Never loaded shotshells; Please Advise

[Danderdude]

While I'm getting closer and closer to mastering metallic reloading, a unique situation has presented itself to me.

A neighbor is going out of state for a month and will be paying me to get his mail and feed his animals. He reloads 12ga turkey shoot loads on a Lee Load-All II and has invited me to use his press while he's out.

A year ago, I was also gifted some new primed Cheddite paper hulls and high brass plastic hulls.

While the cost of reloading small shot isn't much of a savings over factory shells, slugs and buckshot come out MUCH cheaper reloaded. I have no problem investing in the Lee 00 and 1oz slug molds for this opportunity.

My research has left some questions unanswered, so I ask you to school me, gentlemen:

1.) Can a Lee LA2 crimp a new paper hull?
2.) Can it crimp a new plastic hull?
3.) What type of crimp is ideal for a new paper hull?
4.) Will Unique provide at least mediocre performance in 12ga with 1 - 1.25oz projo weights?
5.) I plan on making a lifetime supply of buckshot (for fun and CQC/Self Defense) and slugs (for fun and more fun) in a single run. Can you recommend wads for this? I'm leaning toward Claybuster 12S0 for the slugs and have no current preference for the buckshot wads. Also, will one type of load work better in the paper than the plastic?
6.) I seem to swap and trade shotguns every few years and do not want high-pressure loads. Something that works in most smoothbores without requiring a modern gun is preferable.
7.) If there is any other information you have for me, please do not hesitate to share.

Thanks in advance!

[Ole]

What my gun likes with the Lee 1oz slug.

1x fired RP or WW cheap hulls (the ones you get with the cheap Walmart skeet ammo). I use RP because I have more of them.
WW209 primers
19 grains of Green Dot. I don't think you'd notice much of a difference if you used 20-21 grains of Unique.
Winchester SL wads. (pink wad)
1 20 gauge .125" nitro card at the base of the lee 1oz slug.
Normal fold crimp.

I've also made my first buckshot loads recently and had success. Check this thread (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=154058) for loads and targets. My gun is a 18.5 inch NEF Pardner Pump.

I've never worked with paper hulls so I can't help you there.

Good luck.

[35remington]

You need to get loading data for the slugs first, then buy the wad, not the other way around.

Given that it's very difficult to match the very tight patterns from buckshot obtained with Federal's Flite Control wad, buckshot handloading is probably best done as practice type loads using relatively light charges....in other words, handloads with 9 0 Buck or 8 00 Buck loads for economy and practice. The charges for both types weigh one ounce, and can use trapload type wads......but get the load first, not the wad!

For buckshot loads like this, the fast trap/skeet type powders work better and more economically than Unique. Like Red Dot, Promo, 700X, Clays, etc.

For self defense, buy some Flite Control.

I highly doubt you can load a lifetime's worth of slugs and buckshot on the Lee in a single sitting, unless you don't plan on shooting very much.

Here's an inexpensive couple of choices:

16.5 grains Red Dot (may also use other powders appropriate for 1 ounce trap loads)
WAASL wad (may also use WAAL grey wad; perform somewhat better than the Claybuster wads)
1 ounce Lee slug
Tapered interior Winchester or Remington trapload type case
Winchester primer (most others okay too)

around 1150 fps

For buckshot, same powder charge, WAA12, WT12, or Claybuster equivalent wads
9 0 buck in layers of three in wad
same powder charge, approximately same velocity in same type of shells.

Can't help you with the crimps. Haven't tried paper on the Lee. Regular 8 point crimps are fine with the above loads.

I have loaded and do load heavier buckshot loads, but if these are merely for practice there is no point in using anything heavy, as 8 or 9 holes are as good as 15. This makes the lead go farther, which is handy because they gobble up the buckshot fast if you get extravagant as to the number of buckshot per load.

More pain when shooting, too.

[turbo1889]

1.) Yes, but not as pretty as some more expensive presses.

2.) Yes.

3.) In my opinion roll crimp, but a six point star crimp works decent as well.

4.) Yes, but you may need to push anything less then 1-1/4oz. a little faster then a normal trap load velocity to get the deviation spread to tighten up, especially for slug loads that don't have the additional friction load of set-back that a shot load has.

5.)If you want life-time storage loads with paper hulls you will need to wax coat polish them by hand on the outside (paste car wash wax and sponge polishing them by had to form a thin sealing coat on outside of the paper) and seal the crimp top with wax or some other sealant as well. Un-coated paper hulls don't store as well as plastic so you have to make accommodation for that if you are storing for long periods of time. The 12S3 wad would probably serve you better for slugs since most do better with a sub-gauge size nitro card inside the wad under the slug and the 12S3 gives you the extra room for that with the Lee slugs and/or a 68 to 69 caliber round ball. The 12S3 as well as the next size up the 12S4 work great for buck shot loads as well either with the pellets stacked inside the wad or with the petals cut off. If you load any BP loads they work better in the paper than the plastic, other then that it is mainly a personal preference and you can usually load just a grain or two hotter in a paper hull and get just a little bit more velocity while staying within the same safe pressure limits. Paper seems to have sort of a shock absorbing behavior compared to plastic that lets you put in just a little bit more powder and get just a little bit more velocity with the same pressure levels for some reason compared to plastic.

6.) If you want to keep your pressure levels towards the low end look for load data that does not exceed 10-K pressure levels and preferably isn't much above 8-K pressure levels. People who shoot smokeless in the old guns made for BP before smokeless was used cherry pick the few and far between loads in the 7 to 8 K pressure range. So long as you aren't shooting some really old antique guns you shouldn't have to be that careful.

7.) The Lee Load All II is a decent cheap press that will get the job done and will make good loads with minimal expense. But there will be some annoyances/inconveniences like the fact that the charge bar leaks a little powder every so often onto the loading bench and it isn't easy to empty the powder and shot hoppers. So long as your willing to put up with those little things it should serve you well, if you have a perfectionist personality that is easily irritated by the little things and they drive you nuts then you should look for a more expensive press probably a P&W-375 or something along those lines.

[shotman]

couple things
One --- would try some small shot for a while . buck shot is little different to load. and stay away from the lee mold . buckshot dont do well with a shotcup . Then you will not load many shells after using the Lee LA
next most buckshot loads use different powder - not like small shot
load book is your friend

[UNIQUEDOT]

1.) Can a Lee LA2 crimp a new paper hull?
2.) Can it crimp a new plastic hull?

Yes it can and it does it much better than the results from a mec press (new hulls only) i have experimented for years with the mec brass crimp starters and recently with the new mec plastic starters and they simply are not capable of producing new hull loads as nice as the load all does.

I have loaded a couple hundred of the new paper cheddites on a load all and they turn out really well. I've loaded about four thousand of the new cheddite plastic hulls on the load all and they turn out looking as good as the better factory target loads if you use the 6 point crimp starter.


I'm leaning toward Claybuster 12S0 for the slugs

The claybuster 12so will not work with slugs. You need the Federal 12so for slugs. I confirmed my suspicion by contacting claybuster and they told me their copy had the internal ribs on the petals and would not work with slugs. I have however loaded a lot of slugs using the federal oem wad with the Lee slug and Cheddite hulls.



one type of load work better in the paper than the plastic?

The cheddite paper and plastic hulls have identical base wads and case capacities and therefore load data is 100 % interchangeable between them. The paper hulls will give slightly less pressure because the crimp will open easier. Confirm this by checking the base wads to make sure nothing has changed since i last used the paper hulls though.