.
A holster much longer than required for the barrel length could also allow muffling of the muzzle blast by close contact with the flesh and fur of the animal to be dispatched.

Other than that I've found a thick, preferably damp, towel wrapped around the pistol and gunhand does a pretty good job of muffling subsonic pistol shots up to .38 Special.
Caution if using a dry towel or other dry cloth, they can burst into flame long after the shot was fired and fragments can cause a brushfire.

[bruce drake]

has anyone decided to just tell him to carry a couple of foam earplugs in a case in his pocket. He's going to use it to dispatch a wounded animal so he has time to put the plugs in before he shoots.

I carry plugs for whenever I am going to shoot a firearm. I double up on the range as well for multiple shots. Tinnitis (ringing in the ears) is not a fun thing to have. I've been dealing with it for over 20 years and once the damage is done its not easy to right.

Bruce

[Rick Hodges]

35 years ago last January I was in a kitchen when 9 .357 Magnum rounds were fired from 3 S&W Model 19/66 4" revolvers in about 3 seconds. I was totally deaf for about a week. Today my ears ring constantly and I have very little high frequency hearing in my right ear. Wear the earplugs if you can.

[MBTcustom]

has anyone decided to just tell him to carry a couple of foam earplugs in a case in his pocket. He's going to use it to dispatch a wounded animal so he has time to put the plugs in before he shoots.

I carry plugs for whenever I am going to shoot a firearm. I double up on the range as well for multiple shots. Tinnitis (ringing in the ears) is not a fun thing to have. I've been dealing with it for over 20 years and once the damage is done its not easy to right.

I agree and concur whole heartedly, and I do carry earplugs. There are times that there is no time to insert them in my ears though, which means that there may come a day when I have to use it o-natural.
There have been several times when I'm sitting in the tree stand and I realize that I forgot to put the ear protection in my pocket. At that point, It really bugs me because if I need to use the pistol, its going to be a dire situation and not a practical one (ie a deer may need to be shot from three feet away with a 358winchester).
I started this as a gunsmithing question really just to satisfy my curiosity. I already have tinnitus setting in as I can hear ringing in my ears now just sitting here. I am a machinist by trade, and it kind of goes with the territory.
Anyway, I appreciate the comments. I think I may try to lay my hands on a .44mag someday and see how well it does.

[Dan Cash]

Tim,
Heavy bullets driven by slow powder are not quite so painful as the lighter bullet high performance loads in .357. 2400 behind a 180-200 grain cast slug is a real stopper and easier on the ears and gun.

Tightening endshake would, I think, tend to increase blast as it would increase the barrel- cylinder gap though I doube you would notice.

[MBTcustom]

Thanks for the tip Dan! I shoot only 200 grain slugs in my 357 but I have been using relatively fast powders. I'll try the slower ones and see what I find.

[canyon-ghost]

.357 magnum is loud and exceeds 100 meters. If you want quiet, go down to a 38 special load. There's a lot of difference between full house loads and good reloads. Understand just what you mean, 357 has a piercing report.

[MasS&W]

They sell haring protection that comes on a headband kind of deal, that I keep around my neck when driving through the woods, for easy access. Endshake really won't have any impact on whether you go deaf or not, though.

[MBTcustom]

I guess "endshake" is the wrong term. I meant "cylinder/barrel gap" but in this case its probably neither hear nor there. I will look into that fancy head gear you speak of. Thanks!

[lathesmith]

Heavy bullets driven by slow powder are not quite so painful as the lighter bullet high performance loads in .357. 2400 behind a 180-200 grain cast slug is a real stopper and easier on the ears and gun.

Yep, that mirrors my experience as well. Also, you didn't mention what barrel your 19 is wearing. In my experience, there is a very noticable difference in the blast levels experienced between a 2.5" tube and a 4- or 6- inch tube. If you have the 2.5 incher, try borrowing a buddy's 4 or 6 incher and see if you notice any difference--while wearing full hearing protection, of course!
I doubt very much that you would be able to tell the difference between a revolver with a .009 gap or a .004 gap; barrel length is going to be a lot more noticable.

lathesmith

[Dframe]

Carry a set of ear plugs in your pocket when hunting and put them in, if you need to use your Model 19 to dispatch an animal. Would only take seconds and they'll take up no room at all in your pocket

[paul h]

My 357 has a 0.005" barrel/cylinder gap, and it is still LOUD! A full dose of 2400 behind a 160 or 200 gr cast bullet and yes, it barks. If you want to quiet the gun, you're going to need to drop the intensity of your loads.

That is something to be said for the bigger bores, you can drive a heavier bullet at more sedate velocities to have the terminal performance of the smaller faster round, but without as much of a bark.

[MBTcustom]

My mod19 is wearing a 5" barrel.

[Multigunner]

That last image is of one of those shoot around a corner rigs, with a handgun mounted on a hinged framework and aimed by means of a camera and monitor setup.
The stuffed cat is there to camoflage the pistol. To the intended target it would look like a curious cat poking its head around the corner then boom.

I just remembered an article on a U S Army silenced revolver used on a limited basis by tunnel rats.
The revolver was a .38 IIRC. The silencer was a standard old style Maxim type.
They tried to get around the cylinder gap problem by hand fitting these with very nearly a zero gap.
When upgrading my 1851 replica I came very close to a zero gap.
I first had to turn the face of the cylinder to make it as near perfectly flat and 90 degrees from the axis as possible. Filing a bit from the rear face of the barrel lump set the barrel back enough to close the gap. I made a new cylinder latch as well.
The result was that you could not see daylight at the gap, and even a .001 shim could not enter. There was very little fouling on the cylinder face when fired, and it scrapped away cleanly at every shot. The tight gap caused no hang ups, because the mating surfaces were mirror smooth.
Despite this there was still a good deal of gas escape at the now invisible gap.
So I figure the tunnel rat revolver was still not that silent, but the Maxim suppressor would have prevented dirt being kicked up by muzzle blast, and there would be no visible muzzle flash to ruin night vision or give away position.

[Ed K]

Cannot help with a solution for the 357 but this is exactly why I have gone to 45 Colt in a trail gun. Even a very modest subsonic loading of a 45cal/250gr will do a lot of work.

[Sasquatch-1]

If you are in the field and have forgotten your ear plugs and have the time, take 2 bullets out of the gun and place them in your ears. They make suitable substitutions in a pinch. Otherwise you just have to decide if your hearing is more important then a stay in the hospital or a visit to the morgue.

Add me to the list of tinnitus sufferers. Mine was caused by a model 29 being discharged about 4' behind and to the left of me. Took several days to recover my hearing and have had the ringing ever since.