Another Marlin 1894 question

[fatelk]

I hope you all don't mind another question about this old rifle. Please don't laugh at me too much. I was wondering if anyone knew how much tension or binding is normal between the barrel and the magazine tube.

If anyone remembers my other thread about this rifle, I have never been able to get much accuracy out of it. I had blamed it on the rollstamp dents in the bore, but apparently those are pretty common on Marlins and don't have a huge effect on accuracy. I tried hand-lapping the bore a little, and when I reassembled the rifle I realized there was a serious issue with the fit of the mag tube. I lined it up in the front magazine band but it would bind against the barrel before it would go into the receiver. The only way to get it to slip into the receiver was to use a lot of force.

I remembered having trouble getting it apart. The tube is straight. The barrel doesn't appear bent. After looking it over every which way I filed the tube down where it interfered; took quite a bit and I'm sure I filed halfway through the mag tube. I assembled it with just slight tension. I've shot it a couple times now and it does much better, but I'm also using bigger bullets.

I tried some unsized .432 bullets that did OK, and today I shot some .431 sized bullets. I shot three 5-shot groups at 50 yards, 1.1" to 1.4" (one had a flier), but when I went to 100 yards not so good (still a lot better than before). Also- no leading.

Is this tension common on these? Is it more likely that the tube has been replaced or something? Am I missing something obvious here? (Feel free to laugh if I am)
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/fatelk/bullets-1.jpg

[Gtek]

Is there not a machine cut on the bottom of barrel forward of receiver. I can not tell which front end you have by single picture. Front band may be over tightened and pulling mag tube up if installed in picture. If you find all ok would not bother me on mine to wrap some crocus on dowel and polish clearance in touch spot. More info? Gtek

[btroj]

If you don't mind speinding the money get McPhersons book "Accurizing the factory rifle". He has A huge amount of info on Marlins.
Some is pretty involved, some is very simple and basic. I used some black RTV silicone between the barrel and tube on my 336. Don't know if it helped but it sure didn't hurt.

[TXGunNut]

Please don't apologize for asking questions about Marlins. Many of us could post about them all day, others will read every post. I would have tried bending the tube because filing is reversible only by component replacement. I also feel a quality levergun like your Marlin should be given time to cool between shots, just like a bolt gun.

[fatelk]

I didn't think of bending it. A slight bend might have been all it needed. It seems to work fine now anyhow.

The barrel has the flat at the bottom, but it was hitting very hard forward of that. Here's another photo of the front of the receiver.

I'm looking forward to getting some time to tinker with it a little more and finding the best load. I read a lot of good things about the Ranch Dog molds, and I see a couple Accurate mold designs that appeal to me. I'm about talked into a gas check design, and particularly like the 3GC/3 non GC option for the RD mold, but I'm just not a fan of tumble lubing.

I sure don't know why this was binding so bad, but it seems OK now so I guess I won't worry about it.
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm274/fatelk/1894001-1.jpg

[wv109323]

I recently had the stock and fore end off my 1894 Marlin to finish the stock in Linseed oil. Mine is a .44 Mag. I had considerable clearance between the mag tube and the entire barrel.
I have a RD mold for the .44 and am not too impressed with it. It is a GC 240gn. 2 cavity mold. I sized the first bullets to .430 (RCBS Lubri-sizer)and they did not shoot well. I also had problems with the gas checks staying on the bullet. I bought some aluminum gas checks off E-bay to try. He actually sent me two sizes and neither would stay on the bullet base when the bullet was sized.
I pressed some of the gas checks on the bullet base and left the bullets un-sized. They are running around.431-.432 diameter. I have yet to test the unsized bullets to see how they shoot. The .430 bullets with 9.5 Gns. of Unique shot around 5 inches at 50 yards.

[TXGunNut]

I use the Hornady GC's and in must cases they do fine unless there's an issue with the base, generally user error. I didn't like the idea of tumble lube and the Lee sizing system but they're quick, easy, effective and cheap for some boolits I'm casting.

[beagle]

I rebarrelled a M1894 with a fast twist .44 Mag barrel and the gunsmithhad to make a releif mill for this clearance.

I like to be able to take my levers and grasp the tube with two fingers and get a little click when I shake it. This way, nothing's binding./beagle

[Rrusse11]

I rebarrelled a M1894 with a fast twist .44 Mag barrel and the gunsmithhad to make a releif mill for this clearance.

I like to be able to take my levers and grasp the tube with two fingers and get a little click when I shake it. This way, nothing's binding./beagle

I've been tuning up a 44Mag CB, 24" oct barrel, and the mag tube IMO is one of the critical areas. First step is to relieve the forearm so that it's not binding the barrel, not only around the barrel, but at the receiver and nose as well. It should float. Then the forearm nose should NOT be touching the barrel either. I put a packer under the tube so that the forearm, now just a touch loose can't be pushed up.
At the muzzle end a small o ring around the hanger post and under the magazine tube gives a soft mount. File the end of the tube where it slides in to the receiver for slight relief. Screws should be firm, but don't be tempted to wind 'em right down, balance the two on the forearm for equal pressure side to side.
As beagle points out, there should be just a little give in it all. As the barrel heats, it'll move, let the tube and it's mounts also slide a little.
Then the grouping itself, it'll make a big difference how you use the front rest. I prefer to get the receiver as close to the bag as possible for comfort and steadiness. Think about the pressure on the end of the barrel if you have it resting just under the front sight.
I've got a load that'll put 3 shots into a ragged hole at 50yds when I pay attention and take my time, letting the gun "relax" between shots. (11.7gr Herco, Fed150, 240gr RF plain base sized .431, Starline brass at 1.270", COAL 1.695") Three quick shots usually has one flyer at an inch or so from the double large hole, sometimes the first shot, sometimes the third.
Load 'em long! All the 44mags I've owned will chamber 1.700", neck size the brass, tweak the cartridge lifter so that you can get the boolit into the throat. The Marlin 94 CAN shoot, but it takes some tweaking. The barrel band set up on the carbine is a little different, but the same principles apply.
McPherson beds his forends with silicone I believe, and Paco Kelly has some good tips on getting the Marlin to shoot as well.
Start off slow, one tweak at a time, and you'll hit a sweet spot.
Cheers,
R*2

[EDK]

Do some reading over at marlinowners.com. Glenn Fryxell's article on 1894 MARLINS over at lasc.us...and the others too!...will enlighten you and save a boat load of components.

Conventional wisdom for MARLINS is oversized, hard alloy, gas check and high velocity with THE RIGHT BOOLIT. I run my 44s at .432 and lube with LLA per RANCH DOG's tutorials. I'm going to get the 240 grain mould, but I LOVE the TLC 432 265 so much that I bought the NOE plain base clone for my pistols. Generic plain base ammo for the pistols and Cowboy Action Shooting; rifle specific for more serious shooting.

You can get accuracy out of a lever gun...get the McPherson book and get to work OR pay a potfull of money to him or someone of that ability to tune your gun. It's like the old cliche about auto racing "How fast are you willing to pay for." I'm just not that concerned above "minute of coyote, deer or whatever is bothering me" at the 100 yards or less ranges these guns are meant for. I've got a SHILOH SHARPS, an M1A, and an AR15 to fill the accuracy and long distance needs. The lever guns or the Sharps don't disturb "little old ladies of either sex" like the black rifles do.

Is curmudgeon a polite way to say crabby old SOB? Why does SWMBO keep calling me Woodrow?

:redneck::cbpour::2gunsfiring_v1:

[Gtek]

That is what mine looks like, 78 model. The cut is 4 5/8" long. I can get a doubled sheet of notebook paper between mine. I am with the fellows on suggestion of searching out info, you will also learn stuff you did not even think about. Marlin site is a good place for material, although you will have to deal with a lot of "J' word freshman. There are no silly questions, Different breed of cat in the Boolit woods! Gtek

[fatelk]

Thanks for all the info guys. Rrusse11, especially good information. I will keep tinkering when I get time.

All I'm really after is some usable accuracy; 3 or 4 moa with no leading. Better would be nice of course, so I will continue tinkering, but I think I'm about there for what I've been looking for.

I have plenty of other accurate rifles if I want to shoot little tiny targets a long ways away.

[CanuckWR]

fatelk, I am on the exact same quest with my 44mag 1894. You are pretty much asking the same questions I am thinking about asking. So thank you!

[Rrusse11]

Thanks for all the info guys. Rrusse11, especially good information. I will keep tinkering when I get time.

All I'm really after is some usable accuracy; 3 or 4 moa with no leading. Better would be nice of course, so I will continue tinkering, but I think I'm about there for what I've been looking for.

I have plenty of other accurate rifles if I want to shoot little tiny targets a long ways away.

Fatelk,
You're very welcome. Some points about my particular rifle that I should probably include.
"Ballard" rifling rather than microgroove, and from memory it's a sloooow twist of 1:38. Just loaded some of RD's TLC 265gr boolits.
Got some at the "popgun" level of 10.7gr Herco, and then 20gr of Alliant 300MP. I'll be interested to see how they stabilise at the lower load level.
Cheers,
R*2

[W.R.Buchanan]

FE: Rrussel's comments are pretty much right on, especially the points about the fore-end needing to float.

Also tweeking the mag tube may need to be done to get it so it doesn't interfer with the barrel.

The kicker on these guns seems to be the 1/38 twist barrel. The only way I have seen to get any accuracy at all is to push the boolits faster. 1600+ seems to work well with 240-260 gr booltis.

Slower and the accuracy falls off. BUT, minute of beer can is all you really need to plink or shoot gophers at 25-50 yds with iron sights anyway.

I have read many reports of accuracy from these guns. The best I have heard of, (<1" @75yds) used a 1-16 twist barrel. My guns are both are 2" guns at 50 yds. However shooting Cowboy Silhouette you don't need better, 2" at 50 is 8" at 200.

When I get to my .44 carbine takedown project I will be replacing or relining the barrel to 1/20 twist.

My .44 rifle will stay as it is, as there is little to be gained by fiddleing with the barrel. Especially for my uses of the guns.

Randy